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Samlet
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Would immortality cause the loss of consciousness?
#23788346 - 10/31/16 11:52 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Something I was thinking about recently was time and consciousness, time is relative to whatever its related to, for example a human being, living 80 to 100 years of age would feel that that's quite a long time, as that is the span of our lives, just like how a fly lives for about a day (I think) and that fly must think it's life is just as long, or a turtle living 400 years would most likely believe it's life is of normal length and so its consciousness takes in the time it's lived. So, would, in theory, being immortal, living forever, mean you eventually lose consciousness? As you live forever and never die, there's no relative time your brain is used to, such as when you're a child, time goes very slow because you haven't lived too long, but the older you get the faster time gets, forgive me if this is hard to understand the point of what im trying to get to but it's not an easy thing to explain.
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dodgem
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Re: Would immortality cause the loss of consciousness? [Re: Samlet]
#23788428 - 10/31/16 12:19 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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It is an interesting concept to think about for sure. And your time going slowly when younger vs. time going faster when older idea seems flawed. It may seem like time moves at different speeds, but it really doesn't.
Does your immortality include being in the same human body for the duration of forever?
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Samlet
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Re: Would immortality cause the loss of consciousness? [Re: dodgem]
#23788542 - 10/31/16 01:02 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Let's say in this case it does, same body, same being, same person essentially, as if someone like you or me were to somehow never be able to die.
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viktor
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Re: Would immortality cause the loss of consciousness? [Re: Samlet] 1
#23789392 - 10/31/16 05:55 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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You are already immortal
-------------------- "They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."
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sudly
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Re: Would immortality cause the loss of consciousness? [Re: Samlet] 1
#23789398 - 10/31/16 05:56 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Time doesn't go faster as you age, it's merely your perception of it that changes.
E.g. When you're 2 years old 1 year is 50% of you life. When you're 100, 1 year is 1% of your life.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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phio


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Re: Would immortality cause the loss of consciousness? [Re: Samlet]
#23789629 - 10/31/16 07:15 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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After a number of repetitive cycles, you'd wish you probably could. No reflection on brain development I see... You want a child-like brain for your 'immortal' existence? a 15 year old brain? 25 year old brain? 50 year old brain? Wipe your memories every 100 years?
The devil's in the details beyond wishful thoughts.
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laughingdog
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Re: Would immortality cause the loss of consciousness? [Re: Samlet]
#23789726 - 10/31/16 07:49 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Samlet said: ...So, would, in theory, being immortal, living forever, mean you eventually lose consciousness? ...
Seems to me the key to resolving this confusion, is to consider whether memory is a component of self. If you feel, memory as opposed to amnesia, is an important component of self. Then some of the questions might be:
(1) how much memory is actually held in short term memory, (2) how much long term memory is available for access, (3) who is generating the contingencies for sorting which memories are relevant, (4) how accurate is memory anyway, (5) can you personally remember anything from being 3 ears old?, (6) can you personally remember a whole day from being 3 ears old?.
If you investigate the above it becomes obvious that all memory is, 1) generalizations and the more memory involved 2) the more generalizations so the right brain, express train, understanding is that: A) self is already a flimsy, although compelling construction B) & the longer one lives the more flimsy and inaccurate the entire identity is, but it's compelling feeling of authenticity tends to remain untarnished and as hypnotic as ever.
So the answer is that in fantasy we can live for epochs, but in 'reality' the whole notion of self is itself, so to speak, a side effect (pardon my mixing metaphors) of a self driving, computer controlled, car being given, in an advanced iteration / version a fear (glandular) reaction (emotion) which is attached to identifying itself with a moving dot in a matrix of moving traffic patterns in hopes that emotion will improve function.
although in evolutionary life processes this (attaching of emotion to temporary position related identity)has led to some success for individual organisms;from a more sophisticated birds' eye view both excessive rationality and excessive emotion are highly flawed strategies. Humanity has been crucified on this conflict for thousands of years. All the metaphysical/spiritual teachers have pointed out that what has the potential for integrating these opposed polarities is love. But the world ignores this and always hopes getting more, will bring: salvation/power/ pleasure/security. Desire for immortality would seem to be an instance of the fantasy of security.
Love is when we explain to a child to look both ways before crossing a street. When we do this we harmonize emotion and reason and we connect with our open hearts.
Perhaps generally speaking when folks work for tobacco and oil companies and most jobs that generate high pay and power they have lost their connection to their hearts.
When we explain to a child to look both ways before crossing a street, that is a heart fullfilling moment; and if we are paying attention there is no desperate searching for meaning in that moment.
no desperate searching for immortality in that moment.
no desperate searching for purpose in that moment.
no desperate searching for identity in that moment.
no searching at all in that moment.
no feeling of lack or suffering at all.
that is as good as it gets for primates.
it sure seems the world is insane with desire,and that we have some degree of choice as to whether to buy into such a flawed approach.
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redgreenvines
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Re: Would immortality cause the loss of consciousness? [Re: Samlet]
#23790451 - 11/01/16 05:11 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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the length of life provides life-length context not consciousness, so living forever you lose a context of life spans but you do not lose consciousness (awareness of your own experience).
as such a god would be insensitive to the contextual haste that penetrates our lives, in which we "need" to get so many things done before we die.
all speculative of course.
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zzripz
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Re: Would immortality cause the loss of consciousness? [Re: viktor]
#23790498 - 11/01/16 06:18 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
viktor said: You are already immortal 
Not sure how you mean this, but if it means this then I agree:
In solar mythology 'immortality' is defines as 'living for ever and ever and ever'. IE the myths stemming from solar-phallic mythos all seek to escape the natural with its change and cycles and/or 'put-it-right' so it becomes 'immortal'. This is because that mindset wants to avoid 'death' as though death as a thing separate from another thing called 'life'. But in reality life&death are always together because what we call life and death is a dynamic.
So in lunar based Goddess mythology nature is NOT seen as a threat, trap, fallen, dead but rather sacred~as~it~is which includes change, movement, cycles. Which means the cylical movement of life, death, and regeneration. That is the real meaning of immortal which the patriarchal beliefs appropriated to mean a thing you could attain IF you followed their authority, and gave them you money, and sacrficed even your sexuality to their belief system. Think of the Christian promise of the 'Promised Land'. Some interptret this as a heavenly realm, and others a thing that happens in a future where believers 'in the faith' are physically resurrected on Earth and gain 'immortality'.
Also involved in this latter absurd belief is the belief in substance--that 'you' are an enduring 'thing' who is conscious. Whereas in reality we are forever changing. Life without change, diversity would be as ugly as the mindsets who push these toxic myths and that is why their world is oppressive and ugly. They are always MONO this mono that and suppress diversity, and this is why they envisage a poxy dream of being their poxy dull self for ever and ever and ever...
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viktor
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Re: Would immortality cause the loss of consciousness? [Re: zzripz] 1
#23790592 - 11/01/16 07:54 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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I am consciousness. It is unchanging and immortal.
The contents of consciousness change all the time. It's nice to watch the dance.
-------------------- "They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."
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redgreenvines
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Re: Would immortality cause the loss of consciousness? [Re: viktor]
#23790619 - 11/01/16 08:07 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think you are the contents of consciousness in a particular body, you are not the principle of consciousness
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viktor
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Re: Would immortality cause the loss of consciousness? [Re: redgreenvines] 1
#23790634 - 11/01/16 08:17 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well you would be wrong. My body is the contents of consciousness, but not me.
-------------------- "They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."
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redgreenvines
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Re: Would immortality cause the loss of consciousness? [Re: viktor]
#23790675 - 11/01/16 08:41 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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I know that you are too huge to be contained in your 3-d body, but what are you if not the total of all your history, and the short little amazing time worm that is all smeared in immediacy while engaging in its surroundings.
I think the illusion of self is the wonderful blur of several recent moments (including recently recalled memories) which indisputably keep your "self" spinning and resonating while the world marches on.
this takes place in the brain, which is part of body. a 3-d arrangement that hosts 4-d activity.
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DividedQuantum
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Re: Would immortality cause the loss of consciousness? [Re: viktor]
#23790692 - 11/01/16 08:49 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
viktor said: Well you would be wrong. My body is the contents of consciousness, but not me.
Seems correct to me.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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DisoRDeR
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Re: Would immortality cause the loss of consciousness? [Re: DividedQuantum] 1
#23791272 - 11/01/16 01:01 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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What we point to with personal pronouns is up to us I suppose, though idosyncratic definitions will butt heads in conversation. Rather than 'content,' I might call the body a lens of consciousness--scratches, smudges, dust and all.
This takes us back to that whole issue of defining consciousness though, so I'll f-stop there...
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redgreenvines
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Re: Would immortality cause the loss of consciousness? [Re: DisoRDeR]
#23791499 - 11/01/16 02:12 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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the title of the thread has two undefined bombs in it: "immortality" & "consciousness" so I guess anything goes.
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hTx
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Re: Would immortality cause the loss of consciousness? [Re: Samlet]
#23792086 - 11/01/16 05:00 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Samlet said: Something I was thinking about recently was time and consciousness, time is relative to whatever its related to, for example a human being, living 80 to 100 years of age would feel that that's quite a long time, as that is the span of our lives, just like how a fly lives for about a day (I think) and that fly must think it's life is just as long, or a turtle living 400 years would most likely believe it's life is of normal length and so its consciousness takes in the time it's lived. So, would, in theory, being immortal, living forever, mean you eventually lose consciousness? As you live forever and never die, there's no relative time your brain is used to, such as when you're a child, time goes very slow because you haven't lived too long, but the older you get the faster time gets, forgive me if this is hard to understand the point of what im trying to get to but it's not an easy thing to explain.
No, because immortality doesn't imply a lack of novelty.
-------------------- zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes Light up the darkness.
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laughingdog
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Re: Would immortality cause the loss of consciousness? [Re: redgreenvines]
#23798583 - 11/03/16 06:16 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: the title of the thread has two undefined bombs in it: "immortality" & "consciousness" so I guess anything goes.
As well as the implied existence of a 'self'; any conception of a self, must include memory which is proven, from clinical studies to be 'flaky' to speak colloquially.
Not only is memory prone to all sorts of distortions, it is also prone to data storage problems, and access problems, and establishing relevant sorting algorithms.
Hence the notion of self, is itself is on shaky footing.
... or ... in other words ... immortality ... maybe ... but for whom or what
in summary:
the activity of phenomenon seems continuous regardless of individual human life stories ... but who gives a shit !
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zzripz
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Re: Would immortality cause the loss of consciousness? [Re: laughingdog]
#23799856 - 11/04/16 06:54 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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it very suits the ruling elite to make you distrust your memory via 'scientific experts' stating that is so.
because they want to manage your perception to 'remember' what they want you to 'remember' and believe is 'reality'!
(example?): This is why a certain percentage of people still think/believe Saddam Hussein and Iraq were responsible for the 9/11 attacks! Delusion/false memory
“Perception Management”: How to Sell a War
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redgreenvines
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Re: Would immortality cause the loss of consciousness? [Re: zzripz]
#23800136 - 11/04/16 09:11 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Sure, a planted memory might well suit whoever planted it, but the truth remains that memory is not like videotape - Instead our memory is associative and reconstructive at its core. If you declare otherwise you are reconstructing evidence and ignoring the truth.
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