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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: Ancalagon]
    #5048792 - 12/11/05 03:58 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Ancalagon said:
Oh I don't know, perhaps as a deterrent to American invasion?




Maybe! Can't blame them. But damn, they are really shooting themselves in the foot if they think seeking nuclear weapons is going to delay the process. Their weaseling will fool Europe. It is almost hilarious. But we cannot let them fool us.

Quote:

Ancalagon said:
You may have noticed we tend to be quite a bit less beligerent to countries that we feel may have nukes. See diplomacy with North Korea vs diplomacy with Iraq.




Great point. Time to invade before they get them.

Quote:

Ancalagon said:
Of course, accepting this would, on a broader level, mean accepting that our current foreign policy actually encourages our enemies to develop such weapons, and thus that our current foreign policy isn't perfection, and god forbid.




Our current foreign policy as the worlds premiere international actor is our God given right as the most powerful nation on earth. Don't like it? Move to Luxembourg. Just as every world power since us had an active role when they were number #1, so now is our chance.

But honestly, the libertarian rhetoric about isolationism is so boring and tired. It is one thing to wish we didn't get involved in the world as much as we do, but it is quite another to insist our enemies are solely acting on our foreign policy. In short, it requires an immense amount of ignorance towards islamofacism, and a hefty dose of idealism, either way, it does a disfavor to the party. I will never vote libertarian again.


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I am in love with Acidic_Sloth


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InvisibleDirtMcgirt
in a pinch
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Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2,213
Loc: city of angels
Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: looner2]
    #5048880 - 12/11/05 04:21 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

it is also another thing to take the other extreame and go insisting that our foreign policy regarding nuclear weapons has nothing to do with other countries wanting to aquire them


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"And we, inhabitants of the great coral of the Cosmos, believe the atom (which still we cannot see) to be full matter, whereas, it too, like everything else, is but an embroidery of voids in the Void, and we give the name of being, dense and even eternal, to that dance of inconsistencies, that infinite extension that is identified with absolute Nothingness and that spins from its own non-being the illusion of everything."

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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: DirtMcgirt]
    #5048888 - 12/11/05 04:22 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Are you responding to me? Who's insisted such a thing?


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I am in love with Acidic_Sloth


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InvisibleDirtMcgirt
in a pinch
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Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2,213
Loc: city of angels
Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: looner2]
    #5048956 - 12/11/05 04:37 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I suppose I stretched your arguement further than you, I apologize. But your constant rants on islam and the use of non-words like islomafascists seems to downplay US foriegn policy's role in the spread of nuclear arms. Sure the fanatics play a role in it all, more than our foriegn polict does. But you want to use foriegn policy to fix a problem that you seem to assume has little to do with it. Its a paradoxical statement.


Also, please don't call Israel our closest ally. It insults me as an American. More like our closest beggar that recieves handouts and favors. Like a welfare mom who makes more than enough money selling crack and robbing people but still gets gov assistance due to the area she lives in and the race she happens to belong to. But in the end she gives nothing back to society or the government


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"And we, inhabitants of the great coral of the Cosmos, believe the atom (which still we cannot see) to be full matter, whereas, it too, like everything else, is but an embroidery of voids in the Void, and we give the name of being, dense and even eternal, to that dance of inconsistencies, that infinite extension that is identified with absolute Nothingness and that spins from its own non-being the illusion of everything."

Edited by DirtMcgirt (12/11/05 04:40 PM)

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OfflineAncalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: looner2]
    #5048965 - 12/11/05 04:42 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:


Our current foreign policy as the worlds premiere international actor is our God given right as the most powerful nation on earth. Don't like it? Move to Luxembourg. Just as every world power since us had an active role when they were number #1, so now is our chance.



Leaving aside the god horseshit, to what end do we take advantage of this 'right?' Is it our god given obligation to exercise power for its own sake? If you honestly believe we have no control over our destiny, that some god has ordained that America has power now and one day it will not and while it has power it should use it to its fullest, then I cannot continue with this discourse.

Quote:


But honestly, the libertarian rhetoric about isolationism is so boring and tired. It is one thing to wish we didn't get involved in the world as much as we do, but it is quite another to insist our enemies are solely acting on our foreign policy. In short, it requires an immense amount of ignorance towards islamofacism, and a hefty dose of idealism, either way, it does a disfavor to the party. I will never vote libertarian again.



I have yet to see a libertarian argue that our foreign policy alone causes terrorism against us -- if you know of one I would appreciate much be directed in his/her direction. The overwhelming majority of libertarians (and every single one that I have seen, to my recollection) argues not that our foreign policy is the sole cause of terrorism against us but rather that many of our actions have lent credence to the pronouncements of an irrational few and turned that irrational few into an irrational many. In short my position is not that hatred towards the west and ill-will towards americans would not exist if we were to do what I advise but rather that it would be have a far smaller following and would perhaps be rendered so marginal a factor in society as to be far less innocuous than it is today.


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?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'

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InvisibleZippoZM
Knomadic
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Registered: 06/17/03
Posts: 13,227
Loc: Pongyang, North Korea
Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: Ancalagon]
    #5049770 - 12/11/05 08:18 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

anyone see this turning into a WW3?


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PEACE

:mushroom2:zippoz:mushroom2:



"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."

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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: ZippoZ]
    #5049866 - 12/11/05 08:40 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zippoz said:
anyone see this turning into a WW3?




Something is going to happen.

Israel usually states its policy and what it is capable of doing and lets it go at that....and then they drop the hammer.


IMO we could improve and multiply anti-ballistic missile defenses over Israel and the USA without stopping. And let western Europe talk about Peace and Love all it wants to.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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OfflineAnisotropic
Stranger
Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 538
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: lonestar2004]
    #5049891 - 12/11/05 08:45 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I find incredibly flawed logic when one country decides they can have nukes for self defense and others can not. Who decides which countries can and can not, other equally human governments?

O wait that's right I forgot, the T.V. tells me Muslim sand niggers aren't human, there all wife-beating terrorists! Must believe blinky light box MUST BELIEVE BLINKY LIGHT BOX!

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Offlinewilshire
free radical
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Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
Loc: SE PA
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: lonestar2004]
    #5049912 - 12/11/05 08:49 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

this could get ugly.


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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: Anisotropic]
    #5049965 - 12/11/05 09:00 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Anisotropic said:
I find incredibly flawed logic when one country decides they can have nukes for self defense and others can not. Who decides which countries can and can not, other equally human governments?

O wait that's right I forgot, the T.V. tells me Muslim sand niggers aren't human, there all wife-beating terrorists! Must believe blinky light box MUST BELIEVE BLINKY LIGHT BOX!






The logical part of my brain tells me that Iran having lots of oil money and Nukes is not a good idea.

I have also heard the (Left, liberal, socialist, communist, Marxist, whatever they are calling themselves) explain your point. and it is a good one.


let me ask you a question.

How do you think Saudi Arabia (also Muslim sand niggers) feel about Iran having Nukes?


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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OfflineAnisotropic
Stranger
Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 538
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: lonestar2004]
    #5050019 - 12/11/05 09:15 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

"How do you think Saudi Arabia (also Muslim sand niggers) feel about Iran having Nukes?"

Maybe some how similar to how most Americans felt when Russia was a major nuclear threat to them. Maybe how Japanese people felt when they knew America had nukes and they might get attacked.

I don't think anyone should have that much power over other human beings, especially the type of selfish fucks that end up at the top of governments.

BUT, I find it VERYY hypocritical for one country that has nukes to tell other countries they can't have them, because they MIGHT use them.

I bet Iranians aren't to confident in Israelis having nukes either, which most likely partially fuels there drive to get them.

That's basically saying, I have the upper hand, but you're not allowed to level the playing field. Our morals are superior, see or media even only portrays the negative aspects of you're society.

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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: Anisotropic]
    #5050100 - 12/11/05 09:32 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I have a bad feeling that no matter what happens USA/Bush will get blamed for everything. for example:

if we support Israel and bomb Iran, the world will say we are Terrorist/cowboys...

and if we do nothing and just protect our own ass and Iran Nukes Paris it will be all our fault.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: Ancalagon]
    #5050291 - 12/11/05 10:21 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Ancalagon said:
Leaving aside the god horseshit, to what end do we take advantage of this 'right?' Is it our god given obligation to exercise power for its own sake? If you honestly believe we have no control over our destiny, that some god has ordained that America has power now and one day it will not and while it has power it should use it to its fullest, then I cannot continue with this discourse.




Nah man, I'm an atheist. I use the God thing for effect. But I do believe we have the right to act as the global hammer of justice. Justice in our own interests of course. Hell with humanism. I believe in Americanism. Throughout history there are leaders and there are followers. Some followers want to be leaders. They will chirp and flaunt their shit in attempt to woo the leaders bitches. The leader sometimes has to smack the shit out of them. As an American, I wish the power of world supremacy to be within my hand. Within American's hand. We will do the smacking. Why would I want to relinquish it? Do you think no one will make a desperate grab for the power once we are gone? You live in America, the richest and most powerful nation on earth, and you don't think we should take the role as leader in the world? Too many enuchs in our country.


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth


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OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
Male

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: lonestar2004]
    #5050421 - 12/11/05 11:03 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
I have a bad feeling that no matter what happens USA/Bush will get blamed for everything. for example:

if we support Israel and bomb Iran, the world will say we are Terrorist/cowboys...

and if we do nothing and just protect our own ass and Iran Nukes Paris it will be all our fault.




If we bomb Iran, it is our fault. Iran is not going to do anything with the nukes. They are gonna sit on them as leverage, just like everyone else who has them does.

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Offlinewilshire
free radical
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Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
Loc: SE PA
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: wilshire]
    #5050528 - 12/11/05 11:27 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

what do you think iran's response would be?


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 2 months, 14 days
Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: looner2]
    #5051287 - 12/12/05 06:31 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Can somebody point me to the conclusive evidence that Iran actually are definitely trying to produce nuclear weapons?

Didnt you gung ho freaks learn anything from Iraq??

WAKE THE FUCK UP

Quote:

You live in America, the richest and most powerful nation on earth, and you don't think we should take the role as leader in the world? Too many enuchs in our country.




Oh grow up monkey brain! Your little cowboy vision of how the world should be is sickeningly pathetic. I would piss myself laughing if it wasnt for the fact that it is at least partially shared by the fucking maniacs who run that out of control freak show over there. People like you are little cells of cancer on this planet..thats why the rest of the world hates you.


--------------------
Always Smi2le

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Offlinewilshire
free radical
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Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
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Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: GazzBut]
    #5051359 - 12/12/05 07:36 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Can somebody point me to the conclusive evidence that Iran actually are definitely trying to produce nuclear weapons?

probably mossad, if the israelis are seriously considering this and have an actionable plan for carrying it out.


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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: GazzBut]
    #5051607 - 12/12/05 09:54 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

GazzBut said:
Can somebody point me to the conclusive evidence that Iran actually are definitely trying to produce nuclear weapons?




They want nuclear power and this should be regarded as the same thing. Sorry don't trust them!

Quote:

GazzBut said:
WAKE THE FUCK UP




I'm up!!!!!!!!

Quote:

GazzBut said:
Oh grow up monkey brain! Your little cowboy vision of how the world should be is sickeningly pathetic. I would piss myself laughing if it wasnt for the fact that it is at least partially shared by the fucking maniacs who run that out of control freak show over there. People like you are little cells of cancer on this planet..thats why the rest of the world hates you.




It is interesting to understand where this common European mentality comes from. For some reason, Britain and other European countries superpower-status is now off-limits for any other nation to seek. Britain was a pretty proud country post WW1 and WW2, and rightly so. But they couldn't maintain their global hegemony and what was seen since then has been a sickening decent into weakness and self-hatred. Year after year they give up their own sovereignty to some pseudo-nationalistic contintental hodgepodge of weaklings. Their only recent success involves a failing welfare state that was established through U.S money and our umbrella of security. You people need to regain some of your pride that you once had and stop this silly notion that since you aren't in charge, no one else can be. You dream up some ridiculous scenario where we are all suppose to live as one, and no one should take the reigns of world justice. It is even more pathetic to see that your only method of imposing this idea is constant and repeated whiny, child-like screams about the evilness of our acts and how we are defying humanity. Gosh, give us a break for a second. I'm reminded of grade-school lunch table and that kid that would smear jelly on his face for attention. His whole gimick got old real quick. Honesty, I pity you Europe, especially Britain. Too see a once strong and good-willed people degenerate is quite sad indeed.

Oh well, so the world turns.


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth


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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: GazzBut]
    #5051670 - 12/12/05 10:20 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

GazzBut said:
People like you are little cells of cancer on this planet..thats why the rest of the world hates you.





i have been all over the world. in fact i am now planing my 2006 trip to Italy.

and maybe you are right "the rest of the world does Hate America".

but i have met lots of people who wished they lived in America.

and in many embarrassing/uncomfortable situations I have had mothers and fathers asking me to meet and marry their daughters. so that i would take them back to America....


maybe its not Hate....

maybe its Envy???


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran..... [Re: Anisotropic]
    #5052052 - 12/12/05 12:03 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Anisotropic said:
I find incredibly flawed logic when one country decides they can have nukes for self defense and others can not. Who decides which countries can and can not, other equally human governments?

O wait that's right I forgot, the T.V. tells me Muslim sand niggers aren't human, there all wife-beating terrorists! Must believe blinky light box MUST BELIEVE BLINKY LIGHT BOX!




Ignoring your obnoxious attempt to tar those who disagree with you as TV watching morons brainwashed by the right wing media (that's a good one) I will get right to the point. Which is this:

Just because we can't put one evil genie back in it's bottle doesn't mean that we should release any more.

Get it?


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