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Invisiblemr crisper
.

Registered: 07/25/00
Posts: 928
beliefs
    #571898 - 03/06/02 10:32 PM (15 years, 26 days ago)

this word -belief- seems to popular these days. if i may be so indulgent -
to believe in something is to lock down your mind, to solidify it, to try and make it set like concrete.
doing so fights against change, prevents growth and evolution.
and the idea that things change is one of the few we can be sure about, so why try and block it?
by locking our minds into a belief, it creates conflict when we are confronted with others who entertain different beliefs....jews vs muslims vs christians for a start.
the greater one clings to ones belief the greater the conflict will be.
why conflict? it creates change, forces change, forces us to learn and grow.
it forces us to let go of our limiting beliefs and continue becoming whatever we are to be.
rather than beliefs, entertain theories, theories can be added to, improved and discarded as necessary. grasping onto beliefs just gives life the opportunity to give you a good kicking.


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Offlineiangato
enthusiast
Registered: 01/30/02
Posts: 220
Loc: maine, USAma
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
Re: beliefs [Re: mr crisper]
    #571964 - 03/06/02 11:56 PM (15 years, 26 days ago)

it's my belief that poop doesn't taste good but hey, indulge all you want pal. adios. peace.


--------------------
a blurry dot dances among the shadows
bends the light
and fizzles into my pink and glowing mind

-ian gato


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Invisiblemr crisper
.

Registered: 07/25/00
Posts: 928
Re: beliefs [Re: iangato]
    #571986 - 03/07/02 12:20 AM (15 years, 26 days ago)

does that mean you've tasted it?
did you form this belief from just one snapper?
maybe the next one will be better


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Anonymous

Re: beliefs [Re: mr crisper]
    #571988 - 03/07/02 12:21 AM (15 years, 26 days ago)

You've prompted me to quote from one of my favorite authors:

I DO NOT BELIEVE ANYTHING

...It seems to be a hangover of the medieval Catholic
era that causes most people, even the educated, to
think that everybody must "believe" something or
other, that if one is not a theist, one must be a
dogmatic atheist, and if one does not think Capitalism
is perfect, one must believe fervently in Socialism,
and if one does not have blind faith in X, one must
alternatively have blind faith in not-X or the reverse
of X.

My own opinion is that belief is the death of intelligence.
As soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort, or
assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that
aspect of existence. The more certitude one assumes,
the less there is to think about, and a person sure
of everything would never have any need to think
about anything and might be considered clinically
dead under current medical standards, where the absence
of brain activity is taken to mean that life has
ended.

...any grid we use to organize our experience of
the world is a model of the world and should not
be confused with the world itself.

Belief in the traditional sense, or certitude, or
dogma amounts to the grandiose delusion, "My current
model" - or grid, or map, or reality tunnel - "contains
the whole universe and will never need to be revised."

...when dogma enters the brain, all intellectual
activity ceases.


----------
The preceeding are excerpts from the preface to "Cosmic Trigger"
by Robert Anton Wilson


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Offlinegnrm23
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/30/99
Posts: 6,481
Loc: n. e. OH, USSA
Last seen: 2 months, 5 days
Re: beliefs [Re: mr crisper]
    #572396 - 03/07/02 12:38 PM (15 years, 26 days ago)

"give us this day our daily faith
but deliver us from our beliefs"
~
(alan w watts)


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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OfflineTannis
ZoneTrooper
Registered: 12/13/01
Posts: 508
Loc: MD.USA
Last seen: 14 years, 9 days
Re: beliefs [Re: mr crisper]
    #572402 - 03/07/02 12:41 PM (15 years, 26 days ago)

Belief is a shield that shuts out everything you don't want in your being. If you believe universal truths that benefit everyone then I think thats cool. It makes the glass half full instead of being disappointingly half empty. I think that whatever the sum total of existance is----exists with a choice. Do you want the positive or do you want the negative. Belief will show you the one---while shielding you from the other.


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Invisiblemr crisper
.

Registered: 07/25/00
Posts: 928
Re: beliefs [Re: Tannis]
    #572749 - 03/07/02 07:59 PM (15 years, 25 days ago)

if i am following your drift, i agree with you to a point.
but sooner or later, we start looking beyond the shadowplay of opposites...positive and negative, black and white, looking for harmony and deeper understanding.
im no christian, but i recollect the bible reporting christ as saying something like you must be as a child to enter the kingdom of heaven, i take that to mean full of awe and wonderment with no preconceived ideas or beliefs - an open mind.
if you are peeping out from under a shield, its no worries...we all have our own pace.


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Offlineazzid
Neuro Engineer
Registered: 02/11/02
Posts: 39
Loc: Sydney AUS
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
Re: beliefs [Re: mr crisper]
    #573076 - 03/08/02 01:38 AM (15 years, 25 days ago)

I like RAW's statement "My only firm belief is that we should not hold firm beliefs"


--------------------
"Reality is an illusion caused by lack of shrooms" - All posts are fictional - Read at your own risk


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OfflineTannis
ZoneTrooper
Registered: 12/13/01
Posts: 508
Loc: MD.USA
Last seen: 14 years, 9 days
Re: beliefs [Re: mr crisper]
    #573453 - 03/08/02 03:39 PM (15 years, 25 days ago)

I agree....that's my point partly....belief can protect if it is placed in a universal truth....but if it is placed in a self centered idealism....it can truly blind a person....


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OfflineskaMariaPastora
Utopiate
Registered: 03/15/01
Posts: 443
Loc: MA
Last seen: 14 years, 25 days
Re: beliefs [Re: ]
    #574300 - 03/09/02 04:37 PM (15 years, 24 days ago)

"To think for yourself you must question authority and learn how to put yourself in a state of vulnerable, open-mindedness; chaotic, confused, vulnerability to inform yourself. Think for yourself. Question authority"
-Tim Leary


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: beliefs [Re: Tannis]
    #574415 - 03/09/02 07:08 PM (15 years, 24 days ago)

...belief can protect if it is placed in a universal truth...
Umm, universal truths are beliefs. They are not really universal nor truths in that everyone can agree upon these things. So you are trading the word belief for universal truth, but it is the same thing when used in this context.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinepoopship
newbie
Registered: 02/26/02
Posts: 25
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
Re: beliefs [Re: Swami]
    #575448 - 03/11/02 02:21 AM (15 years, 22 days ago)

hey folks

im new around here, but i think i'll be making some posts pretty regularly, this seems like a good bunch of people. this post caught my eye because i just had to read something about the fixation of belief for my philosophy class. I can't think of the author, but what he was basically saying is that we have beliefs because we have doubts. only when we doubt do we search for a belief, and then once a belief is found to take the place of the doubt, we no longer doubt and just believe. so the trick isn't just simply to get rid of beliefs, but to quit doubting. only then can you be at peace with all around you and see the one in everything you do. but hey, im no expert, im as lost as anybody else, just trying to provide another viewpoint.

"reaching out to embrace whatever may come"
poopship


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OfflineAmoeba665
strange
Registered: 05/24/00
Posts: 275
Loc: a hidden microutopia at t...
Last seen: 4 years, 9 months
Re: beliefs [Re: mr crisper]
    #575487 - 03/11/02 03:27 AM (15 years, 22 days ago)

i shall merely do the lazy thing and quote from the tool "aenima" album

Every time a scientist, philosopher, artist, or athlete pushes our thresholds to new ground the entire race evolves. Ritual Magik is a system of disciplines and exercises aimed at activating parts of the mind we might normally never use (about 85%). Through this system a better understanding of ourselves is attained. No true Ritual Magician has ever sacrificed life, drank goat's blood, or taken part in any other stupid urban legend ritual. This sort of behavior is left to the pyschotic, dogmatic, fundamentalist believers you see on your T.V. everyday letting off bombs and killing people in the name of God. Beliefs are dangerous. Beliefs allow the mind to stop functioning. A non-functioning mind is clinically dead. Believe in nothing...


well, i guess i can add a little.. i agree with poopship. the problem is that we need to be able to separate true religious belief and faith from blind belief in dogma. quite hard in a society that oozes dogma from every orifice and crack. but if you can first find in yourself true faith, then you will be able to pursue true religious studies without feeling to urge to fall victim to dogma.


--------------------
---


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OfflineTannis
ZoneTrooper
Registered: 12/13/01
Posts: 508
Loc: MD.USA
Last seen: 14 years, 9 days
Re: beliefs [Re: Swami]
    #575618 - 03/11/02 09:17 AM (15 years, 22 days ago)

Universal truths are what works...no matter what your "system" or religion is....


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: beliefs [Re: Tannis]
    #575702 - 03/11/02 11:39 AM (15 years, 22 days ago)

There are many books espousing "universal truths" that cannot be tested in any way, which is what I based my objection to your post on. For example:

"When the student is ready, the teacher will appear."

"You always get exactly what you need."

"All prayers are answered, you just may not like the asnwer."

These are meaningless tautologies frequently bandied about as 'truths"

Now perhaps you meant something entirely different. Please give an example.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: beliefs [Re: Swami]
    #575727 - 03/11/02 12:13 PM (15 years, 22 days ago)

There are universal truths, but they are verifiable mathematically, logically or
scientifically (ie. the value of pi, hydrogen has the lowest atomic weight of any
element, etc.).

Now, as far as the previous examples that you have given, I agree with you.
If a belief cannot be verified, how can it be claimed to be a universal truth?


Edited by Anonymous (03/11/02 12:17 PM)


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Offlineseeker
Curator ofBarbaricRefinery

Registered: 03/22/02
Posts: 128
Loc: between Here and There
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
Re: beliefs [Re: ]
    #587519 - 03/23/02 07:37 PM (15 years, 9 days ago)

There can be, at this time, no such thing as a universal truth.
How can there be? A truth is the best posible answer to question when all curently availble infomation has been examined. We have yet to complete a study of our own planet, so how can we propose to make judgements on a universal scale?
There are many here who are quick to point out the "evils" of personal ego, but what of our ego as a speceis. Is it not arrogant on our part to decree that we have found the axioms of the infinite black when we have yet to truely leave the surface of the rock we were born on?

Please feel free to build a belief structure that make sense to you, but I would caution those that do so to use screws instead of a welding torch and and make it as flexible as posible, because, as most of us have come know, when it comes time to make changes you don't want to have tear it down and start from scratch.

I personaly hold no beliefs, but I've got a pretty good idea.


--------------------
In a state of anarchy every individual is their own kingdom.

Thou art God (but so am i :wink:)


Edited by seeker (03/23/02 07:39 PM)


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OfflinecHeMiCaLoRaNgE
journeyman

Registered: 03/14/02
Posts: 51
Loc: Saskatoon, SK., Canada
Last seen: 15 years, 9 days
Re: beliefs [Re: seeker]
    #587537 - 03/23/02 08:06 PM (15 years, 9 days ago)

you have never spoken such an untrue statement, no offence intended. The ego is evil, you think that just because 3 quarters of the world believe something that it is true, you are limiting your growth, we need a paradigm shift. your ego is fights the truth, the truth that all knowledge is already in our spirits, the knowledge comes from god and our past life experiences, intuition is the spirit. If you learn nothing from this, I will only ask you to do one thing. love yourself, accept your faults, and above all clear your mind and listen instead of limiting your beliefs inside you overcrowded, egotistical mind, once again no offence intended, i do not blame you for thinking the way you do, most of them do. It is only my will to help you


--------------------
<+> wOrLd PhIlOsOpHy CaN OnLy bE UnDeRsToOd ThRoUgH aStRaL aWaKeNiNg<+>


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OfflinecHeMiCaLoRaNgE
journeyman

Registered: 03/14/02
Posts: 51
Loc: Saskatoon, SK., Canada
Last seen: 15 years, 9 days
Re: beliefs [Re: ]
    #587544 - 03/23/02 08:17 PM (15 years, 9 days ago)

belief is the death of intelligence , words spoken with the wisdom of the spirit. anyways what the heck are words anyway anyway, fhwoerieroeooioijrjherois, does that mean anything to you, my point exactly. one day if we survive this worldly chaos we won't need them anymore, we will all be one again with God and our spirits.


--------------------
<+> wOrLd PhIlOsOpHy CaN OnLy bE UnDeRsToOd ThRoUgH aStRaL aWaKeNiNg<+>


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InvisibleIn(di)go
People of the sun.
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/30/00
Posts: 8,152
Loc: Cologne, Germany
Re: beliefs [Re: seeker]
    #587546 - 03/23/02 08:24 PM (15 years, 9 days ago)

I personaly hold no beliefs, but I've got a pretty good idea.

Thou art God (but so am i)


amen to that


--------------------


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