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Re: Part of Saddam's WMD found! [Re: ]
    #2314739 -

mushmaster said:
the link says that the united states has a total of 10,455 nuclear weapons, 7,800 of which are actively deployed, and russia has 8,400 actively deployed, with 10,000-15,000 in reserve.



do you really think the US will be honest about it's capabilities...not ever..


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Part of Saddam's WMD found! [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #2314809 -

do you really think the Russians will be honest about it's capabilities...not ever..


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Part of Saddam's WMD found! [Re: Snobrdr311]
    #2315694 -

I hear the Martian rover is looking for the WMD and for Osama.

hehehehehe.

mjshroomer

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Re: Part of Saddam's WMD found! [Re: ]
    #2316445 -

The way you're interpreting this information to your own ends is amazing mush. You should apply for a job in Bush's admin.

You honestly believe that those two sources support your position that Russia has more nuclear weapons than the US?  :rolleyes:

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Re: Part of Saddam's WMD found! [Re: mjshroomer]
    #2316450 -

I hear the Martian rover is looking for the WMD and for Osama.

Well luvdemlies needs it proved they arn't on mars before he'll accept George Bush isn't right. He has constantly played dodgeball when asked what evidence he would accept that WMD arn't there. I gave up after he refused to accept excavation to the earths core of the entire surface of the planet would not necessarily prove his hero George Bush was wrong.

Perhaps Saddam invented a time machine and hid the WMD in another time...no doubt luv would want it "proved" that he didn't.

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Re: Part of Saddam's WMD found! [Re: Xlea321]
    #2316508 -

Looks like the russians sold bin laden a few nukes. We used bin laden against them, now they use him against us. peace

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/392006.html

Last Update: 09/02/2004 05:06

Report: Al-Qaida has obtained tactical nuclear explosives

By Yoav Stern, Haaretz Correspondent, and Haaretz Service



Al-Qaida have possessed tactical nuclear weapons for about six years, the London-based Al-Hayat newspaper reported Sunday

The Arabic daily reported that sources close to Al-Qaida said Osama bin Laden's group bought the nuclear weapons from Ukrainian scientists who were visiting Kandahar, Afghanistan, in 1998.

The report has not been confirmed.

However, the sources said Al-Qaida doesn't intend to use the weapons against American forces in Muslim countries, "due to the serious damage" it could cause. But that decision is subject to change, the sources said, if Al-Qaida "is dealt a serious blow that won't leave it any room to maneuver."

The possibility of detonating the nuclear devices on American soil was also raised in the report, although no details were given.

The sources were quoted as saying that Al-Qaida actvists have hidden the weapons - each of which is about the size of a suitcase - in "a safe place."

Kandahar was the stronghold of the Taliban, which kept Afghanistan under tight religious restrictions until the United States attacked it in retaliation for the September 2001 attacks.

In the years after the collapse of the Soviet Union, serious concern arose in the West over the possibility that nuclear technology and weapons could spread to other groups, in part due to the difficult economic situation in the former communist lands. Several reports of the nuclear arsenal in the former Soviet Union in the 1990s indicated that a few dozen nuclear explosive devices had disappeared. One of the theories was that the devices disappeared in Ukraine, which claims that it handed over all its nuclear weapons to Russia.


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Everything in this post happened 7 years ago. If you do not feel good get a hobby like r/c airplane flying.

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Re: Part of Saddam's WMD found! [Re: GazzBut]
    #2316669 -

GazzBut writes:

Id like to see a source that confirms that France etc loaned more than the US, especially during the 80's.

Do a web search. There have been dozens of articles in the media in the last few months describing proposals for debt relief for Iraq. Most of them list the amounts owed to varying countries. Russia, France, and Germany will be the ones most affected by debt forgiveness. That's why they were resisting the proposals so strenuously. The US is the country least affected, which is why these countries claim the US is being unfair in pushing the proposals.

This isn't secret stuff, Gazz... it's been all over the media. I realize you may not find economic news articles as interesting as I do, which is why you probably missed them, but that's the beauty of Google. You can look stuff up.

But even if they did, so what? The US was definitely the only country to tell lies to use as an excuse to attack Iraq.

Try to make at least a half-hearted attempt to stay on topic. I'm not discussing whether or not it was correct to depose Hussein, I'm stating that afoaf's claim that the US sold Iraq WMDs is erroneous.

You can try and rewrite history all you like but the simple facts remanin: The US loaned Iraq millions of dollars ...

And the simple fact remains that other countries loaned Iraq billions. A heck of a lot more than the US ever did.

...and sold Iraq the ingredients for WMDs.

Which is not the same as selling him WMDs. What part of that concept are you having difficulty grasping?

Besides, dozens of other countries (including even Sweden) sold him "ingredients" for WMDs as well. Alex's cut and paste job in this very thread list just a few of the countries who did. Surprise, surprise -- France and Germany are on the list.

To be honest I find your posistion to be so far from the truth that it is actually offensive.

You of course have the right to be offended by facts. I have the right to be amused by your inability to grasp facts.

Grow a brain Pinky. What other uses, other than the production of WMDs would somebody have for Bacillus Anthracis and Clostridium Botulinum?

So every medical school and veterinary college in the world is producing WMDs? Have you notified Reuters of this earth-shattering news?

Thats not going very far down the chemical chain at all.

Try to grasp the difference between chemicals and bacteria. You may wish to review your notes from school.

pinky


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Iraq's imports of chlorine under the sanction regulations [Re: Phred]
    #2316717 -

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/iraq/fallujah_2.htm Iraq chlorine imports

Of the 15 million kg of chlorine imported under the UN Oil-for-Food Program since 1997, Baghdad used only 10 million kg and has 5 million kg in stock, suggesting that some domestically produced chlorine has been diverted to such proscribed activities as CW agent production.

http://www.mideastfacts.com/schneider_sanction_03032001.html tracking of Iraqi chlorine imports

Under U.N. sanctions, UNICEF envoys must ensure that chlorine gas and other commodities arriving in Iraq are used for civilian purposes only. Critical to the supply of clean water but listed under sanctions rules as a "dual use" item with potential military applications, chlorine is tracked canister by canister by an agency more commonly identified with promoting vaccinations.

"We observe them all arrive; hard count every one; follow them to government warehouses, and then to end use," said Pierrette Vu Thi, the UNICEF program coordinator in Iraq. "We track every single cylinder."

http://www.casi.org.uk/discuss/2001/msg00439.html still more on Iraqi chlorine imports

Hi Tim and others,

You ask:

Can anyone confirm [that chlorine imports have been
blocked by the Sanctions Committee] and refer me to
details?

I don't have evidence of this (in part perhaps due to
the secretive operation of the 661 Committee), so
don't know whether and to what extent chlorine imports
have been blocked.

What I do know is that, since the early stages of "oil
for food", provisions have been made to import
chlorine to Iraq. The 90 day report for Phase II of
in 180 day phases; the UN Secretary-General issues a
report every 90 days, therefore at the half way point
and end point of each phase) is available at:

http://www.un.org/Docs/sc/reports/1997/s1997685.htm

You will see that paragraphs 19 and 37 of this report
(dated 4 September 1997) mention expected arrival of
chlorine and protocols developed for tracking it in
Iraq. (A complete list of Secretary-General's report
can be found at

http://www.cam.ac.uk/societies/casi/info/un.html)

More recently, I have heard from a member of Unmovic,
the new UN weapons inspectors, that there has been
debate about removing chlorine gas from the "1051
lists" of potentially dual-use items. His explanation
was that there is so much chlorine being imported into
Iraq that (i) it takes up one and a half staff
people's time just to file the applications; (ii) most
of the sites receiving chlorine in Iraq (c. 900?) are
then never inspected; and (iii) the chlorine tracking
protocol has never worked anyhow.

This doesn't answer the question of whether there is
enough chlorine in Iraq, whether due to imports or
domestic production. I don't have an answer to that.
Conversations with UN and NGO staff that I had in
Baghdad in December did suggest that the main problem
with, say, delivering clean drinking water was NOT the
problem of purifying it in a plant: that was
reasonably easy. Problems arose because (i) the staff
couldn't afford to be at work to maintain and use the
plant properly; (ii) the distribution system was badly
damaged, etc. (I don't recall my clothes smelling of
diesel, but don't have enough experience to know
whether my experience is typical. I do know that our
hotel would clean its floors with some form of petrol
product.)

I hope that this is of some help.

Best,


Colin Rowat
274 Vanderbilt Ave., #2
Brooklyn NY 11205
USA

Clearly, multiple sources confirm my assertion that Iraq could and did import chlorine through the Oil for Food program.

Of course, they could make their own easily enough if they chose to. At least one of the above links mentions Iraq's domestic production of chlorine. It is simplicity itself to produce chlorine by passing an electrical current through salt water. I remember clearly doing that very thing in chemistry class in high school.

And yes, I realize that the fact that Iraq imported chlorine has nothing to do with the fact that the US provided no WMDs to Iraq. Not trying to derail the thread, just showing that when I said Iraq imported chlorine I could back up my statement.

pinky


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Re: Part of Saddam's WMD found! [Re: Xlea321]
    #2316761 -

Quote:
Well luvdemlies needs it proved they arn't on mars before he'll accept George Bush isn't right. He has constantly played dodgeball when asked what evidence he would accept that WMD arn't there.


Does your dishonesty never end?

I asked you to show me where I ever claimed or insisted they do exist. I'm still waiting.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Part of Saddam's WMD found! [Re: Xlea321]
    #2317204 -

The way you're interpreting this information to your own ends is amazing mush.

please alex. all i've done is directly quote the sources. please tell me why my interpretation of the information is faulty. be specific.

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Re: Part of Saddam's WMD found! [Re: ]
    #2317341 -

Because on each list it gives a number for nuclear weapons by country. The US heads the list on both sources.

Why do you think they have done this? Why havn't they followed your reasoning and put "18,000" under the Russian column? Are they really that stupid they don't know what they're doing while some kid on a shroom board does?

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Re: Part of Saddam's WMD found! [Re: Xlea321]
    #2317422 -

Because on each list it gives a number for nuclear weapons by country. The US heads the list on both sources.

the US heads the list on the summary at the CDI site. however, in the details, it says that russia actually has more. there is a discrepency, and i'm pretty sure it's because russia's "non-active" weapons are not included in the count at the top of the page, while those of the united states are. at least that's what is suggested by simple math. i've emailed them on the matter, and hopefully there will be a response soon.

the bulletin of the atomic scientists source does not support your claims at all. like i said (and you can verify this yourself), the list of american arms includes all nuclear weapons, while the russian index includes only strategic arms, and in the text, the writer, referring to russian arms, states that "Based on the best available information, we estimate that the total current arsenal of intact warheads is around 18,000.", which is far more nuclear weapons than the US possesses.

there is a discrepency in the first source (CDI) between the numbers in the summary and the numbers in the details. i've emailed them about it. as far as the bulletin of the atomic scientists... it in every way supports the idea that russia has more nuclear weapons than the united states.

Why do you think they have done this? Why havn't they followed your reasoning and put "18,000" under the Russian column? Are they really that stupid they don't know what they're doing while some kid on a shroom board does?

i've emailed them about it. we'll see what they say.

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Re: Part of Saddam's WMD found! [Re: Xlea321]
    #2318299 -

Still waiting PinocchiALPO.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Part of Saddam's WMD found! [Re: Xlea321]
    #2318355 -

Exclusive: Blix Backed Bush on WMD
Stewart Stogel, NewsMax.com
Tuesday, Feb. 10, 2004
Documents Show That U.N. Inspector Believed Saddam Was Hiding Secret Weapons
UNITED NATIONS ? U.N. chief Iraq arms inspector Dr. Hans Blix believed that Baghdad may have been hiding as much as 10,000 liters of deadly anthrax before the U.S.- and British-led coalition invasion of Iraq in March 2003.

According to experts, if properly weaponized, that amount of anthrax could neutralize a city the size of New York.

The admission by Blix was found in a private report sent to the UNMOVIC (U.N. Monitoring, Observation and Verification Commission) College of Commissioners just weeks before the invasion. The college is the U.N. body's executive board.

In his report Blix said that he had a "strong suspicion" that Iraq "is hiding" as much as 10,000 liters of the exotic poison.

The private proclamation went further than Blix's public statements where he insisted that weapons Baghdad could not account for was not proof they existed and were hidden.

A senior official at the French foreign ministry in Paris told NewsMax that he was aware of the assertion by Blix and believed it was made "under pressure from Washington."

On Thursday, CIA Director George Tenet told an audience at Georgetown University that his agency's assessment on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction was shared by numerous intelligence agencies other than the CIA.

Blix's report would seem to corroborate the Tenet claim.

Former U.N. chief arms inspector Rolf Ekeus had explained that anthrax is one form of WMD that is easily hidden and stored.

"In a spore form you can hide it in a cool cellar and perhaps keep it for as long as 15 years," Ekeus proclaimed.

Ekeus went on to explain that in such a form, anthrax is fairly safe and would be difficult for arms inspectors to track down.

"You can store it in a person's home. How can we search every home in Iraq?" Ekeus once asked.

In his speech, Tenet took exception with the claim made by the United States' recently departed Iraq arms hunter David Kay that the Iraq Survey Group, which has not found WMD, had completed "85 percent" of its work.

Tenet told the Georgetown audience that the Iraq group "has nowhere even close to completing 85 percent of its work."

Kay's successor, former deputy chief U.N. Iraq arms inspector Charles Duelfer, is expected to take up his new duties in Baghdad this week.

Based on statements by Blix and his predecessor Rolf Ekeus, Tenet's claims may be accurate, in a strict technical sense.

Questioned by NewsMax, Blix explained from his home in Stockholm, Sweden:

"We [the U.N.] had strong suspicions that some anthrax was still hidden, but we did not find the evidence to assert its existence."

The U.N. and the International Atomic Energy Agency (the U.N.'s atomic watchdog) resumed Iraq inspections in December 2003 after a four-year hiatus.

Despite three months of intensive searches, no evidence of exotic weapons surfaced, other than the existence of modified al-Samoud missiles.

The al-Samoud's were found to have violated U.N. sanctions and were being destroyed by Iraq (under U.N. supervision) leading up to the coalition's invasion.

Blix pointed out that all U.N. inspections and arms control operations ceased when the coalition invaded Iraq.

Since then, intelligence from Washington and London to the U.N. has virtually ceased.

Blix retired from his post in July 2003 convinced that the U.N. would not be permitted to resume its inspections under a Security Council mandate.

The future of UNMOVIC has remained in limbo since Operation Iraqi Freedom.

The United States' U.N. ambassador, John Negroponte, told reporters that the future of UNMOVIC "will be revisited at a future date." The ambassador refused to give a time table for the "revisit."

Blix is expected to tell his side of the search for Iraq's secret weapons in a book due to be released next month.

Link


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Part of Saddam's WMD found! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2318749 -

that book will surely be interesting...

seems like everyone's writing one these days.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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Re: Part of Saddam's WMD found! [Re: ]
    #2320888 -

Ok mush, I can see there's no reasoning with you on this one.

btw, if Russia had headed the list in both of those sources instead of the US would you have argued it so vociferously?

Based on the best available information, we estimate that the total current arsenal of intact warheads is around 18,000.", which is far more nuclear weapons than the US possesses.

But only 8600 are operational.

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Re: Part of Saddam's WMD found! [Re: Xlea321]
    #2320999 -

Ok mush, I can see there's no reasoning with you on this one.

feel free to start any time.

btw, if Russia had headed the list in both of those sources instead of the US would you have argued it so vociferously?

huh?

the US only heads up the list in one of the sources and only in the top summary, which is contradicted in the details. as for the other source, it shows that russia is ahead by a large margin. have you sunken to outright lies, do you just have trouble reading?

i don't know what you're trying to say here, but i should make it clear that i really have no personal stock in russia having more nuclear arms than the US. i am not arguing this for my "own ends". personally, i really couldn't care less if the united states did indeed have the world's largest nuclear stockpile. it wouldn't matter to me. i have a feeling that before very long, russia will destroy more of its nuclear weapons and the US will have the largest nuclear weapons stockpile. when that day comes, it will be no problem for me to see that. my world view will not come crashing down around me. that day hasn't come yet, and until then, russia, not the US, has the world's largest nuclear weapons stockpile.

But only 8600 are operational.

yes, but the others still exist. they are stockpiled, mothballed, and many are awaiting dismantlement. they still exist and could still be rendered "operational" if the russians wanted...if you only want to talk about actively deployed weapons, you should have clarified that from the beginning, though even in that case, russia still leads, because the US has got only 7,800 of those.

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Re: Part of Saddam's WMD found! [Re: ]
    #2321587 -

Quote:
have you sunken to outright lies


You just now noticed that?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Part of Saddam's WMD found! [Re: ]
    #2323652 -

List of countries in order of number of deployed weapons:

United States - 10,450
Russia - 8,400
China - 400
France - 350
United Kingdom - 200
India - 60-90
Pakistan - 24-48

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_nuclear_weapons

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Re: Part of Saddam's WMD found! [Re: Xlea321]
    #2323752 -

"deployed"

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