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OfflineTwirling
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Belief Vs. Faith Vs. Naturally Feeling Secure About Life
    #2448910 - 03/18/04 09:48 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

It's seems to me that quite a few popular religions focus on the idea of faith and the importance of a belief structure. The first think many people think of when they ponder the afterlife is "What did the person beleive in?". It's silly to think that a person's entire life comes down to what they did or did not believe. Some people find comfort in having a dogmatic belief system because it makes them feel secure.


Then there is the idea of faith. Believing in something even though you have doubts about it. Acknowledging that the question still remains, but feeling as though you have an answer.

Doesn't it seem like the whole point of the focus of a belief system is simply to repress or deal with the fear of death? Furthermore, doesn't it seem like part of religion's purpose should be to get people more comfortable with death in a more natural way?

I've come to just being at peace with death so I can actually live. I've had plenty of mind-shattering experinces which far exceeded anything I could have imagined, so it almost seems like for something that intensely positive to exist, things are more positive than we realize (not aruging this point, but this is how it feels). I've also had some horrible, gut wrenching experinces which made me pray to deities I've given up faith in just to end it. Isn't it interesting how positive experinces make you realize how powerful we all are, while intensely negative ones send us back to a submissive form


I certainly have my theories about life, and where things are headed, and what the greater picture(s) is, but to me, they're just theries and ideas. I've given up faith in any (g)God because I'd rather have faith in people, and in myself.  :yesnod: :3rd_eye:


--------------------
The very nature of experience is ineffable; it transcends cognitive thought and intellectualized analysis. To be without experience is to be without an emotional knowledge of what the experience translates into. The desire for the understanding of what life is made of is the motivation that drives us all. Without it, in fear of the experiences what life can hold is among the greatest contradictions; to live in fear of death while not being alive.



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OfflineFrog
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Re: Belief Vs. Faith Vs. Naturally Feeling Secure About Life [Re: Twirling]
    #2449970 - 03/19/04 01:56 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

After enough of you saying the same thing, and being honest with myself, I think I have to agree that part of what motivates us to "find religion" is fear of death and what will happen to us when we die.

I also agree that once we deal with the idea of death, we can get on with living.

I started having major panic attacks the exact next day after I started law school. That first panic attack sent me into a series of panic attacks that lasted for about 3 years. I spent the first 6 weeks of law school in emergency rooms, hooked up to machines, thinking I was dying.

To make a long story short, it started with a feeling of being out of control, and turned into a fear of dying. By finally accepting death as a part of life, I was able to stop the panic attack syndrome, and live again, without fear. I don't have panic attacks any more.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Offlineshaggy101
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Re: Belief Vs. Faith Vs. Naturally Feeling Secure About Life [Re: Twirling]
    #2450510 - 03/19/04 04:23 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I only have faith in what I know.

I have trouble having faith in humans though, although I am one.
Sometimes it just comes down to numbers, how many times ive seen humans as worthless vehicles of hate,
vs.
how many times a stranger will smile at me,
or post something that blows me away in S&P :grin:

Still I have not been happy with my race as of late..


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OfflineTwirling
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Re: Belief Vs. Faith Vs. Naturally Feeling Secure About Life [Re: Frog]
    #2450902 - 03/19/04 09:52 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Frog said:
To make a long story short, it started with a feeling of being out of control, and turned into a fear of dying.  By finally accepting death as a part of life, I was able to stop the panic attack syndrome, and live again, without fear.  I don't have panic attacks any more.




That's a very good analogy.


Quote:

shaggy101 said:
I only have faith in what I know.

I have trouble having faith in humans though, although I am one.
Sometimes it just comes down to numbers, how many times ive seen humans as worthless vehicles of hate,
vs.
how many times a stranger will smile at me,
or post something that blows me away in S&P :grin:

Still I have not been happy with my race as of late..




There is no doubt in my mind that people are capable of very evil things, which is what makes the kindness seem so much more amazing. I guess I have faith in the ability of people who care to do positive things, whatever it is, whereas people who are cruel are often just bitter from their experinces and such..... and then there are people who are just plain mean.

My point being that it takes a lot of effort to make a difference whereas it's easy for people to be evil. It's reassuring to see people who try their best to change things.


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Invisible2Experimental
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Re: Belief Vs. Faith Vs. Naturally Feeling Secure About Life [Re: Twirling]
    #2451422 - 03/19/04 01:52 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

"It's silly to think that a person's entire life comes down to what they did or did not believe.
Some people find comfort in having a dogmatic belief system because it makes them feel secure."


Well in reality life really does come down to what we do or do not beleive, as im sure you know we shape the world we percieve from our beleifs concious, or unconciously. Some people DO find it comforting to have a dogmatic beleif system because it makes them feel secure, yes, but others realize a deeper truth that can only come from personal experience and exposure to these things, and they DONT find comfort, rather at times they find themselves lost and searching for the truth and many times give up search and take the "easy" ride out of life....


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OfflineTheShroomHermit
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Re: Belief Vs. Faith Vs. Naturally Feeling Secure About Life [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2456348 - 03/21/04 04:04 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

How do we know what we know?
Very often people will not use proper foundations when choosing what they think it true. Faith usually requires a person to believe in something without question and often without reasoning. There is also logic, which I favor because it allows me to communicate with other rational minds. It is also very common for people on both sides to be totally clueless when asked to explain how they know what they know. Faithful people usually take the less thoughtfull approach, you'll usually get a "I just know" of state a self-supporting beleif that only works within it's structure. Logical minds get bogged down too; some look for a concrete and undeniable absolute truth to base everything else on, others in the fact that it's impossible to tell for sure what is percieved from reality and what was created internally. What I can suggest is to have ideas instead of beliefs; people die over beliefs... but ideas can change with reasoning. Unfortunately, there is no good way to convince people who have created hard personal reality "shells" to end this vicious cycle. You might as well try to convince them they don't exist, then to challenge there belief structure.

"God told me so (or any other self-supporting beleif)"


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OfflineTwirling
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Re: Belief Vs. Faith Vs. Naturally Feeling Secure About Life [Re: TheShroomHermit]
    #2456891 - 03/21/04 11:48 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

TheShroomHermit said:
What I can suggest is to have ideas instead of beliefs; people die over beliefs... but ideas can change with reasoning. /quote]

I agree. And unfortuntly, for a lot of people, they're so scared of challenging their own beliefs that it can cause them to get quite defensive.


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