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InvisibleRavus
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Quantum Immortality and the Swami Challenge
    #4254378 - 06/04/05 01:10 AM (12 years, 23 days ago)

According to the Everett Many Worlds Theory of quantum physics, every possible universe is created every moment.

So according to this, we'd follow to the basic premise that even though we'll die in the vast majority of universes from an action, we'll only be conscious in the ones in which we live, so we'll appear immortal. You don't experience lack of experience after all, only those where there is still you to experience. This is the premise of quantum immortality.

Now, Swami says he'll pay $156,000.50 for anyone who can show a magical act. Well well Swami, it looks like we've caught you.

I'll go over there and, using a standard pistol, shoot myself in the head through the roof of my mouth. According to quantum immortality, I will die in the vast majority of universes, but there will be a few universes where, by some random movement of the particles, I will live and collect the money. Since I will only experience life in the universes where I live, it's a win-win situation.

What do you say Swamibear?


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Quantum Immortality and the Swami Challenge [Re: Ravus]
    #4254434 - 06/04/05 01:28 AM (12 years, 23 days ago)

Please bring some cleaning products. Blood stains are a bitch to get out.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Quantum Immortality and the Swami Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #4254453 - 06/04/05 01:36 AM (12 years, 23 days ago)

Of course, the benefit would be all for me and mostly all the negatives for you. Since I would die in the vast majority of universes and you would live, you'd not only have to deal with the body, but also would forever lose faith in the magic you so proudly embrace.

However, in the universes I'd experience, I'd give you a big hug, your life would be content, and the money would be secured. If only the magical Swami could communicate to the skeptical Swami, eh?


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Quantum Immortality and the Swami Challenge [Re: Ravus]
    #4254470 - 06/04/05 01:41 AM (12 years, 23 days ago)

Do you mean to tell me that in another universe, I am getting stoned and laid tonight instead of ditzing around on the internet?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Quantum Immortality and the Swami Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #4254484 - 06/04/05 01:45 AM (12 years, 23 days ago)

Indeed, though the probability of you getting laid, even in quantum terms, is so small that would be very rare in the multiverse.

It's like if you put your hand against the wall. In most universes, your hand would just stay there (you not getting laid) but in a very rare probability, the subatomic particle would move in such a way so that your hand could pass through it.

Same with me shooting myself in the head. So how many universes is Hunter alive in now?


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Quantum Immortality and the Swami Challenge [Re: Ravus]
    #4254497 - 06/04/05 01:50 AM (12 years, 23 days ago)

Indeed, though the probability of you getting laid, even in quantum terms, is so small that would be very rare in the multiverse.

You win an award for the most clever insult ever on the shroomery.  :thumbup:

Hey! Wait a minute! What am I smiling for...?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Quantum Immortality and the Swami Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #4254504 - 06/04/05 01:53 AM (12 years, 23 days ago)

:evil:

This comes from a master himself on the matter.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Quantum Immortality and the Swami Challenge [Re: Ravus]
    #4254529 - 06/04/05 02:01 AM (12 years, 23 days ago)

Is it possible that Swami is actually wrong in some other universe? If so, how does that reflect back on this particular Swami?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Quantum Immortality and the Swami Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #4254557 - 06/04/05 02:09 AM (12 years, 23 days ago)

Is it a possibility that Swami is wrong? If indeed his fingers hit the wrong keys in all the orders and he submitted his post, he would easily be wrong. But truth is relative to the system it's perceived in, as would be the basis of coherentism, so for the current Swami I would say you would be unaffected.

But if, for example, someone took the Swami challenge and shot themself, and we assume you thought they wouldn't succeed in quantum immortality, then you would be wrong in a small percentage of cases. It's all about the possibilities we have open to us, as all manifest themselves by the random indeterminism of quantum particles.

Is it a possibility Swami's going to hell in some universes? The question is whether rules themselves can be rewritten by a multitude of universes, and if they can, then wouldn't all pseudoscience and myths be true in one universe, no matter how far removed from us it is? As that is the explanation for why this universe is so perfect for life; in all the universes with different rules where planets and stars couldn't form, there was no life, so it seems as if the universe is fine-tuned to us.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Quantum Immortality and the Swami Challenge [Re: Ravus]
    #4254583 - 06/04/05 02:18 AM (12 years, 23 days ago)

As infinity is pretty gosh darn big, I would imagine that there are entire galactic clusters of multiverses where you are not funny.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Quantum Immortality and the Swami Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #4255052 - 06/04/05 05:18 AM (12 years, 23 days ago)

I always thought Feynman was the originator of the many worlds postualate....

Also, if one was to have an all encompassing view of Quantum theory , and keep all in respect when one made up theories like this, instead of running off with one half assed perspective of QM, you would have realized that for every possible location and velocity of every subatomic particle, there would be a finite propability of such; which would also further its self imposing mechanics to conclude that there is a finite amount of these possible universes, which would not be congruent with the ever changing finite amount of propability as time progresses, meaning that after a zillion or so univeses were created from these propabilities, each one would experience time dissimilar to each other.... and to say that we are all experiencing zillions of universe through our individual consciousness at different time intervals is laughing in the face of Occams Razor.

Even if you went as far as to say that swami in universe B (as opposed to our universe A) was a seperate consciousness, who is to say that after millions of seperate experiences Swami in Universe B would even propose such a bet?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Quantum Immortality and the Swami Challenge [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4255266 - 06/04/05 10:20 AM (12 years, 23 days ago)

You guys crack me up LOL 5 Shrooms for this thread. :lol: :mushroom2: :mushroom2: :mushroom2: :mushroom2: :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Quantum Immortality and the Swami Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #4255301 - 06/04/05 10:37 AM (12 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Do you mean to tell me that in another universe, I am getting stoned and laid tonight instead of ditzing around on the internet?




even if that is true it doesn't matter much because you are this SWami that hangs on the internet, the ohter guy is some other person because you two are separated by void in consciousness, or in other words, you experience your life and he experiences his, you are not in any way interconnected so the other guy is not you


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Quantum Immortality and the Swami Challenge [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4255332 - 06/04/05 11:02 AM (12 years, 23 days ago)

bah, everett was the originator of the many worlds theory..... Feynman did it in another world.... just getting the two confused..... my bad...lol


Also, Ravus, you are talking more about the many-minds interpretation and less about Everetts Many-worlds interpretation. The Many-minds interpretation is widely ignored by physicists since it relies on there to be a mind seperate from the body. The Everett Many-Worlds interpretation is merely an alternative explanation for the wafefunction collapse which is presented in the Young Slit Experiment.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Quantum Immortality and the Swami Challenge [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4255598 - 06/04/05 01:02 PM (12 years, 23 days ago)

I am not necessarily talking about the Many-Minds interpretation, because the Many-Minds interpretation assumes that there is a duality of the body and mind, and that the mind is splitting into many different consciousnesses, with the universe remaining unchanged. It states that the quantum weirdness occurs not in a splitting universe, but in your splitting mind.

I don't buy this at all. My asumption doesn't require the mind to be separate from the body (brain and central nervous system) but rather I just assume that we are experiencing consciousness through the brain and CNS, even in other universes. If other universes followed the same laws as ours, then it would seem to be true that I am conscious in many other universes as I am in this one, according to the Everett Many-Worlds theory.

Nobody knows whether there is an infinite number of universes or not. If it indeed is as you say and there is only a finite probability that quantum particles can follow, and laws of the universe can't be changed (which is arguable, as pointed out by the supporting of life in this universe by some quantum physicists,) then there would be a finite number of universes. They would still be an incomprehensibly large number, seeing how many quantum particles there are and how many possibilities they can follow, each splitting off a separate universe from this one.

If you tried to detonate a nuclear bomb, for example, in the vast majority of universes you would die. But through the possible movements of quantum particles in a few very rare universes, you would live, and because you do not experience death, and only experience life, you would seem to never die. Only from the viewpoint of someone else would you die, but from your own you would continue living on. This could also happen in a very small percentage of universes where I shot myself through the head; it's not impossible by quantum mechanics, so it must happen in some universes, even if it's very improbable.

After all, in the Many-Worlds theory, the distinctions between very improbable and very impossible are quite a difference.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Quantum Immortality and the Swami Challenge [Re: Ravus]
    #4255863 - 06/04/05 02:27 PM (12 years, 23 days ago)

I never understood the location of these universes in relation to this one. Are they overlapping? which could accoutn for superposition, or are they like slices in a loaf of bread?


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Invisiblemecreateme
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Re: Quantum Immortality and the Swami Challenge [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4256076 - 06/04/05 03:42 PM (12 years, 23 days ago)

Does it matter?


--------------------
No ONE wants to know the ultimate TRUTH, as soon as YOU find IT out, YOU want to forget IT.

You are everything's way of feeling itself.

Happy Schwag, everygodly!


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Quantum Immortality and the Swami Challenge [Re: mecreateme]
    #4256300 - 06/04/05 04:53 PM (12 years, 23 days ago)

Do you matter?


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Quantum Immortality and the Swami Challenge [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4256423 - 06/04/05 05:33 PM (12 years, 23 days ago)

Are they overlapping? which could accoutn for superposition, or are they like slices in a loaf of bread?

Its is more akin to soaking the bread in water and then blending on the frappe setting; freezing into cubes, then smashing with a hammer - if that makes any sense...


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Quantum Immortality and the Swami Challenge [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4256424 - 06/04/05 05:33 PM (12 years, 23 days ago)

Are they overlapping? which could accoutn for superposition, or are they like slices in a loaf of bread?

Its is more akin to soaking the bread in water and then blending on the frappe setting; freezing into cubes, then smashing with a hammer - if that makes any sense...


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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