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Re: Ego loss [Re: TrueBrode]
    #2587827 -

Quote:
Ego loss, for me, has been the realization of my insignificance



If you see yourself as insignificant have you really lost your ego? or have you just started to view your ego in a different way?
Of course we are insignificant, but why feel negative about that?

Quote:
I can barely watch/take part/involve myself/play in anything involving competition, I just don't get it.



that maybe a bit like a snowflake that tries to avoid the ground! We all play together, some play different parts. Perhaps those around you just arent playing the same tune as you!

Quote:
I feel a disgust for the rest of society, and hate society more than anything else.



I hate to get all Freudian and stuff but do you think this feeling could point to something about yourself that you dont like? If not, what exactly is it you hate about society?


Quote:
rather a detachment from all the mind craves to establish the differentiated self.



If one hates society, does that person show detachment from the mind?


--------------------
Always Smi2le

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Re: Ego loss [Re: Alan Stone]
    #2587861 -

Alan Stone said:
Ego loss is the loss of 'you'. Hard to explain, Frog, but it's like 'you' cease to exist, and all there's left is an empty recepticle to absorb the input, without the ability to judge. In the state of ego loss there are no desires, no sense of self, no identification with the host body, no memories, etc. All but the skill to walk (at least in my case) was lost, but regained afterwards with no ill effects.


Um, is this one of those things where you have to do shrooms to get this experience? hehe.

Wouldn't this be a difficult state to achieve?


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Re: Ego loss [Re: Frog]
    #2587880 -

"Um, is this one of those things where you have to do shrooms to get this experience? hehe."


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

since when is there only ONE way of doing things?  how about this point of view, shrooms give you a different perspective that you can't get with anything else.  now that doesn't mean you can't experience ego-loss, but the EXPERIENCE with shrooms is unique to itself. the whole experince is.  lets say there's a bunch of different ways to get to the same place.  why limit yourself to just one path?

Wouldn't this be a difficult state to achieve?
it all depends on the person, doesn't it? 

speak for and only for yourself :grin:


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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Re: Ego loss [Re: kaiowas]
    #2587906 -

Hola, kaiowas.

That's why I'm asking. I'm not trying to define ego loss as just one person's experience. I'm just trying to figure out if the kind of ego loss you guys are talking about is the kind you would experience only after shrooms. Has anyone achieved the state of ego loss as defined by Alan Stone?

And anyways, who wants to feel like a shell? What is the point of that? That's not just merely ego loss, imo.

Just curious, here.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Re: Ego loss [Re: Frog]
    #2587991 -

hiya frog!!!!! glad to see you asking kick ass questions!! :wink:

i tried the best I could to describe it in this post, on the previous page I think.


you arne't a shell either!!!! your ego ISN'T you, hence  your ego  all that you are left with is awareness.

have you ever experienced what I like to call "the silence"  the chattering of the mind totally slowed down to a halt on even the smallest of scales.  it's a wonderful thing, and again it's experience.  the difference to me in the "different types" of ego loss is its intensity.  how fast your ego goes away.  to do it without drugs will take a long time, only some masters at it can achieve it.  firthermore, achieving it is hard now and days becausey ou need some sort of seclusion, and this society doesn't really provide us with much "time" for this.  actually, our society doesn't even work twards it, in goes in the opposite direction.

using shrooms for instance can allow to see VERY clearly a hint of what th EGO is!! it's hard to see what the ego does until you really lose it.  its an arrow pointing in a certain direction. 

as i sstated in the previous post on this thread, the ego isn't bad!!  it's jsut that most of the time we let our ego overrun us with emotions.  when you fully take it away for a little bit, it provides us with a perspective shift.  it's like "wow this earth can be experienced in a totally different way."  I don't have to assign a good or a bad to EVERYTHING because my ego tries to dominate myself that way. instead, I can limit it, and soon be in CONTROL of it, so then I can really react in a way my awareness sees fit.

the ego is like a 5th grader constantly heckling you and feeding your emotions. it keeps the mind chattering and chattering and thus we lose clarity.  clarity is the result of increased awarenss IMHO.  clarity is great because it allows us not to be subject to emotions so quickly.  I gave an example of a car tire blowing out in my post before this one.

the tire blows out, and your ego will immdiately get upset.  upset that it had to happen now, upset that you might have gotten bad tires, upset that you need to go somewhere. this just puts a hell of a lot of stress on our bodies.  and you could say, so what?  how is this bad?  I'm not saying it's bad, but what I'm saying is that after you are done stressing out about this and that, you are still left with a flat tire.  worrying, getting frustrated, or angry doesn't help the situation or your body. nor does it help you think of how to solve this situation.  you may even kick the car and feel better about it, but that satisfaction is only limited ofr a short amount of time.  how about trying to be clear headed as much as possible?  you know, BE responsible for your emotions.


the ego can limit us in many ways, and why isn't it good to at least get a good thought process on what the ego actually does!!

as markos once said "only the fish don't know their really wet"


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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Re: Ego loss [Re: GazzBut]
    #2588004 -

If you see yourself as insignificant have you really lost your ego? or have you just started to view your ego in a different way?
Of course we are insignificant, but why feel negative about that?

Yes, one can feel insignificant and still be ego-less. I've felt what it's like to be nothing. After that, it's nearly impossible to continue on like the rest of society, striving to affirm social identity structures. Feeling insignificant is humility. It's comprehension that you are nothing more than that ant down by your feet. I didn't mean to make it sound negative.

that maybe a bit like a snowflake that tries to avoid the ground! We all play together, some play different parts. Perhaps those around you just arent playing the same tune as you!

Nah, it's hard to describe but, like I said above, after you feel what it is to be nothing, after you have all you define yourself by ripped away, it's impossible to get along with the rest of these people that just don't get it.

I hate to get all Freudian and stuff but do you think this feeling could point to something about yourself that you dont like? If not, what exactly is it you hate about society?

I'm not projecting any inward hatred. Society drives me fucking
nuts.

If one hates society, does that person show detachment from the mind?

Yes. Living in this society is like getting pelted with acid rain. One needn't have an ego to dislike a feeling. I said detachment from the mind using things to define the self. So consider society as afflicting a nerve ending.

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Re: Ego loss [Re: TrueBrode]
    #2588075 -

ego loss is somthing of the hardest thing to explain to someone that havent experienced it when it comes to psycadelic things for me :wink: ive tried to explain some what it is but have given up,

btw 2c-i im not sure is the best tool to get ego loss. i found LSD to the best tool.

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Re: Ego loss [Re: TrueBrode]
    #2588142 -

"I'm not projecting any inward hatred. Society drives me fucking
nuts."

so what you are saying then is that you are not responsible for your emotions and how you feel? that sounds a lot like ego to me.

getting mad or frustrated is simply a result of the world not working to the way you want it, and thus you may feel uncomfortable about it. you may not agree with it, but don't drive yourself insane because of it. that is not to say don't strive for change, but it is your own thoughts getting you crazy, not the world. only you can  make yourself angry, or upset, not the world you judge the world, and if it doesn't fit with your desires, then you get angry, frustrated, drive you nuts...etc.

you are using reality to supply yourself with happiness when we all know "in life, you win some and you lose some."

it's your ego suppling you with any emotion or any judgement of right and wrong. the fact that the ego can be taken away showed display that this is not what you ARE!  that your personality isn't what is essentially YOU.

you broke free of the image this civilizations works you towards!!  but don't stop there!!! so what if society is this way.  because you know that working from 9-5 isn't everything, can't you now look for a deeper level of satisfaction? if you realize your ego is not your essence, then you realize that your version of right and wrong can never be achieved in this world. nor is your way the only way. you can wonder the world with a VERY clean head, because you may realize, it's only me doing this to myself.  sure you have to have money, and a job, but don't let your ego drive you insane because you don't agree with it.  you will have to do things you don't want to do, but can't you do this while in a deep place in the back of your mind, this isn't EVERYTHING. 

try using your ego to see what your version of right and wrong is.  from there you can change that (it takes time but it's worth it) and essentially make it so your ego will no longer totally succumed your mind and body to what's "right and what's wrong"

I ask you to use your common sense here and know that sure if you don't have food or shelter or you are being attacked that yeah those negative emotions do have a part to play.

here's what I mean.  we have an instinct of fight or flight mechanism.  this is useful in the situation that you are being attacked, or  your life is in danger, but we use this FAR too much. especially since most of us here have our needs to live.  we have a computer do we not? 

we use this fight or flight mechansim when for instance we are in traffic.  your mind will secrete hormones and pump your bloodstream full of adrenaline.  this makes the mindchatter a whole lot more, clairity is lost, you put stress on your body, and the end result?  your still in traffic.

hehe I ramble a lot :lol: well whaddyaknow...post number 1400!!!! :grin:


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

Edited by kaiowas (04/21/04 07:16 PM)

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Re: Ego loss [Re: TrueBrode]
    #2588184 -

"If one hates society, does that person show detachment from the mind?"

doesn't hate come from the ego. this society can be experienced in another way can't it?

Yes. Living in this society is like getting pelted with acid rain. One needn't have an ego to dislike a feeling. I said detachment from the mind using things to define the self. So consider society as afflicting a nerve ending"

are we or are we not responsible for our emotions?


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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Re: Ego loss [Re: Frog]
    #2589909 -

Quote:
Um, is this one of those things where you have to do shrooms to get this experience? hehe.



I've had the experiecen on shrooms, in mystical visions and while meditating. So I would guess there's more than one way. The only method of achieving ego-loss while physically moving about was on shrooms, though.

Quote:
Wouldn't this be a difficult state to achieve?


Depends on the method you're using, and the mindset at the time of the attempt. It's easiest to achieve through meditation, I've found, because the 'void' state only takes about ten minutes to achieve. They key is not to be consciously waiting for it to happen, and not trying to steer in that direction.
Also, when on shrooms, once you get to ego-loss, there's no turning back. You're stuck in it until it wears off. That, and it seems to take longer. While meditating it's easy to end the void state. All you have to do is insert a thought, and it will most likely break the state.


--------------------
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle

Edited by Alan Stone (04/22/04 04:47 AM)

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Re: Ego loss [Re: TrueBrode]
    #2589970 -

TrueBrode said:
Yes, one can feel insignificant and still be ego-less. 


How can one feel insignificant without judging an experience and comparing it to experiences that are not in this moment? To label an experience and compare it to others requires comparison and filtering.

To compare the feelings and experience of taking a drink of water to another situation where water was drunk requires taking a moment to stop the direct experience of drinking the water in the first place. Your mind will limit your awareness from the feelings and sensations of drinking that water and will put more focus towards the labeling and comparison, the judging.

And, of course, the ego is the one responsible for doing all of this. Pure ego loss does not come with the thought of feeling insignifigant.. and yes, feeling insignifigant is an abstract thought we create ourselves... pure ego loss equates into pure experience.

I'm not sure if complete ego loss is possible... it is more a question of how your ego is structured and how you control it (or how it controls you, in the majority of the cases). The ego is like a complex machinery that takes in this pure energy (consciousness, awareness), and seperates it and places the energy into different areas, perhaps sensation or thought, different collections of thoughts.. it directs the focus and how much focus to be directed. Without the ego there is still consciousness, but it isn't focused and narrowed down, it is complete awareness. No feeling of identity, no memories of past, no comparisons being made... total head floating in the clouds, pure sensation-aware-eternity.  :grin:

It is about a healthy balance. There are times that we need to be able to do a lot of multi-tasking, and times where we don't have many things that HAVE to be done in the moment. In this chaotic world of billions developing in different countries and different families, with different ways of thinking everywhere, and all of this interaction and movement and time that keeps on ticking.. ticking... ticking.. it isn't common to find people who ever escape from being controlled by the ego as it was set up when they were young children, people who instead of feeding the emotion-backed addictions, use the signs that it is hungry to learn how to limit its power....
etc. etc. etc. etc.....

Quote:
Nah, it's hard to describe but, like I said above, after you feel what it is to be nothing, after you have all you define yourself by ripped away, it's impossible to get along with the rest of these people that just don't get it. 



I prefer the way of thinking where I continue to be happy and free and interact and play the games without attachment, and give people little bits of where I am at, based on who they are and where they are... life is a constantly evolving game, maybe if we would stop being so egotistical and so sure of our own individual perspective, we wouldn't look down on others who don't see the same things we see, and perhaps honestly help them.... *shrugs*

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Ego loss [Re: solidshroom]
    #2590124 -

If you can still type on your computer you are not even close to ego loss. (usually you will be drooling in the floor at this time :smile: )
I have reached ego loss several times (perhaps better described as ego sleep) and I can tell you is like dying, if you surrender to the dying experience you can transcend, you return to the source, what you experience there no words can describe.
And you need a lot of awareness to bring back some memories from it.
My humble opinion.


--------------------

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Re: Ego loss [Re: LOBO]
    #2590543 -

Quote:
I can tell you is like dying, if you surrender to the dying experience you can transcend, you return to the source, what you experience there no words can describe. And you need a lot of awareness to bring back some memories from it.



Very good description.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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