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OfflineHagbardCeline
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UN Inspectors: Saddam shipped out WMD before and after war
    #2785945 - 06/11/04 08:14 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/breaking_1.html
UN inspectors: Saddam shipped out WMD before war and after



SPECIAL TO WORLD TRIBUNE.COM
Friday, June 11, 2004
The United Nations has determined that Saddam Hussein shipped weapons of mass destruction components as well as medium-range ballistic missiles before, during and after the U.S.-led war against Iraq in 2003.

The UN Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission briefed the Security Council on new findings that could help trace the whereabouts of Saddam's missile and WMD program.

The briefing contained satellite photographs that demonstrated the speed with which Saddam dismantled his missile and WMD sites before and during the war. Council members were shown photographs of a ballistic missile site outside Baghdad in May 2003, and then saw a satellite image of the same location in February 2004, in which facilities had disappeared.


UNMOVIC acting executive chairman Demetrius Perricos told the council on June 9 that "the only controls at the borders are for the weight of the scrap metal, and to check whether there are any explosive or radioactive materials within the scrap," Middle East Newsline reported.
"It's being exported," Perricos said after the briefing. "It's being traded out. And there is a large variety of scrap metal from very new to very old, and slowly, it seems the country is depleted of metal."

"The removal of these materials from Iraq raises concerns with regard to proliferation risks," Perricos told the council. Perricos also reported that inspectors found Iraqi WMD and missile components shipped abroad that still contained UN inspection tags.

He said the Iraqi facilities were dismantled and sent both to Europe and around the Middle East. at the rate of about 1,000 tons of metal a month. Destionations included Jordan, the Netherlands and Turkey.

The Baghdad missile site contained a range of WMD and dual-use components, UN officials said. They included missile components, reactor vessel and fermenters ? the latter required for the production of chemical and biological warheads.

"It raises the question of what happened to the dual-use equipment, where is it now and what is it being used for," Ewen Buchanan, Perricos's spokesman, said. "You can make all kinds of pharmaceutical and medicinal products with a fermenter. You can also use it to breed anthrax."

The UNMOVIC report said Iraqi missiles were dismantled and exported to such countries as Jordan, the Netherlands and Turkey. In the Dutch city of Rotterdam, an SA-2 surface-to-air missile, one of at least 12, was discovered in a junk yard, replete with UN tags. In Jordan, UN inspectors found 20 SA-2 engines as well as components for solid-fuel for missiles.

"The problem for us is that we don't know what may have passed through these yards and other yards elsewhere," Buchanan said. "We can't really assess the significance and don't know the full extent of activity that could be going on there or with others of Iraq's neighbors."

UN inspectors have assessed that the SA-2 and the short-range Al Samoud surface-to-surface missile were shipped abroad by agents of the Saddam regime. Buchanan said UNMOVIC plans to inspect other sites, including in Turkey.

In April, International Atomic Energy Agency director-general Mohammed El Baradei said material from Iraqi nuclear facilities were being smuggled out of the country.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: UN Inspectors: Saddam shipped out WMD before and after war [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2786335 - 06/11/04 10:48 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

The only way I could see Saddam doing this is if he had the makings of nuclear weapons or other serious weapons, yet they were not fully assembled or he needed a few more components. Otherwise, it seems doubtful he'd ship his only source of defense to another country as he was being invaded


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: UN Inspectors: Saddam shipped out WMD before and after war [Re: Ravus]
    #2786405 - 06/11/04 11:20 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Maybe the plan was to let America take the country and then use the WMD to take itr back after we left?


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: UN Inspectors: Saddam shipped out WMD before and after war [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2786872 - 06/12/04 02:32 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

The United Nations has determined that Saddam Hussein shipped weapons of mass destruction components as well as medium-range ballistic missiles before, during and after the U.S.-led war against Iraq in 2003.

So Saddam was shipping the "WMD" to Holland AFTER the war? From his hole in the ground?

Do we know where he was shipping the scientists/workers involved in making the "WMD"?

Forgive me for having doubts about the latest "WMD" story, but I'd rather wait a while for verification..


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: UN Inspectors: Saddam shipped out WMD before and after war [Re: Xlea321]
    #2786877 - 06/12/04 02:34 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I would expect nothing less.


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: UN Inspectors: Saddam shipped out WMD before and after war [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2786885 - 06/12/04 02:36 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

You seriously still believe there were WMD in Iraq?


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: UN Inspectors: Saddam shipped out WMD before and after war [Re: Xlea321]
    #2786925 - 06/12/04 02:56 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I think it's unlikely that stockpiles existed.

However, I still think they constituted a threat. According to David Kay's report, Saddam had maintained the ability to resume production of chemical or biological agents and amass stockpiles within 6 months . He had remained commited to aquiring these weapons and clearly had no intention of giving them up.

I think that most dangerous component of this threat was his regime. It was corrupt, with a wide-spread concerted effort in obtaining the technology and components they needed for programs. With inadequte oversight and pervasive corruption in his regime, the chance these weapons would be sold or given to terrorist is almost certain.


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: UN Inspectors: Saddam shipped out WMD before and after war [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2786949 - 06/12/04 03:14 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I think it's unlikely that stockpiles existed.

What do you believe did exist?

Saddam had maintained the ability to resume production of chemical or biological agents and amass stockpiles within 6 months

Within 6 months of what? There were 12 years between 1991 and 2003, why hadn't he resumed production?

He had remained commited to aquiring these weapons

What is this "remained committed" shit? So it's ok for the cops to come in and bust you because they say you "remained committed" to taking an illegal drug again at some point in your life? Don't you think SOMETHING solid has to be exist first?

clearly had no intention of giving them up.

Except the WMD arn't there. So he clearly had given them up.

I think that most dangerous component of this threat was his regime

Well it sure as hell wasn't the WMD was it.

With inadequte oversight and pervasive corruption in his regime, the chance these weapons would be sold or given to terrorist is almost certain.

But this is just fantasy isn't it. He'd had 12 years to give a "terrorist" a WMD. He hadn't. My guess is he wouldn't have seen any point in giving the US a reason to invade.


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: UN Inspectors: Saddam shipped out WMD before and after war [Re: Xlea321]
    #2787097 - 06/12/04 06:34 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I think that most dangerous component of this threat was his regime




How was his regime a dangerous threat??


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: UN Inspectors: Saddam shipped out WMD before and after w [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2787142 - 06/12/04 07:48 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Strange how we can't find anyone to collect the reward money for producing the WMD.

Where is the logic in shipping out your only method of defense before your country is took place?



How could all evidence of WMD production be concealed once the invasion happened?




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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: UN Inspectors: Saddam shipped out WMD before and after w [Re: Learyfan]
    #2787291 - 06/12/04 10:49 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I wouldn't worry about trying to figure questions like that out Leary - we're in the realms of thinking up explanations for something not existing. We'd be as accurate saying the martians landed and took the WMD away with them.


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Offlinest0nedphucker
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Re: UN Inspectors: Saddam shipped out WMD before and after war [Re: Xlea321]
    #2787304 - 06/12/04 10:59 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

What is this "remained committed" shit? So it's ok for the cops to come in and bust you because they say you "remained committed" to taking an illegal drug again at some point in your life? Don't you think SOMETHING solid has to be exist first?




I certainly and the majority of people would see quite a big difference in the risk posed by someone taking an illegal drug in their home and that of a country's/madman's wish to aquire biological, chemical  or even nuclear weapons....

Quote:

Except the WMD arn't there. So he clearly had given them up.




How is it clear? How can you be certain..

I'd like to see some form of proof that

a) Iraq never possesed "WMD"
b) Iraq's "WMD" were not dismantled
c) Iraq's "WMD" were not exported


Quote:

Well it sure as hell wasn't the WMD was it.




To his own people no, he looked after them himself. Although im sure neighbouring countries would have been ever so slightly concerned  :smirk:

Quote:

But this is just fantasy isn't it. He'd had 12 years to give a "terrorist" a WMD. He hadn't. My guess is he wouldn't have seen any point in giving the US a reason to invade.




Questionable, there are still a lot of his stockpiles unaccounted for, according to UN reports anyway.


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: UN Inspectors: Saddam shipped out WMD before and after w [Re: Xlea321]
    #2787309 - 06/12/04 11:07 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

What was I thinking?

:smirk:







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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: UN Inspectors: Saddam shipped out WMD before and after war [Re: Xlea321]
    #2787378 - 06/12/04 11:43 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

What do you believe did exist?

What David Kay's report has tentatively verified existed.

Within 6 months of what? There were 12 years between 1991 and 2003, why hadn't he resumed production?

Within 6 months of Saddam saying "I would now like to resume production."  He was under a bit of scrutiny, so it seems he found to easier to hide the programs and components than the actual weapons themselves.

What is this "remained committed" shit? So it's ok for the cops to come in and bust you because they say you "remained committed" to taking an illegal drug again at some point in your life? Don't you think SOMETHING solid has to be exist first?

Something solid in fact existed.  All the evidence was laid out in the report.  You haven't bothered reading it have you. :shake:

Except the WMD arn't there. So he clearly had given them up.

Though the majority of his stockpiles may have been dismantled or destroyed, he retained the ability to produce them.  He also continued R&D on the weapons and delivery systems.  No one in their right mind can claim he was fully complying with his obligations under the agreement he signed.

But this is just fantasy isn't it. He'd had 12 years to give a "terrorist" a WMD. He hadn't. My guess is he wouldn't have seen any point in giving the US a reason to invade.  

My point was that even if he had no intention of supplying terrorists with the weapons, he had little control over the rest of his corrupt regime.


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Re: UN Inspectors: Saddam shipped out WMD before and after w [Re: Learyfan]
    #2787491 - 06/12/04 12:41 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
Strange how we can't find anyone to collect the reward money for producing the WMD.



The same can be said for Osama Bin Laden, but I'm fairly sure he exists.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: UN Inspectors: Saddam shipped out WMD before and after war [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2787526 - 06/12/04 12:52 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

What David Kay's report has tentatively verified existed.

David Kay has said "The WMD simply wern't there".

Within 6 months of Saddam saying "I would now like to resume production

Maybe he'd say that - he might say "Lets invade Israel tomorrow" too. So what? We can worry about what Saddam might say until we're all grey.

Something solid in fact existed

But not any WMD.

All the evidence was laid out in the report

There wasn't a whole lot of it was there.

You haven't bothered reading it have you

The bottom line is Kay has said the WMD arn't there. We can argue over "A scientist had a funny glint in his eye..I saw a funny looking pipe under his rosebush" till the cows come home. It won't change a damn thing. The WMD arn't there.

he retained the ability to produce them

Not sure about that. I've read it would take months and more likely years to do so. Remember Saddam wasn't getting any younger.

He also continued R&D on the weapons and delivery systems.

R&D in what sense? The scientists kept their subscriptions to "Scientific American"? There sure as hell wern't any factories making anything otherwise we'd know about it by now. Any scientist or worker involved anywhere near a WMD research site could walk into the nearest american army base and say "Write me a cheque for 25 million and I'll take you to where we researched and developed WMD".

No one in their right mind can claim he was fully complying with his obligations under the agreement he signed

Who does tho? America didn't fully comply with it's obligations to the UN when it launched a war without UN authorisation either. "Full compliance" with anything in life is pretty rare.

he had little control over the rest of his corrupt regime

Saddam? I thought he had pretty good control over his regime.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: UN Inspectors: Saddam shipped out WMD before and after w [Re: silversoul7]
    #2787535 - 06/12/04 12:55 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

The same can be said for Osama Bin Laden, but I'm fairly sure he exists.

But the people around Osama are clearly loyal to him and believe he's worth protecting. What loyalty do workers on Saddams old WMD programs have to anyone? What possible reason is there not to take the 25 million?


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: UN Inspectors: Saddam shipped out WMD before and after war [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #2787569 - 06/12/04 01:04 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I certainly and the majority of people would see quite a big difference in the risk posed by someone taking an illegal drug in their home and that of a country's/madman's wish to aquire biological, chemical or even nuclear weapons....

Yet 15 years ago another Bush administration referred to drugs as the biggest threat to America. In fact substitute "drug-users" for "terrorists" and you'll find the speeches match up nicely.

Although im sure neighbouring countries would have been ever so slightly concerned

Iraq really wasn't in a state to do much invading.

Questionable, there are still a lot of his stockpiles unaccounted for, according to UN reports anyway.

"Unaccounted for" doesn't mean they still exist. I can't account for a pair of socks I had 10 years ago either, but It's a damn good bet they're long gone by now.


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