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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran.....
#5045967 - 12/10/05 08:55 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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The Sunday Times - World The Sunday Times December 11, 2005
Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran Uzi Mahnaimi, Tel Aviv, and Sarah Baxter, Washington ISRAEL?S armed forces have been ordered by Ariel Sharon, the prime minister, to be ready by the end of March for possible strikes on secret uranium enrichment sites in Iran, military sources have revealed. The order came after Israeli intelligence warned the government that Iran was operating enrichment facilities, believed to be small and concealed in civilian locations.
Iran?s stand-off with the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) over nuclear inspections and aggressive rhetoric from Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the Iranian president, who said last week that Israel should be moved to Europe, are causing mounting concern.
The crisis is set to come to a head in early March, when Mohamed El-Baradei, the head of the IAEA, will present his next report on Iran. El-Baradei, who received the Nobel peace prize yesterday, warned that the world was ?losing patience? with Iran.
A senior White House source said the threat of a nuclear Iran was moving to the top of the international agenda and the issue now was: ?What next?? That question would have to be answered in the next few months, he said.
Defence sources in Israel believe the end of March to be the ?point of no return? after which Iran will have the technical expertise to enrich uranium in sufficient quantities to build a nuclear warhead in two to four years.
?Israel ? and not only Israel ? cannot accept a nuclear Iran,? Sharon warned recently. ?We have the ability to deal with this and we?re making all the necessary preparations to be ready for such a situation.?
The order to prepare for a possible attack went through the Israeli defence ministry to the chief of staff. Sources inside special forces command confirmed that ?G? readiness ? the highest stage ? for an operation was announced last week.
Gholamreza Aghazadeah, head of the Atomic Organisation of Iran, warned yesterday that his country would produce nuclear fuel. ?There is no doubt that we have to carry out uranium enrichment,? he said.
He promised it would not be done during forthcoming talks with European negotiators. But although Iran insists it wants only nuclear energy, Israeli intelligence has concluded it is deceiving the world and has no intention of giving up what it believes is its right to develop nuclear weapons.
A ?massive? Israeli intelligence operation has been underway since Iran was designated the ?top priority for 2005?, according to security sources.
Cross-border operations and signal intelligence from a base established by the Israelis in northern Iraq are said to have identified a number of Iranian uranium enrichment sites unknown to the the IAEA.
Since Israel destroyed the Osirak nuclear reactor in Iraq in 1981, ?it has been understood that the lesson is, don?t have one site, have 50 sites?, a White House source said.
If a military operation is approved, Israel will use air and ground forces against several nuclear targets in the hope of stalling Tehran?s nuclear programme for years, according to Israeli military sources.
It is believed Israel would call on its top special forces brigade, Unit 262 ? the equivalent of the SAS ? and the F-15I strategic 69 Squadron, which can strike Iran and return to Israel without refuelling. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-1920074,00.html
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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Divided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: lonestar2004]
#5045996 - 12/10/05 09:03 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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It's probobly good that Israel does it, because it will have to be done and everybody already hates Israel anyways.
-------------------- 1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..." 2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..." 3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: Divided_Sky]
#5046022 - 12/10/05 09:11 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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"ISRAEL?S armed forces have been ordered by Ariel Sharon, the prime minister, to be ready by the end of March for possible strikes"
do you think they will???? or are they just bluffing?
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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DirtMcgirt
in a pinch
Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2,213
Loc: city of angels
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: lonestar2004]
#5046027 - 12/10/05 09:12 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Do you think they will carry this out this time? It doesn't look like Iran will stop their program. Last time they did it there was a different atmosphere in the Middle East and I am not sure if the recent changes would make Israel more or less likely to strike.
More likely in my opinion, since they are no longer the only occupier in the region. If they do, it definetely won't solve all their problems. More will come up following this for better or worse.
-------------------- "And we, inhabitants of the great coral of the Cosmos, believe the atom (which still we cannot see) to be full matter, whereas, it too, like everything else, is but an embroidery of voids in the Void, and we give the name of being, dense and even eternal, to that dance of inconsistencies, that infinite extension that is identified with absolute Nothingness and that spins from its own non-being the illusion of everything."
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: DirtMcgirt]
#5046089 - 12/10/05 09:29 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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i don't know. Russia is suppling Iran with weapons...the U.S. would have to assist Israel.
Russia/Iran Vs Israel/America
this shit is just getting crazy...
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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bukkake
Registered: 05/28/05
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: lonestar2004]
#5046141 - 12/10/05 09:45 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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I wouldn't doubt it. Next to Saudi Arabia, Israel is the biggest terrorist state in the region. I wonder how the world would have felt if Libya or Syria bombed Israel's uranium sites in the 60s? But unlike when Israel bombed Iraq's supposed nuclear weapons plant, it is a dangerous time for them to be playing "cowboy" and bombing other countries.
If this happens, I'd imagine Iran would undoubtedly strike back. I really couldn't careless if those two went to war, what is more concerning is what other countries would be sucked into it.
Edited by bukkake (12/10/05 09:52 PM)
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Prajna
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: lonestar2004]
#5046494 - 12/11/05 12:08 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
lonestar2004 said: i don't know. Russia is suppling Iran with weapons...the U.S. would have to assist Israel.
Russia/Iran Vs Israel/America
this shit is just getting crazy...
Actually it's Russia, China and Iran vs.Isreal/America
But, yeah it's crazy shit...
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looner2
ABBA fan
Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: lonestar2004]
#5046584 - 12/11/05 12:41 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Someone has got to do it. If not, why are we even threatening, pleading, and begging Iran from the E.U to the U.N?
Diplomacy without the threat of violence is empty, and as we have seen the only country that isn't full of cowardice and emptiness is the U.S and Israel.
Iran cannot be allowed to seek and obtain nuclear weapons.
Period.
They can continue blowing a smokescreen, and it will fool Eurocrap and other lesser nations, but it won't fool us.
-------------------- I am in love with Acidic_Sloth
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downforpot
Stranger
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: looner2]
#5046603 - 12/11/05 12:48 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Don't worry about Russia. I am Russian, our military forces are shit except the spetznaz. It won't be just Israel and America either. If you think most of Western Europe, Australia, SK, Japan won't join, dream the fuck on.
-------------------- http://www.myspace.com/4th25 "And I don't care if he was handcuffed Then shot in his head All I know is dead bodies Can't fuck with me again"
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Learyfan
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: lonestar2004]
#5047225 - 12/11/05 07:47 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
lonestar2004 said: i don't know. Russia is suppling Iran with weapons...the U.S. would have to assist Israel.
Russia/Iran Vs Israel/America
this shit is just getting crazy...
It's just like when Hulk Hogan and Andre The Giant teamed up against King Kong Bundy and Big John Studd in the mid 80's.
-------------------- -------------------------------- Mp3 of the month: Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish
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Redstorm
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: lonestar2004]
#5047922 - 12/11/05 11:57 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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I don't see why Iran can't just have nukes.
We should try to talk Israel out of this. Allowing them to play renegade cop of the Middle East does not help build the stability we hope to foster there.
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Bhairabas
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: Redstorm]
#5048559 - 12/11/05 02:53 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yeah lets kicksome ass!! Why don't we go after North Korea too and cause one of those things.. What are they called again?? Oh yeah world wars.. It's been too long and I think the world could really use one right now.. They accomplish so much.. It'll be great for the north american economy since you can sell all those guns and bombs you have just sitting around.. Might as well start using them on someone.. I've got an idea why don't you just pick some random country and nuke them.. C'mon it'll be hilarious..
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looner2
ABBA fan
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: Redstorm]
#5048581 - 12/11/05 02:57 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Redstorm said: I don't see why Iran can't just have nukes.
Because its irresponsible.
They are a radical islamic state.
They threatened our closest ally and us.
They've lied about their intentions for nuclear weapons.
Oh, and... why do you think they want nuclear weapons? Just for shits?
-------------------- I am in love with Acidic_Sloth
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Redstorm
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: looner2]
#5048613 - 12/11/05 03:04 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
looner2 said:
Quote:
Redstorm said: I don't see why Iran can't just have nukes.
Because its irresponsible.
They are a radical islamic state.
They threatened our closest ally and us.
They've lied about their intentions for nuclear weapons.
Oh, and... why do you think they want nuclear weapons? Just for shits?
Absurd on so many levels.
-It is irresponsible for anyone to have nukes, so perhaps we should lead the way with disarming since we are the world's greatest country.
-When did they threaten us? Where do you draw the line at threaten? According to our good President, somehow Iraq threatened us as well. We don't need to babysit Israel, they have proven they can take care of themselves.
It is foolish to think that they would actually use atomic weapons. The role of the state is to ensure that it continues to exist. A great way to ensure that you won't exist would be to use atomic weapons on someone.
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OJK
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: lonestar2004]
#5048658 - 12/11/05 03:14 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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I hope they don't invade Iran, not only because it would mean the senseless destruction of hundreds of thousands of lives, but also because, when I travelled to Iran, it seemed a fairly nice place to live, compared to how it's portrayed internationally. It's definitely improving.
Of course, they still do some unspeakably bad things - torture and execution and so forth, but it's on the road to improvement.
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Bhairabas
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: OJK]
#5048693 - 12/11/05 03:24 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Most Iranians tell me the opposate..They say poverty is getting worse, in the inner city they have a huge drug, and prostitution problem.. Human rights are actualy getting worse also..
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: OJK]
#5048729 - 12/11/05 03:34 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
I hope they don't invade Iran, not only because it would mean the senseless destruction of hundreds of thousands of lives,
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Ancalagon
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: looner2]
#5048746 - 12/11/05 03:44 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Oh, and... why do you think they want nuclear weapons? Just for shits?
Oh I don't know, perhaps as a deterrent to American invasion? You may have noticed we tend to be quite a bit less beligerent to countries that we feel may have nukes. See diplomacy with North Korea vs diplomacy with Iraq.
Of course, accepting this would, on a broader level, mean accepting that our current foreign policy actually encourages our enemies to develop such weapons, and thus that our current foreign policy isn't perfection, and god forbid.
-------------------- ?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.? -Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'
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looner2
ABBA fan
Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: Redstorm]
#5048767 - 12/11/05 03:53 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Redstorm said: -It is irresponsible for anyone to have nukes, so perhaps we should lead the way with disarming since we are the world's greatest country.
Would it have been irresponsible for us to disarm during the cold-war? No, you know exactly what MAD is and its purpose. We have nuclear weapons now because we can have them. Who is going to stop us?
Quote:
Redstorm said: -When did they threaten us? Where do you draw the line at threaten? According to our good President, somehow Iraq threatened us as well. We don't need to babysit Israel, they have proven they can take care of themselves.
They've threatned us with that look in Ahmadinejad eyes. I know that look!
Plus, Israel is a solid and committed ally to us. In wake of our rift with Europe, we don't have many allies left. A powerful militant one located in the middle east is very convenient.
-------------------- I am in love with Acidic_Sloth
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Redstorm
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: looner2]
#5048784 - 12/11/05 03:56 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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I do know what MAD is (as does Iran), and that is exactly why Iran wants them.
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looner2
ABBA fan
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: Ancalagon]
#5048792 - 12/11/05 03:58 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ancalagon said: Oh I don't know, perhaps as a deterrent to American invasion?
Maybe! Can't blame them. But damn, they are really shooting themselves in the foot if they think seeking nuclear weapons is going to delay the process. Their weaseling will fool Europe. It is almost hilarious. But we cannot let them fool us.
Quote:
Ancalagon said: You may have noticed we tend to be quite a bit less beligerent to countries that we feel may have nukes. See diplomacy with North Korea vs diplomacy with Iraq.
Great point. Time to invade before they get them.
Quote:
Ancalagon said: Of course, accepting this would, on a broader level, mean accepting that our current foreign policy actually encourages our enemies to develop such weapons, and thus that our current foreign policy isn't perfection, and god forbid.
Our current foreign policy as the worlds premiere international actor is our God given right as the most powerful nation on earth. Don't like it? Move to Luxembourg. Just as every world power since us had an active role when they were number #1, so now is our chance.
But honestly, the libertarian rhetoric about isolationism is so boring and tired. It is one thing to wish we didn't get involved in the world as much as we do, but it is quite another to insist our enemies are solely acting on our foreign policy. In short, it requires an immense amount of ignorance towards islamofacism, and a hefty dose of idealism, either way, it does a disfavor to the party. I will never vote libertarian again.
-------------------- I am in love with Acidic_Sloth
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DirtMcgirt
in a pinch
Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2,213
Loc: city of angels
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: looner2]
#5048880 - 12/11/05 04:21 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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it is also another thing to take the other extreame and go insisting that our foreign policy regarding nuclear weapons has nothing to do with other countries wanting to aquire them
-------------------- "And we, inhabitants of the great coral of the Cosmos, believe the atom (which still we cannot see) to be full matter, whereas, it too, like everything else, is but an embroidery of voids in the Void, and we give the name of being, dense and even eternal, to that dance of inconsistencies, that infinite extension that is identified with absolute Nothingness and that spins from its own non-being the illusion of everything."
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looner2
ABBA fan
Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: DirtMcgirt]
#5048888 - 12/11/05 04:22 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Are you responding to me? Who's insisted such a thing?
-------------------- I am in love with Acidic_Sloth
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DirtMcgirt
in a pinch
Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2,213
Loc: city of angels
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: looner2]
#5048956 - 12/11/05 04:37 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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I suppose I stretched your arguement further than you, I apologize. But your constant rants on islam and the use of non-words like islomafascists seems to downplay US foriegn policy's role in the spread of nuclear arms. Sure the fanatics play a role in it all, more than our foriegn polict does. But you want to use foriegn policy to fix a problem that you seem to assume has little to do with it. Its a paradoxical statement.
Also, please don't call Israel our closest ally. It insults me as an American. More like our closest beggar that recieves handouts and favors. Like a welfare mom who makes more than enough money selling crack and robbing people but still gets gov assistance due to the area she lives in and the race she happens to belong to. But in the end she gives nothing back to society or the government
-------------------- "And we, inhabitants of the great coral of the Cosmos, believe the atom (which still we cannot see) to be full matter, whereas, it too, like everything else, is but an embroidery of voids in the Void, and we give the name of being, dense and even eternal, to that dance of inconsistencies, that infinite extension that is identified with absolute Nothingness and that spins from its own non-being the illusion of everything."
Edited by DirtMcgirt (12/11/05 04:40 PM)
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Ancalagon
AgnosticLibertarian
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: looner2]
#5048965 - 12/11/05 04:42 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Our current foreign policy as the worlds premiere international actor is our God given right as the most powerful nation on earth. Don't like it? Move to Luxembourg. Just as every world power since us had an active role when they were number #1, so now is our chance.
Leaving aside the god horseshit, to what end do we take advantage of this 'right?' Is it our god given obligation to exercise power for its own sake? If you honestly believe we have no control over our destiny, that some god has ordained that America has power now and one day it will not and while it has power it should use it to its fullest, then I cannot continue with this discourse.
Quote:
But honestly, the libertarian rhetoric about isolationism is so boring and tired. It is one thing to wish we didn't get involved in the world as much as we do, but it is quite another to insist our enemies are solely acting on our foreign policy. In short, it requires an immense amount of ignorance towards islamofacism, and a hefty dose of idealism, either way, it does a disfavor to the party. I will never vote libertarian again.
I have yet to see a libertarian argue that our foreign policy alone causes terrorism against us -- if you know of one I would appreciate much be directed in his/her direction. The overwhelming majority of libertarians (and every single one that I have seen, to my recollection) argues not that our foreign policy is the sole cause of terrorism against us but rather that many of our actions have lent credence to the pronouncements of an irrational few and turned that irrational few into an irrational many. In short my position is not that hatred towards the west and ill-will towards americans would not exist if we were to do what I advise but rather that it would be have a far smaller following and would perhaps be rendered so marginal a factor in society as to be far less innocuous than it is today.
-------------------- ?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.? -Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'
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ZippoZ
Knomadic
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: Ancalagon]
#5049770 - 12/11/05 08:18 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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anyone see this turning into a WW3?
-------------------- PEACE zippoz "in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption" "People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Loc: South Texas
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: ZippoZ]
#5049866 - 12/11/05 08:40 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zippoz said: anyone see this turning into a WW3?
Something is going to happen.
Israel usually states its policy and what it is capable of doing and lets it go at that....and then they drop the hammer.
IMO we could improve and multiply anti-ballistic missile defenses over Israel and the USA without stopping. And let western Europe talk about Peace and Love all it wants to.
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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Anisotropic
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: lonestar2004]
#5049891 - 12/11/05 08:45 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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I find incredibly flawed logic when one country decides they can have nukes for self defense and others can not. Who decides which countries can and can not, other equally human governments?
O wait that's right I forgot, the T.V. tells me Muslim sand niggers aren't human, there all wife-beating terrorists! Must believe blinky light box MUST BELIEVE BLINKY LIGHT BOX!
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wilshire
free radical
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: lonestar2004]
#5049912 - 12/11/05 08:49 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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this could get ugly.
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: Anisotropic]
#5049965 - 12/11/05 09:00 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Anisotropic said: I find incredibly flawed logic when one country decides they can have nukes for self defense and others can not. Who decides which countries can and can not, other equally human governments?
O wait that's right I forgot, the T.V. tells me Muslim sand niggers aren't human, there all wife-beating terrorists! Must believe blinky light box MUST BELIEVE BLINKY LIGHT BOX!
The logical part of my brain tells me that Iran having lots of oil money and Nukes is not a good idea.
I have also heard the (Left, liberal, socialist, communist, Marxist, whatever they are calling themselves) explain your point. and it is a good one.
let me ask you a question.
How do you think Saudi Arabia (also Muslim sand niggers) feel about Iran having Nukes?
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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Anisotropic
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: lonestar2004]
#5050019 - 12/11/05 09:15 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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"How do you think Saudi Arabia (also Muslim sand niggers) feel about Iran having Nukes?"
Maybe some how similar to how most Americans felt when Russia was a major nuclear threat to them. Maybe how Japanese people felt when they knew America had nukes and they might get attacked.
I don't think anyone should have that much power over other human beings, especially the type of selfish fucks that end up at the top of governments.
BUT, I find it VERYY hypocritical for one country that has nukes to tell other countries they can't have them, because they MIGHT use them.
I bet Iranians aren't to confident in Israelis having nukes either, which most likely partially fuels there drive to get them.
That's basically saying, I have the upper hand, but you're not allowed to level the playing field. Our morals are superior, see or media even only portrays the negative aspects of you're society.
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lonestar2004
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: Anisotropic]
#5050100 - 12/11/05 09:32 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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I have a bad feeling that no matter what happens USA/Bush will get blamed for everything. for example:
if we support Israel and bomb Iran, the world will say we are Terrorist/cowboys...
and if we do nothing and just protect our own ass and Iran Nukes Paris it will be all our fault.
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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looner2
ABBA fan
Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: Ancalagon]
#5050291 - 12/11/05 10:21 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ancalagon said: Leaving aside the god horseshit, to what end do we take advantage of this 'right?' Is it our god given obligation to exercise power for its own sake? If you honestly believe we have no control over our destiny, that some god has ordained that America has power now and one day it will not and while it has power it should use it to its fullest, then I cannot continue with this discourse.
Nah man, I'm an atheist. I use the God thing for effect. But I do believe we have the right to act as the global hammer of justice. Justice in our own interests of course. Hell with humanism. I believe in Americanism. Throughout history there are leaders and there are followers. Some followers want to be leaders. They will chirp and flaunt their shit in attempt to woo the leaders bitches. The leader sometimes has to smack the shit out of them. As an American, I wish the power of world supremacy to be within my hand. Within American's hand. We will do the smacking. Why would I want to relinquish it? Do you think no one will make a desperate grab for the power once we are gone? You live in America, the richest and most powerful nation on earth, and you don't think we should take the role as leader in the world? Too many enuchs in our country.
-------------------- I am in love with Acidic_Sloth
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 4 months, 30 days
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: lonestar2004]
#5050421 - 12/11/05 11:03 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
lonestar2004 said: I have a bad feeling that no matter what happens USA/Bush will get blamed for everything. for example:
if we support Israel and bomb Iran, the world will say we are Terrorist/cowboys...
and if we do nothing and just protect our own ass and Iran Nukes Paris it will be all our fault.
If we bomb Iran, it is our fault. Iran is not going to do anything with the nukes. They are gonna sit on them as leverage, just like everyone else who has them does.
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wilshire
free radical
Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
Loc: SE PA
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: wilshire]
#5050528 - 12/11/05 11:27 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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what do you think iran's response would be?
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GazzBut
Refraction
Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 2 months, 14 days
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: looner2]
#5051287 - 12/12/05 06:31 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Can somebody point me to the conclusive evidence that Iran actually are definitely trying to produce nuclear weapons?
Didnt you gung ho freaks learn anything from Iraq??
WAKE THE FUCK UP
Quote:
You live in America, the richest and most powerful nation on earth, and you don't think we should take the role as leader in the world? Too many enuchs in our country.
Oh grow up monkey brain! Your little cowboy vision of how the world should be is sickeningly pathetic. I would piss myself laughing if it wasnt for the fact that it is at least partially shared by the fucking maniacs who run that out of control freak show over there. People like you are little cells of cancer on this planet..thats why the rest of the world hates you.
-------------------- Always Smi2le
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wilshire
free radical
Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
Loc: SE PA
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: GazzBut]
#5051359 - 12/12/05 07:36 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Can somebody point me to the conclusive evidence that Iran actually are definitely trying to produce nuclear weapons?
probably mossad, if the israelis are seriously considering this and have an actionable plan for carrying it out.
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looner2
ABBA fan
Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: GazzBut]
#5051607 - 12/12/05 09:54 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
GazzBut said: Can somebody point me to the conclusive evidence that Iran actually are definitely trying to produce nuclear weapons?
They want nuclear power and this should be regarded as the same thing. Sorry don't trust them!
Quote:
GazzBut said: WAKE THE FUCK UP
I'm up!!!!!!!!
Quote:
GazzBut said: Oh grow up monkey brain! Your little cowboy vision of how the world should be is sickeningly pathetic. I would piss myself laughing if it wasnt for the fact that it is at least partially shared by the fucking maniacs who run that out of control freak show over there. People like you are little cells of cancer on this planet..thats why the rest of the world hates you.
It is interesting to understand where this common European mentality comes from. For some reason, Britain and other European countries superpower-status is now off-limits for any other nation to seek. Britain was a pretty proud country post WW1 and WW2, and rightly so. But they couldn't maintain their global hegemony and what was seen since then has been a sickening decent into weakness and self-hatred. Year after year they give up their own sovereignty to some pseudo-nationalistic contintental hodgepodge of weaklings. Their only recent success involves a failing welfare state that was established through U.S money and our umbrella of security. You people need to regain some of your pride that you once had and stop this silly notion that since you aren't in charge, no one else can be. You dream up some ridiculous scenario where we are all suppose to live as one, and no one should take the reigns of world justice. It is even more pathetic to see that your only method of imposing this idea is constant and repeated whiny, child-like screams about the evilness of our acts and how we are defying humanity. Gosh, give us a break for a second. I'm reminded of grade-school lunch table and that kid that would smear jelly on his face for attention. His whole gimick got old real quick. Honesty, I pity you Europe, especially Britain. Too see a once strong and good-willed people degenerate is quite sad indeed.
Oh well, so the world turns.
-------------------- I am in love with Acidic_Sloth
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: GazzBut]
#5051670 - 12/12/05 10:20 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
GazzBut said: People like you are little cells of cancer on this planet..thats why the rest of the world hates you.
i have been all over the world. in fact i am now planing my 2006 trip to Italy.
and maybe you are right "the rest of the world does Hate America".
but i have met lots of people who wished they lived in America.
and in many embarrassing/uncomfortable situations I have had mothers and fathers asking me to meet and marry their daughters. so that i would take them back to America....
maybe its not Hate....
maybe its Envy???
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: Anisotropic]
#5052052 - 12/12/05 12:03 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Anisotropic said: I find incredibly flawed logic when one country decides they can have nukes for self defense and others can not. Who decides which countries can and can not, other equally human governments?
O wait that's right I forgot, the T.V. tells me Muslim sand niggers aren't human, there all wife-beating terrorists! Must believe blinky light box MUST BELIEVE BLINKY LIGHT BOX!
Ignoring your obnoxious attempt to tar those who disagree with you as TV watching morons brainwashed by the right wing media (that's a good one) I will get right to the point. Which is this:
Just because we can't put one evil genie back in it's bottle doesn't mean that we should release any more.
Get it?
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looner2
ABBA fan
Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: zappaisgod]
#5052110 - 12/12/05 12:20 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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I like that. Mind if I use it? With proper citation of course.
-------------------- I am in love with Acidic_Sloth
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: looner2]
#5052131 - 12/12/05 12:26 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Any time you want.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: zappaisgod]
#5052135 - 12/12/05 12:27 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Fucking call it your own if you like.
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nakors_junk_bag
Lobster Bisque
Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 2,415
Loc: ethereality
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: zappaisgod]
#5052237 - 12/12/05 12:58 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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If the moralitly shouldn't be policed world wide, why then should here at home should we set laws restricting the rights and possessions of others. If crazy countries can have nukes, how come felons can't have guns here. The inconsistency the left shows is astounding. Quit fucking thinking, you have become so unhinged by your self righteous, smarter, more humanitarian than thou bullshit you can't even see the inconsistency in your ideologies. It is sickening.
fuck the spell checher. ficking grammar police.
-------------------- Asshole
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 4 months, 30 days
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: zappaisgod]
#5052251 - 12/12/05 01:02 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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*This is to no one in particular.
Any state who hopes to gain nuclear weapons should be able to do so. Like I said before, any state actor only want to continue surviving, and using (or even threatening to use) nuclear arms is a sure-fire way to make sure you do not survive. I still have not seen a good argument as to why Iran should not have nuclear power or weapons. The more nuclear parity the world has, the better MAD deterrence will work. As long as these weapons are in the hands of states and not in the hands of non-state actors, we'll be fine.
I would be much more worried about the left over weapons in the ex-Col War countries than Islamic states getting weapons. The weapons in these old Soviet bloc countries are not well-guarded, let along secure.
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looner2
ABBA fan
Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: Redstorm]
#5052277 - 12/12/05 01:10 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Red storm said: *This is to no one in particular.
Any state who hopes to gain nuclear weapons should be able to do so. Like I said before, any state actor only want to continue surviving, and using (or even threatening to use) nuclear arms is a sure-fire way to make sure you do not survive. I still have not seen a good argument as to why Iran should not have nuclear power or weapons. The more nuclear parity the world has, the better MAD deterrence will work. As long as these weapons are in the hands of states and not in the hands of non-state actors, we'll be fine.
I would be much more worried about the left over weapons in the ex-Col War countries than Islamic states getting weapons. The weapons in these old Soviet bloc countries are not well-guarded, let along secure.
I am amazed. You want to allow Iran to have nuclear weapons because they have some sort of "right" to have them? It is nice to know you care about Iran's ability to continue survival and play the global game of "Look what I got!!". I'm happy that you feel as though our safety is second to making sure Iran gets her fair share!
That doesn't even begin to describe the specific circumstances surrounding IRAN having nuclear weapons and the very high possibility they will proliferate these weapons to terrorist groups.
Please remove my saying from your signature. I must have been drunk when I said that. You disappoint me son.
-------------------- I am in love with Acidic_Sloth
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nakors_junk_bag
Lobster Bisque
Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 2,415
Loc: ethereality
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: Redstorm]
#5052280 - 12/12/05 01:11 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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the thing about islmaic states with crazy bam bams is their dogged determination to convert all to allah, or kill and die trying.
72 virgins. all around twenty three years old. nice incentive, I be the perks are nice too.
other people who believed you got virgins when you wnet to heave, along with beer and one eternal fight. The vikings. They conquered northern Europe, crazy berserkers, use to soak their leahter pants in water put them on and run into battle on mushies. They were maniacs, the leather would start constricting because of the effects of the water, the bommies would start zooming and people would die. They invented the blood eagle, a horribly gruesome way to kill their lamed enemies. they would cut their backs open, break their ribs and pull them like wings, then grab each lung and set it on the corresponding rib cage. last pull the heart out and set it in it proper place between the lungs. while they were still living. goddamned motherfuckers and the things they do for their virgin pussy.
-------------------- Asshole
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 4 months, 30 days
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: looner2]
#5052305 - 12/12/05 01:16 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
That doesn't even begin to describe the specific circumstances surrounding IRAN having nuclear weapons and the very high possibility they will proliferate these weapons to terrorist groups.
What other than speculation and irrational paranoia leads you to believe that terrorists will get weapons from Iran? Also, why are we less safe if Iran has nukes. You have no proof or even any sort of evidence that Iran would be willing to use them on us.
Btw, the quote is staying.
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nakors_junk_bag
Lobster Bisque
Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 2,415
Loc: ethereality
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: Redstorm]
#5052344 - 12/12/05 01:23 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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yeah looner stop being a prick to redstorm, you looney bastard(lol), one the few people here, who despite different political views than mine is worthy of the title, genteel soul. Redstorm, stay nice please?
-------------------- Asshole
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 4 months, 30 days
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
#5052354 - 12/12/05 01:24 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Anything for you, sweetheart.
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nakors_junk_bag
Lobster Bisque
Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 2,415
Loc: ethereality
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: Redstorm]
#5052369 - 12/12/05 01:27 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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you are a chick, right?
and call me blackheart.
-------------------- Asshole
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,625
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 44 minutes, 50 seconds
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: Redstorm]
#5052406 - 12/12/05 01:34 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Iran can have nukes...just not ICBM's.
Let the towel heads get technology from the 1960s.....maybee it will start a trend of them stoping wiping thier ass with thier bare hands....
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: Redstorm]
#5052413 - 12/12/05 01:36 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Redstorm said: What other than speculation and irrational paranoia leads you to believe that terrorists will get weapons from Iran? Also, why are we less safe if Iran has nukes. You have no proof or even any sort of evidence that Iran would be willing to use them on us.
Good news. On Thursday, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, president of Iran, who recently called for wiping Israel off the map, moderated his position. In a spirit of statesmanlike compromise, he now wants Israel wiped off the map of the Middle East and wiped onto the map of Europe. "Some European countries insist on saying that Hitler killed millions of innocent Jews in furnaces," President Ahmadinejad told Iranian TV viewers. "Although we don't accept this claim, if we suppose it is true," he added sportingly, "if European countries claim that they have killed Jews in World War II," Mr. Ahmadinejad told Iranian TV, "why don't they provide the Zionist regime with a piece of Europe? Germany and Austria can provide the regime with two or three provinces for this regime to establish itself, and the issue will be resolved. You offer part of Europe and we will support it." Big of you. It's the perfect solution to the "Middle East peace process": out of sight, out of mind. And given that Mr. Ahmadinejad's out of his mind, we're already halfway there. So let's see: We have a Holocaust denier who wants to relocate an entire nation to another continent and he happens to be head of the world's newest nuclear state. (They're not 100 percent fully fledged operational, but happily for them they can drag out the pseudo-negotiations with the European Union until they are. And Washington certainly won't do anything, because after all if we're not 100 percent certain they've got weapons of mass destruction -- which we won't be until there's a big smoking crater live on CNN -- it would be just another Bushitlerburton lie to get us into another war for oil, right?) http://www.washingtontimes.com/commentary/20051211-092550-1912r.htm
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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Prajna
ReliablyUnreliable
Registered: 10/08/05
Posts: 588
Loc: Proud Canadian
Last seen: 17 years, 11 months
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: looner2]
#5052426 - 12/12/05 01:40 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
looner2 said:
Quote:
Red storm said: *This is to no one in particular.
Any state who hopes to gain nuclear weapons should be able to do so. Like I said before, any state actor only want to continue surviving, and using (or even threatening to use) nuclear arms is a sure-fire way to make sure you do not survive. I still have not seen a good argument as to why Iran should not have nuclear power or weapons. The more nuclear parity the world has, the better MAD deterrence will work. As long as these weapons are in the hands of states and not in the hands of non-state actors, we'll be fine.
I would be much more worried about the left over weapons in the ex-Col War countries than Islamic states getting weapons. The weapons in these old Soviet bloc countries are not well-guarded, let along secure.
I am amazed. You want to allow Iran to have nuclear weapons because they have some sort of "right" to have them? It is nice to know you care about Iran's ability to continue survival and play the global game of "Look what I got!!". I'm happy that you feel as though our safety is second to making sure Iran gets her fair share!
That doesn't even begin to describe the specific circumstances surrounding IRAN having nuclear weapons and the very high possibility they will proliferate these weapons to terrorist groups.
Please remove my saying from your signature. I must have been drunk when I said that. You disappoint me son.
Why doesn't Iran have a right to have them?!
Because YOU, the almighty American said so, sorry that won't cut it...
Isn't it hypocritical to say that you need YOUR nukes to have a MAD deterrent against Russia, yet Iran can't have them to defend themselves against Israel.
An intelligent person is able to see the situation as if they were impartial, and judge it based on reality, and not just follow like a little sheep following the team leader that they happen to be playing for at the moment...
If you lived in Iran right now, you'd be arguing the other side of the coin, because your opinion is based only on your own selfish greediness, at least Red storm can see 3 feet past his own self interest to come up with an argument the is somewhat logical to the situation...
The "you" in this case means - the general pro war American -, not YOU personally BTW, however I believe that you might fit into this category...
And also, WTF is wrong with Islamists all of a sudden?! I'm telling you, your country is leading you into a state of hatred and intolerance with their propaganda.
Karma has a BIG lesson coming for America if you guys don't wake up and start fighting back against your own evil leadership...
Look into "Project Northwoods" and tell me that the government doesn't concoct evil schemes to get people fired up to blindly follow whatever they want you too.
Look into the People for a New American Century and their "Rebuilding Americas Defenses" doctrine that basically lays out the EXACT scenario that you guys are following right now, like a blueprint...
That was written in 1992 and lays it all out, war in Iraq, war in Iran...
Listen to little chicken hawks like Wolfowitz telling his people that the doctrine of PNAC will never gain public support, barring "A new pearl Harbor"...
Instead of just following what Rush says today do the research, and see that you are being led by the nose...
Jeez, talk about disappointing...
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nakors_junk_bag
Lobster Bisque
Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 2,415
Loc: ethereality
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: Prajna]
#5052554 - 12/12/05 02:09 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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canada how dare you speak to me of democracy!!!! its an outrage and I won't have it any longer!!!! j/k The cold simple truth is when people are armed equally tempers flare and reason ceases to make an appearance. As soon as these two countures start thinking they are a match for eachother the part of submission is discarded for the part of, I am no longer yo bitch, put your fucking hands up and lets dance, bia. boom boom blow, they are fighting becuase one didn't have the clear and obvious advantage. All through out the natural world you see examples of he who barks loudest has his way. Only when there is no clear advantage or a particular combatant is exceptionally horny does it ever come to blows. Parity would lead itself and us straight to bloody hell, hey canada need i remind if there is a fall out here you aint very far away. Winds of time ever shifting.
-------------------- Asshole
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Prajna
ReliablyUnreliable
Registered: 10/08/05
Posts: 588
Loc: Proud Canadian
Last seen: 17 years, 11 months
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
#5052607 - 12/12/05 02:19 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
nakors_junk_bag said: canada how dare you speak to me of democracy!!!! its an outrage and I won't have it any longer!!!! j/k The cold simple truth is when people are armed equally tempers flare and reason ceases to make an appearance. As soon as these two countures start thinking they are a match for eachother the part of submission is discarded for the part of, I am no longer yo bitch, put your fucking hands up and lets dance, bia. boom boom blow, they are fighting becuase one didn't have the clear and obvious advantage. All through out the natural world you see examples of he who barks loudest has his way. Only when there is no clear advantage or a particular combatant is exceptionally horny does it ever come to blows. Parity would lead itself and us straight to bloody hell, hey canada need i remind if there is a fall out here you aint very far away. Winds of time ever shifting.
First of all, neither one of our countries are a democracy...
Mine is a constitutional monarchy... Yours is a constitutional Republic...
We do not vote on everything, we vote on Representatives...
Second of all, I can barely understand your post on even the most basic level, I guess the only response I really have is... huh?
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Prajna
ReliablyUnreliable
Registered: 10/08/05
Posts: 588
Loc: Proud Canadian
Last seen: 17 years, 11 months
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: Prajna]
#5052624 - 12/12/05 02:23 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Okay I just read it again and I think I get the gist, so your saying that it's okay to fight and kill each other because people are savage and have been fighting for a long time?...
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nakors_junk_bag
Lobster Bisque
Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 2,415
Loc: ethereality
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: Prajna]
#5052675 - 12/12/05 02:31 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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no that is not what I am saying. You have grossly misunderstood my post. Granted my grammar leaves much to be desired. I will clean it up and re post it.
Here is the edited version
canada how dare you speak to me of democracy!!!! its an outrage and I won't have it any longer!!!! j/k. The cold simple truth is when people are armed equally tempers flare and reason ceases to make an appearance. As soon as these two countries start thinking they are a match for eachother the part of submission is discarded for the part of, I am no longer yo bitch, put your fucking hands up and lets dance, bia. boom boom blow. they are fighting becuase one didn't have the clear and obvious advantage. All through out the natural world you see examples of he who barks loudest has his way. Only when there is no clear advantage or a particular combatant is exceptionally horny does it ever come to blows. Parity would lead itself and us straight to bloody hell, hey canada need i remind, if there is a fall out here you aint very far away. Winds of time ever shifting.
By the way, I see nothing wrong grammatically with my statement.
I know full well what are government is. I simplt don't know hwat your is, 50 of the last sixty years your's has seemed a leftist dictatorship, the only thing changing is the face.
-------------------- Asshole
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nakors_junk_bag
Lobster Bisque
Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 2,415
Loc: ethereality
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
#5052712 - 12/12/05 02:39 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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prajan your arguments sound a lot like an impetulent little child asking his mommy why he couldn't have icecream for dinner, "why cause you say so, who are you." daddy steps in and says, "I am your father, you won't talk to me or your mom that way, you simply are not having icecream for dinner. It will spoil your apetite and the nourishment you need to grow strong and healthy are not found in icecream." "You want to be healthy right? Good stop building nukes or we will stop you, undertstood?"
-------------------- Asshole
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nakors_junk_bag
Lobster Bisque
Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 2,415
Loc: ethereality
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
#5052719 - 12/12/05 02:41 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Thats good stuff lonestar, I should find things like this but for some reason I don't ever even think to look. From hence point on I will, i have been inspired. grazzi
-------------------- Asshole
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: Prajna]
#5052759 - 12/12/05 02:47 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prajna said:
Why doesn't Iran have a right to have them?!
Because YOU, the almighty American said so, sorry that won't cut it...
In spite of your simplification, it is not just the US that thinks the fucking nut logs in Iran maybe should be prevented from having them. Or have France, Germany and the UN suddenly become our puppets again?
Isn't it hypocritical to say that you need YOUR nukes to have a MAD deterrent against Russia, yet Iran can't have them to defend themselves against Israel.
When has Israel threatened to "wipe Iran off the map?" Further, although you missed it, the Soviets were sworn to attempt to take us over. Astonishingly, they didn't. Who'd a thunk it.
An intelligent person is able to see the situation as if they were impartial, and judge it based on reality, and not just follow like a little sheep following the team leader that they happen to be playing for at the moment...
I sincerely doubt that you are capable of realizing that someone who disagrees with you might just be massively and demonstrably far more intelligent than you are. The "sheep" thing is tiresome and lazy.
If you lived in Iran right now, you'd be arguing the other side of the coin, because your opinion is based only on your own selfish greediness, at least Red storm can see 3 feet past his own self interest to come up with an argument the is somewhat logical to the situation...
If I was a religious zealot I'd be arguing lots of different things than those I argue now. What I argue now is that it is not in my interest to have religious nut logs who have already attacked the United States, in fact as well as in rhetoric, in possession of nuclear weapons.
The "you" in this case means - the general pro war American -, not YOU personally BTW, however I believe that you might fit into this category...
I fit into that category
And also, WTF is wrong with Islamists all of a sudden?! I'm telling you, your country is leading you into a state of hatred and intolerance with their propaganda.
All of a sudden? My country doesn't lead me, I lead it. Propaganda? This is laughable. Do you read the newspapers in the US? They are overwhelmingly anti-Bush. This nonsense exposes just how far out of touch YOU are with the reality in America. Propaganda?
Karma has a BIG lesson coming for America if you guys don't wake up and start fighting back against your own evil leadership...
Karma is for fools. And, as far as a hardline with Iraq and Iran goes, my government is doing MY bidding. Because I've had enough. I had enough in 1980 and I had more than enough in 2001. I would have leveled Iran in 1980. If that particular little dog had been put down then we might not have all these fleas now.
Look into "Project Northwoods" and tell me that the government doesn't concoct evil schemes to get people fired up to blindly follow whatever they want you too.
Later
Look into the People for a New American Century and their "Rebuilding Americas Defenses" doctrine that basically lays out the EXACT scenario that you guys are following right now, like a blueprint...
That was written in 1992 and lays it all out, war in Iraq, war in Iran...
Iraq should have been finished in 1990. That somebody in 1992 had the same idea as me, that we were going to have to deal with these assholes sooner or later, is no surprise to me. But seeing as you were probably 7 years old then it is no doubt a surprise to you. Earth to Prajna, the world didn't sprout into existence when you took your first lefty civics class.
Listen to little chicken hawks like Wolfowitz telling his people that the doctrine of PNAC will never gain public support, barring "A new pearl Harbor"...
Instead of just following what Rush says today do the research, and see that you are being led by the nose...
Jeez, talk about disappointing...
NO NO NO. As much as the lazy arrogant children like to think that they are the first to ever think about anything and that they have been gifted with the incredible insight of a clean unadulterated (read that as blank) slate free from preconceptions and allowed to wander and glean brilliance from the vacuum that is their experience, we are not all sheep. The direction arrow of command does not go the way you think. We are there because the dopes stirred up the nest enough so that even the reticent said ENOUGH, THIS WILL NOT STAND. There is no peace without strength and we will not tolerate gnats, nor will we allow them to become hornets. It's amazing that you cite the accuracy of the PNAC as an indictment against them. Or are you one of the retards who thinks that it was the US who crashed planes into the towers?
--------------------
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wilshire
free radical
Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
Loc: SE PA
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: zappaisgod]
#5053159 - 12/12/05 03:42 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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the iranian government is closely tied to hezbollah. the iranian president has said that israel should be "wiped off the face of the earth". i think those of you who say that the iranians should be allowed to build nuclear weapons might feel differently if you lived in tel aviv.
for what legitimate purpose do the iranians need nuclear weapons?
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 4 months, 30 days
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: lonestar2004]
#5053196 - 12/12/05 03:49 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
lonestar2004 said:
Quote:
Redstorm said: What other than speculation and irrational paranoia leads you to believe that terrorists will get weapons from Iran? Also, why are we less safe if Iran has nukes. You have no proof or even any sort of evidence that Iran would be willing to use them on us.
Good news. On Thursday, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, president of Iran, who recently called for wiping Israel off the map, moderated his position. In a spirit of statesmanlike compromise, he now wants Israel wiped off the map of the Middle East and wiped onto the map of Europe. "Some European countries insist on saying that Hitler killed millions of innocent Jews in furnaces," President Ahmadinejad told Iranian TV viewers. "Although we don't accept this claim, if we suppose it is true," he added sportingly, "if European countries claim that they have killed Jews in World War II," Mr. Ahmadinejad told Iranian TV, "why don't they provide the Zionist regime with a piece of Europe? Germany and Austria can provide the regime with two or three provinces for this regime to establish itself, and the issue will be resolved. You offer part of Europe and we will support it." Big of you. It's the perfect solution to the "Middle East peace process": out of sight, out of mind. And given that Mr. Ahmadinejad's out of his mind, we're already halfway there. So let's see: We have a Holocaust denier who wants to relocate an entire nation to another continent and he happens to be head of the world's newest nuclear state. (They're not 100 percent fully fledged operational, but happily for them they can drag out the pseudo-negotiations with the European Union until they are. And Washington certainly won't do anything, because after all if we're not 100 percent certain they've got weapons of mass destruction -- which we won't be until there's a big smoking crater live on CNN -- it would be just another Bushitlerburton lie to get us into another war for oil, right?) http://www.washingtontimes.com/commentary/20051211-092550-1912r.htm
That sounds like an Op/Ed piece which still does not answer my question. How are we any more unsafe with Iran having nukes than any other country? Regardless of what that idiot from IRan says, the holocaust has nothing to do with nuclear war (other than the holocaust meaning "burnt offering"). In fact, though irrelevant, he does have a good point. Why is it that the Middle East countries had to cede land for the creation Israel, when it was Europeans who committed these atrocities?
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: Redstorm]
#5053211 - 12/12/05 03:51 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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its "Good News"
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 4 months, 30 days
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: zappaisgod]
#5053281 - 12/12/05 04:06 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
it is not in my interest to have religious nut logs who have already attacked the United States, in fact as well as in rhetoric, in possession of nuclear weapons.
When did the gov't of Iran attack the US?
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Gijith
Daisy Chain Eater
Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
Loc: New York
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: wilshire]
#5053372 - 12/12/05 04:22 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
wilshire said: the iranian government is closely tied to hezbollah. the iranian president has said that israel should be "wiped off the face of the earth". i think those of you who say that the iranians should be allowed to build nuclear weapons might feel differently if you lived in tel aviv.
Due to the fact that I have an IQ over 50, I don't live in Tel Aviv. And due to the fact that I don't live in Tel Aviv, I don't give a fuck about this whole situation.
-------------------- what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?
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Ancalagon
AgnosticLibertarian
Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: wilshire]
#5053385 - 12/12/05 04:24 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
for what legitimate purpose do the iranians need nuclear weapons?
To deter would-be invaders.
-------------------- ?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.? -Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'
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Prajna
ReliablyUnreliable
Registered: 10/08/05
Posts: 588
Loc: Proud Canadian
Last seen: 17 years, 11 months
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: lonestar2004]
#5053482 - 12/12/05 04:54 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Look it's just not logical for anyone to think that MAD should only exist for some and not all...
How can this be refuted?
You guys have to understand that I am an outsider, so I am not swayed by your media, your fear, or your frenzied way of life...
Of course Iran wants the nukes, why wouldn't they? If they don't have them then you guys are going to go over there and beat the shit out of them...
They know that if they had a deterrent you might think twice, and they don't care about the international community because they also know that you'll make up some other reason anyway...just like you did with Iraq...
You know what, I don't agree with Iran's "wiping" remark either, but I don't think that they are stupid enough to actually try anything, nuke or no nuke, because Israel will turn them to glass, and they know it...
That's was MAD is all about...
I really don't think it's that big of a deal, India and Pakistan have nukes, keeping them from going at it...
You and Russia have nukes, keeping you guys from going at it...
You and China have nukes, keeping you guys from going at it...
MAD is working to keep things sane in these areas, why not Iran?
But like always, your media will spin it and vilify and make them into non-humans, give them a catch-phrase, so that the people can see them as non-humans with no God given rights...
You guys will get all fired up out of fear, so that they can manufacture you into complacency once again, so that they can do whatever they hell they want...
And you'll believe it all...
It's sickening to watch...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
BTW I am not one of those who believe that the government was behind 9/11, but I AM one of those who thinks that they had a pretty good idea that SOMETHING was going to happen, yet did nothing, so that they could ride the wave of hatred and galvanize you guys into following the PNAC doctrine, letter by letter...
Shit, their still doing it, why aren't your borders secure NOW then? Why did you just get F's on the changes proposed by the 9/11 commission? I know that the current tactic is to try to discredit them, by saying that they had an agenda, but this isn't true, the 9/11 commission had people from BOTH sides of the isle...
They are doing nothing to shore you up because they don't give a fuck about you, and they never did...
If a few hundred more get killed by someone who walked in from Mexico, why would they care, it just gives them more steam to fuel their pre-planned agenda...
And I think that the left in your country is no better than the right, because I think that your country is really run by cooperate interests and money, shit mine too for that matter, just not as bad...
I really think that you guys are on such a power trip over being "the worlds only superpower", that you are attempting to create a "Pax Americana", or American empire, and I only think this because those that are in power have SAID SO with the PNAC doctrine...
I personally really like Looner2's way of debating this, because in the past he at least had the balls to be truthful, and not hide behind lame excuses, like a coward.
He has basically come out and said. We have power, and we will use it to further ourselves at all cost, just for the sake of taking what we can, while we can...
That is the TRUTH behind America...
You got the power, go for it...but I'm telling you, don't believe the hype, your government really IS headed the way of Germany...
Someday instead of people talking about "Storming the beaches of Normandy, their going to be talking about "Storming the beaches of California"...
Don't say you weren't warned...
Iraq was no threat to you... Iran is no threat to you either... Israel has enough nukes to put Iran on the moon if they want... Iran is just trying to protect itself because it knows it is next on your list...
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nakors_junk_bag
Lobster Bisque
Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 2,415
Loc: ethereality
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: Prajna]
#5053578 - 12/12/05 05:20 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Iran and Iraq and all those fucks want their fucking farmland back from the jews. If you give them a biggers set a cajonies they will undoubetedly try and take it back. Man its not that simple. Most of the middle east is a desert. Israel is fertile arable land. It was originally theirs, THEY WANT IT BACK!!!! THEY WILL KILL FOR IT!!!! Know your shit, damn!!!!! Its all so simple. This whole thing is about farmers, we were all farmers first, them first of all. The cresecent valley. The place civilzation is prportedly to have sprung up even before africa. everything in their religions say they were farmers. the meatphors, the shape of their swords look like scythes. The jews stole it from them. Their religion challenges them to get it back, because that what religions do. They console you and encourage you. They want their shit back!!! They will and are fighting. Give them nukes and see what happens!!!!
-------------------- Asshole
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 4 months, 30 days
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
#5053604 - 12/12/05 05:25 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Are you kidding me? Why would they nuke Israel? If they want it back, that makes no sense.
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nakors_junk_bag
Lobster Bisque
Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 2,415
Loc: ethereality
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: Redstorm]
#5053658 - 12/12/05 05:36 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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they won't nuke israel, it would allow them to engage in all out regular war without fear of nuclear reprisals. right now they are pretty quiet cause the consequences of becoming unruly could get a little hot. Boomomomomommmmmble Iran begins to crumble. If they had nukes they could effectively keep the Americas and our allies out of an encounter with Israel by threatening to start lobbing nukes. Understand how this works? Good I thought so, you seem a like a smart girl.
-------------------- Asshole
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 4 months, 30 days
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
#5053720 - 12/12/05 05:47 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Israel would kick the shit out of Iran.
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looner2
ABBA fan
Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: Ancalagon]
#5053739 - 12/12/05 05:50 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ancalagon said:
Quote:
for what legitimate purpose do the iranians need nuclear weapons?
To deter would-be invaders.
We've known where your allegiance is.
-------------------- I am in love with Acidic_Sloth
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Prajna
ReliablyUnreliable
Registered: 10/08/05
Posts: 588
Loc: Proud Canadian
Last seen: 17 years, 11 months
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
#5053774 - 12/12/05 05:54 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
nakors_junk_bag said: Iran and Iraq and all those fucks want their fucking farmland back from the Jews. If you give them a biggers set a cajonies they will undoubetedly try and take it back. Man its not that simple. Most of the middle east is a desert. Israel is fertile arable land. It was originally theirs, THEY WANT IT BACK!!!! THEY WILL KILL FOR IT!!!! Know your shit, damn!!!!! Its all so simple. This whole thing is about farmers, we were all farmers first, them first of all. The cresecent valley. The place civilzation is prportedly to have sprung up even before africa. everything in their religions say they were farmers. the meatphors, the shape of their swords look like scythes. The jews stole it from them. Their religion challenges them to get it back, because that what religions do. They console you and encourage you. They want their shit back!!! They will and are fighting. Give them nukes and see what happens!!!!
You're incoherent tonight man, sober up, eh?
I KNOW my shit, far more than you do, and it shows...
Of course they want their land back...
They should have it back, and would have it back, if it were not for Americas interference.
From one side of your mouth you seem to spout a Darwinian type message that "might inherently makes right", and then from the other comes a strange pity for Israel?
Israel is living off your dime, if you dumped as much money into protecting yourselves from terrorism as you did in propping up this little puppet proxy, then you wouldn't even have to be fearful of terrorism...
But that is another discussion entirely, and far from my point...
The fact still remains that Iran would NOT nuke Israel without being nuked first, just as you wouldn't nuke Russia, china wouldn't nuke you, etc, etc...
To nuke Israel would be suicide and they know it! Why would they do that?
If you were in the same boat you would be trying to get nukes too, at this point it is the only thing that is going to save them from becoming the next Iraq, and they know it...
Am I the only person that remembers the "Axis of Evil" speech?
BTW, I think that all of this has a little bit more too it than just "farming"...lol
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 4 months, 30 days
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: Prajna]
#5053801 - 12/12/05 05:57 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
They should have it back, and would have it back, if it were not for Americas interference.
How are we keeping the Middle Eastern countries from gaining back land from Israel?
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looner2
ABBA fan
Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: Prajna]
#5053829 - 12/12/05 06:00 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Israel is an awesome ally, regardless of the money we dump into them. We dump money into Africa too, so much for that. We dumped money into Eurocrap, and we only received a backstabbing. Israel is a good pay-off with good fighters.
-------------------- I am in love with Acidic_Sloth
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 4 months, 30 days
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: looner2]
#5053840 - 12/12/05 06:02 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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I am honestly curious. How has Israel substantively helped us gain influence in the Middle East?
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looner2
ABBA fan
Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: Redstorm]
#5053850 - 12/12/05 06:04 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Redstorm said: I am honestly curious. How has Israel substantively helped us gain influence in the Middle East?
I never said anything about influence.
Israel has been a very loyal ally in that when a shitstorm is brewing we work together. Not so from our old allies. In fact, Israel is our only reliable ally in the world. That is something to be cherished, and definitely something to go to war over. Fuck, lets go to Iran with them!
-------------------- I am in love with Acidic_Sloth
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nakors_junk_bag
Lobster Bisque
Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 2,415
Loc: ethereality
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: looner2]
#5053866 - 12/12/05 06:07 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Iran?s population at 70 million is three times that of Iraq?s and it has one of the youngest populations in the world. Iran?s standing army is estimated by the CIA to be 520,000-strong, but each year 817,000 17-year-old Iranian boys are potentially available for military service. That is an awful lot of martyrs or suicide bombers.
I forgot the source, but if you type size Iran's standing army, into yahoo you will see it.
in the next episode, The size of Israel's standing army. stay tuned. my good computer melted, so the ten year old compaq is slowly powering me through these pre holiday hopes.
-------------------- Asshole
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: Redstorm]
#5053895 - 12/12/05 06:12 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Redstorm said:
Quote:
it is not in my interest to have religious nut logs who have already attacked the United States, in fact as well as in rhetoric, in possession of nuclear weapons.
When did the gov't of Iran attack the US?
Iranian students (wink wink) take over US embassy in Iran and hold hostages. Government does nothing. Homo president orders incompetent rescue mission (at end of 4 years as being Commander in Chief). For the final kicker, the lunatic who is now president was, drum roll, one of the fucking students who pulled the job.
Counts in my book, and I do keep one.
--------------------
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Los_Pepes
Stranger
Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 731
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: looner2]
#5053900 - 12/12/05 06:13 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 4 months, 30 days
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: looner2]
#5053902 - 12/12/05 06:13 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
looner2 said: Fuck, lets go to Iran with them!
I expect you would be willing to lead the charge?
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Prajna
ReliablyUnreliable
Registered: 10/08/05
Posts: 588
Loc: Proud Canadian
Last seen: 17 years, 11 months
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: looner2]
#5053909 - 12/12/05 06:14 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
looner2 said:
Quote:
Redstorm said: I am honestly curious. How has Israel substantively helped us gain influence in the Middle East?
I never said anything about influence.
Israel has been a very loyal ally in that when a shit-storm is brewing we work together. Not so from our old allies. In fact, Israel is our only reliable ally in the world. That is something to be cherished, and definitely something to go to war over. Fuck, lets go to Iran with them!
Looner, if Israel does this, do you think it will turn into a "shit-storm" over there? Just curious what you think, because Iran will retaliate against U.S forces in Iraq, IMO, and it will escalate...
What are your thoughts on how it will come down in the end?
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looner2
ABBA fan
Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: Redstorm]
#5053919 - 12/12/05 06:17 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Redstorm said:
Quote:
looner2 said: Fuck, lets go to Iran with them!
I expect you would be willing to lead the charge?
If only they hold off until I'm done training. I would be honored.
-------------------- I am in love with Acidic_Sloth
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looner2
ABBA fan
Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: Prajna]
#5053931 - 12/12/05 06:20 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prajna said:
Quote:
looner2 said:
Quote:
Redstorm said: I am honestly curious. How has Israel substantively helped us gain influence in the Middle East?
I never said anything about influence.
Israel has been a very loyal ally in that when a shit-storm is brewing we work together. Not so from our old allies. In fact, Israel is our only reliable ally in the world. That is something to be cherished, and definitely something to go to war over. Fuck, lets go to Iran with them!
Looner, if Israel does this, do you think it will turn into a "shit-storm" over there? Just curious what you think, because Iran will retaliate against U.S forces in Iraq, IMO, and it will escalate...
What are your thoughts on how it will come down in the end?
If Iran were to retaliate against our forces in Iraq it would a Generals dream. Seeing them march across the desert in an attempt at attacking our forces would lead to a slaughter unseen since Gulf War 1. The only hope they have is if we actively try to take over the country ala Iraq. However, surely our experience in Iraq has changed our perspective on that. We would most likely launch covert operations to take care of specific targets, while the rest of the campaign centered around aerial strikes and bombing. If we did meet their army in an open battlefield our ground forces would annihlate them. Our whole strategy would be to vaporize their military and infastructure and let the power vacuum result in a struggle to gain control of the country. Hopefully the democratic minded students would win.
-------------------- I am in love with Acidic_Sloth
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Los_Pepes
Stranger
Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 731
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: looner2]
#5053964 - 12/12/05 06:26 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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looner2
ABBA fan
Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: Los_Pepes]
#5053988 - 12/12/05 06:28 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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I could care less about anti-semitism.
-------------------- I am in love with Acidic_Sloth
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 4 months, 30 days
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: looner2]
#5053999 - 12/12/05 06:29 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
looner2 said:
Quote:
Redstorm said:
Quote:
looner2 said: Fuck, lets go to Iran with them!
I expect you would be willing to lead the charge?
If only they hold off until I'm done training. I would be honored.
Fair enough. As long as you are willing to back up your words, I respect your opinion, no matter how different they are from mine.
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nakors_junk_bag
Lobster Bisque
Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 2,415
Loc: ethereality
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: looner2]
#5054016 - 12/12/05 06:31 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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MYTH
?The Arab states have had to keep pace with an Israeli-led arms race.?
FACT
In most cases, the reverse was true. Egypt received the Soviet IL-28 bomber in 1955. It was not until 1958 that France provided Israel with a squadron of comparable Sud Vautour twin-jet tactical bombers. In 1957, Egypt obtained MiG-17 fighter planes. Israel received the comparable Super Mystere in 1959. Egypt had submarines in 1957, Israel in 1959. After the Egyptians obtained the MiG-21, the Israelis ordered the Dassault Mirage III supersonic interceptor and fighter-bomber.
Egypt received ground-to-air missiles ? the SA-2 ? two years before Israel obtained HAWK missiles from the United States. Later, Washington reluctantly agreed to sell Israel Patton tanks.
Despite being supplied arms at bargain prices in exchange for cotton, and with long-term, cheap-money credits, Egypt's debt to the USSR was estimated to be $11 billion by 1977.1 Israel had to pay much more, plus interest, for comparable weapons.
Even when the United States began selling arms to Israel in the 1960s, it maintained a policy of balance whereby similar sales were made to Arab states. In 1965, for example, the first major tank sale to Israel was matched by one to Jordan. A year later, when Israel received Skyhawks, the U.S. provided planes to Morocco and Libya, as well as additional military equipment to Lebanon, Saudi Arabia and Tunisia.2
It was not until 1968, when the Johnson Administration sold Israel Phantom jets, that America's arms transfer policy shifted to emphasize maintaining the Jewish State's qualitative advantage. Since then, however, the U.S. has frequently sold sophisticated arms (e.g., F-15s, AWACS and Stinger missiles) to Israel's adversaries, which have eroded the Jewish State's qualitative edge.
www.jewishvirtullibrary.org./jsource/myths/mf23.html
read on my babies.
also why are you putting words in my mouth everytime you challenge my prajna, its pissing me off. you have done it twice, no one said anything bout might vs right, by the way that was T.H White in the book the Once and Future King. Secondly, I am not talking bout pity for the Israel, I am tailking about the countless more civilians that would die if things progressed down the road you would let them. Fucking softy. also when you accused me of saying that fighting was ok because humans were savage you were wrong. Also I am not drunk and your blatant attempt at rendering my thoughts as drunken ramblings and without credibility because I am drunk(which I am not) is low and underhanded even for a pussy softy like you. If you had half the mental prowess of a goldfish then everything I have posted would be clear. No one else has had a problem understanding my position. Thanks kindly
-------------------- Asshole
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 4 months, 30 days
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
#5054040 - 12/12/05 06:35 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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The problem with the selling of weapons to Israel is that the debt is forgiven over and over. If we were actually getting paid for the weapons, that would be quite nice.
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Prajna
ReliablyUnreliable
Registered: 10/08/05
Posts: 588
Loc: Proud Canadian
Last seen: 17 years, 11 months
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: looner2]
#5054047 - 12/12/05 06:37 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Interesting, I was thinking more along the lines of lobbing a few sheehab3's into the green zone or something, one would think them out of their minds to invade with ground forces...
Good job on joining up too, man...
At least you're backing up your point of view, respectable, that...
To put your body on the line for your ideals is brave, I hope I get the chance to do that myself someday, although I'll probably be throwing myself in front of a tank or something at a peace rally...
I was in the reserves over here for 4 years, but that was a long time ago, and all we ever did was drink beer and play cards...
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Prajna
ReliablyUnreliable
Registered: 10/08/05
Posts: 588
Loc: Proud Canadian
Last seen: 17 years, 11 months
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
#5054137 - 12/12/05 06:55 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
nakors_junk_bag said: MYTH
?The Arab states have had to keep pace with an Israeli-led arms race.?
FACT
In most cases, the reverse was true. Egypt received the Soviet IL-28 bomber in 1955. It was not until 1958 that France provided Israel with a squadron of comparable Sud Vautour twin-jet tactical bombers. In 1957, Egypt obtained MiG-17 fighter planes. Israel received the comparable Super Mystere in 1959. Egypt had submarines in 1957, Israel in 1959. After the Egyptians obtained the MiG-21, the Israelis ordered the Dassault Mirage III supersonic interceptor and fighter-bomber.
Egypt received ground-to-air missiles ? the SA-2 ? two years before Israel obtained HAWK missiles from the United States. Later, Washington reluctantly agreed to sell Israel Patton tanks.
Despite being supplied arms at bargain prices in exchange for cotton, and with long-term, cheap-money credits, Egypt's debt to the USSR was estimated to be $11 billion by 1977.1 Israel had to pay much more, plus interest, for comparable weapons.
Even when the United States began selling arms to Israel in the 1960s, it maintained a policy of balance whereby similar sales were made to Arab states. In 1965, for example, the first major tank sale to Israel was matched by one to Jordan. A year later, when Israel received Skyhawks, the U.S. provided planes to Morocco and Libya, as well as additional military equipment to Lebanon, Saudi Arabia and Tunisia.2
It was not until 1968, when the Johnson Administration sold Israel Phantom jets, that America's arms transfer policy shifted to emphasize maintaining the Jewish State's qualitative advantage. Since then, however, the U.S. has frequently sold sophisticated arms (e.g., F-15s, AWACS and Stinger missiles) to Israel's adversaries, which have eroded the Jewish State's qualitative edge.
www.jewishvirtullibrary.org./jsource/myths/mf23.html
read on my babies.
also why are you putting words in my mouth everytime you challenge my prajna, its pissing me off. you have done it twice, no one said anything bout might vs right, by the way that was T.H White in the book the Once and Future King. Secondly, I am not talking bout pity for the Israel, I am tailking about the countless more civilians that would die if things progressed down the road you would let them. Fucking softy. also when you accused me of saying that fighting was ok because humans were savage you were wrong. Also I am not drunk and your blatant attempt at rendering my thoughts as drunken ramblings and without credibility because I am drunk(which I am not) is low and underhanded even for a pussy softy like you. If you had half the mental prowess of a goldfish then everything I have posted would be clear. No one else has had a problem understanding my position. Thanks kindly
Hey I don't mean to put words in your mouth man, really, I apologize if I took you out of context...
I thought I was paraphrasing your position, no offense but I really didn't understand your previous posts all that well. This one is much much clearer, and way more thought out...
If Israel changed it's arms buildup strategy from "just keeping up with the Joneses" in 1968...that like 37 years worth of out of proportion with it's neighbors weapons buildup! That's a lot...
It's the nukes that make the difference though, you have to admit that they trump all...
It's my belief that an Israel without American backing, and without nukes, doesn't exist. The Arabs would take them just in sheer numbers alone, IMO...
BTW man, don't take anything that I say too seriously, I just like a spirited debate...
Gets me in trouble more often than it's worth I suppose, but I enjoy it anyway...
Believe it or not the debating on this forum has taught me a thing or two, and moved me more toward center a bit, which is where we should all be I think...
I am FAR too left wing...
Edited by Prajna (12/12/05 06:56 PM)
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Bhairabas
Stranger
Registered: 07/21/03
Posts: 889
Loc: Toronto Canada
Last seen: 18 years, 1 month
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: Prajna]
#5054947 - 12/12/05 09:28 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Wow you american have such big penis..
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downforpot
Stranger
Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 5,715
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: Prajna]
#5055193 - 12/12/05 10:20 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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"It's my belief that an Israel without American backing, and without nukes, doesn't exist. The Arabs would take them just in sheer numbers alone, IMO..."
Prajna, all of the Arab countrie around Israel tried numerous times to destroy, they succeeded, right?
-------------------- http://www.myspace.com/4th25 "And I don't care if he was handcuffed Then shot in his head All I know is dead bodies Can't fuck with me again"
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Prajna
ReliablyUnreliable
Registered: 10/08/05
Posts: 588
Loc: Proud Canadian
Last seen: 17 years, 11 months
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: downforpot]
#5055238 - 12/12/05 10:30 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Not yet, but I beleive that the time will come, but again, it's just my opinion...
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nakors_junk_bag
Lobster Bisque
Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 2,415
Loc: ethereality
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: Prajna]
#5055766 - 12/13/05 01:18 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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nah praji, I shouldn't have lambasted quite so hard. Sorry for calling you names and the like.
You shouldn't debate people just for the sole purpose of debate, argue what you believe, otherwise its irresponsible and pointless.
you are all right.
-------------------- Asshole
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Phred
Fred's son
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: GazzBut]
#5056023 - 12/13/05 04:37 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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GazzBut, you've been here long enough to know that calling other members "monkey brain" and saying "people like you are little cells of cancer" constitutes flaming. You'd do well to re-read your next post before hitting the button.
Phred
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GazzBut
Refraction
Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 2 months, 14 days
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: looner2]
#5056102 - 12/13/05 05:43 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
It is interesting to understand where this common European mentality comes from. For some reason, Britain and other European countries superpower-status is now off-limits for any other nation to seek. Britain was a pretty proud country post WW1 and WW2, and rightly so. But they couldn't maintain their global hegemony and what was seen since then has been a sickening decent into weakness and self-hatred. Year after year they give up their own sovereignty to some pseudo-nationalistic contintental hodgepodge of weaklings. Their only recent success involves a failing welfare state that was established through U.S money and our umbrella of security. You people need to regain some of your pride that you once had and stop this silly notion that since you aren't in charge, no one else can be. You dream up some ridiculous scenario where we are all suppose to live as one, and no one should take the reigns of world justice. It is even more pathetic to see that your only method of imposing this idea is constant and repeated whiny, child-like screams about the evilness of our acts and how we are defying humanity. Gosh, give us a break for a second. I'm reminded of grade-school lunch table and that kid that would smear jelly on his face for attention. His whole gimick got old real quick. Honesty, I pity you Europe, especially Britain. Too see a once strong and good-willed people degenerate is quite sad indeed.
Nice unsubstantiated rant...made me chuckle anyway!
Basically theres not much point us communicating you are caught up in patriotic pride etc etc whereas I see that is the cause of most problems in the world today.
Its like someone who believes the world is flat talking to someone who has been out to space. Until you go you just wont know!
-------------------- Always Smi2le
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GazzBut
Refraction
Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 2 months, 14 days
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: Phred]
#5056109 - 12/13/05 05:47 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Monkey brain may well be a flame although really it is just a metaphor for the fact that looner's aggressive rhetoric is very similar to simplistic ape politics so is it really a flame?
As for the little cells of cancer bit that is a firm belief of mine so why should I not be able to express it?
Looner and Los_Pepes are allowed to fully express their views on muslims,immigrants etc without sanction..why am I not allowed to express my views on sections of society that I find distasteful?
Anyway unless the person who is supposedly flamed actually complains who cares?
-------------------- Always Smi2le
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 4 months, 30 days
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: GazzBut]
#5056539 - 12/13/05 10:03 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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You flamed him. Give it up and stop making excuses. Unless you can act civilized, you will eventually be banned.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 4 months, 30 days
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: GazzBut]
#5056544 - 12/13/05 10:05 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Its like someone who believes the world is flat talking to someone who has been out to space. Until you go you just wont know!
That is not a valid comparison whatsoever. What you are debating in this thread is a matter or opinion. Your is no more correct than his is. It is far different than determining whether or not the world is flat. YOur opinion is not superior to anyone elses'.
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Phred
Fred's son
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: GazzBut]
#5057701 - 12/13/05 01:58 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well, I thought I'd cut you some slack and give you an unofficial head's up rather than make it a warning on the record. I figured you'd appreciate the gesture. Guess that'll teach me, huh?
You have now been officially warned.
Phred
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: Ancalagon]
#5059179 - 12/13/05 07:09 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ancalagon said:
Quote:
for what legitimate purpose do the iranians need nuclear weapons?
To deter would-be invaders.
Is that all Rafsanjani wants???
"The Zionist entity's days are numbered, former Iranian President Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani said in a meeting with senior Hamas member Khaled Mashal, according to an Islamic Republic News Agency report.
RAFSANJANI SAYS MUSLIMS SHOULD USE NUCLEAR WEAPON AGAINST ISRAEL
One of Iran?s most influential ruling clerics called on the Muslim states to use nuclear weapon against Israel , assuring them that while such an attack would annihilate Israel, it would cost them "damages only".
"If a day comes when the world of Islam is duly equipped with the arms Israel has in its possession, the strategy of colonialism would face a stalemate because application of an atomic bomb would not leave anything in Israel but the same thing would just produce damages in the Muslim world", Former Iranian President Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani told the crowd at the traditional Friday prayers in Tehran."
"Jews shall expect to be once again scattered and wandering around the globe the day when this appendix is extracted from the region and the Muslim world", Mr. Hashemi-Rafsanjani warned, blaming on the United States and Britain the "creation of the fabricated entity" in the heart of Arab and Muslim world.
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&q=Form...rch&sa=N&tab=wn
http://www.ynetnews.com/Ext/Comp/ArticleLayout/CdaArticlePrintPreview/1,2506,L-3183664,00.html
http://www.iran-press-service.com/articles_2001/dec_2001/rafsanjani_nuke_threats_141201.htm
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
Edited by lonestar2004 (12/13/05 07:10 PM)
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GazzBut
Refraction
Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 2 months, 14 days
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: Redstorm]
#5061303 - 12/14/05 08:16 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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im not really interested in your opinions Red.
-------------------- Always Smi2le
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GazzBut
Refraction
Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 2 months, 14 days
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: Phred]
#5061308 - 12/14/05 08:17 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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get over yourself Phred!
-------------------- Always Smi2le
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 1 month, 9 days
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: GazzBut]
#5061432 - 12/14/05 08:49 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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*sigh* Please stay on topic with the replies. Directing comments towards a poster rather than debating the topic is skirting the line of flamage. I hate to see people giving the moderators extra work, they are busy enough as is.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 4 months, 30 days
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: GazzBut]
#5061483 - 12/14/05 09:05 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
GazzBut said: im not really interested in your opinions Red.
Thank God for being open to debate and discussion. If you don't care about opinions other than your own, then I suggest that you don't frequent this forum.
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GazzBut
Refraction
Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 2 months, 14 days
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: Redstorm]
#5061760 - 12/14/05 10:04 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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I find many of the opinions preseneted here refreshing and interesting and some of them sickening and bewildering. I just have no interest in yours in this particular thread as is my perrogative...now run along little chap and try and get your knickers untwisted.
-------------------- Always Smi2le
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GazzBut
Refraction
Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 2 months, 14 days
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: Seuss]
#5061763 - 12/14/05 10:05 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
-------------------- Always Smi2le
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 4 months, 30 days
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: GazzBut]
#5061857 - 12/14/05 10:32 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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*prerogative
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GazzBut
Refraction
Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 2 months, 14 days
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: Redstorm]
#5063193 - 12/14/05 04:08 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Thanks!
-------------------- Always Smi2le
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Darcho
PhysicallyDetermined
Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 426
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: GazzBut]
#5065218 - 12/15/05 12:01 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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There is nothing wrong with Iran wanting nuclear capabilities: its called deterrence!
Its working fairly well for North Korea. Odd isn't it, how North Korea was more of a threat than Iraq, and yet... Iraq was invaded and not North Korea. This sends out the message: "Hey, if you actually have WMDs, well, we probably won't invade you." Think about it, if Iraq actually had WMDs, actually had nuclear weapons, would the US have risked an invasion that could spark a nuclear war? Probably not.
They have set the stage for other countries: Don't want to be invaded? Then follow North Korea's route, and get a deterrent.
Iran sees this, and now they want to follow suit. Venezuela is taking notes too.
Its dangerous, sure, but weapons and war are dangerous. When an all powerful empire makes it seem like they might invade you with fire, how do you fight them back? Its obvious: with fire!
As for the whole anti-Israel thing, Ahmadinejad has some good points (granted, there is no justification for killing them all):
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/st...?hub=TopStories
Why doesn't Germany give them land to build a nation with? I mean, hey they were the ones who supposedly wronged the Jews the most. Or how about Canada or, yes, even the USA, since they are such large supporters of Israel and have so much land to spare.
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GazzBut
Refraction
Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 2 months, 14 days
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: Darcho]
#5065607 - 12/15/05 02:08 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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The thing is I dont think it has been proved conclusively that they are definitely pursuing nuclear weapons. I find it astounding that the anyone would believe they are without extremely good evidence that proves without doubt that this is the case. It wasnt that long ago these same people were claiming we would definitely find Saddams WMD's etc etc.
I would hate to see more lies being used to excuse killing innocent Iranians.
-------------------- Always Smi2le
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