
SpecialEd
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Base 10
#2294529  02/02/04 05:30 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) 


Alright, my Digital Logic professor said that humans are most comfortable with base ten because we have ten fingers and ten toes.
To me, that is laughable. So I guess an octopus would use the octal system?
I think that humans use base ten because it is the perfect number sytem. Position is implied as the number columns are functions of ten.
The number 375(10) tells you everything at a glance
(5 * 10^0)+ (7 * 10^1)+ (3 * 10^2) = 375
It's not so easy in other number systems...
10111(2)
At a glance, I have no idea what that number is.
(1 * 2^0)+ (1 * 2^1)+ (1 * 2^2)+ (1 * 2^4)= 23
or how about A9(16)
(9 * 16^0)+ (A * 16^1)= 169
What do you guys think, is it base ten because of ten fingers, or because base ten is perfect???
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infidelGOD
illusion
Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
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not so! it doesn't matter if WE can't make sense of number systems not based on 10. the base10 system is hardwired into our brains, but in no way is it any more "natural" than other number systems.
I submit that binary is the simplest and most fundamental system of storing and manipulating information.
consider this: 100. a nice even number. what's half of 100? 50, ok half of that? 25, so far so good, now what's half of that 12.5, uh oh.. half of that is 6.25 and half of that is 3.125....
now binary: a nice even binary number like 32: 100000. half of that? 10000. half 1000 100 10 1 .1 .01 .001 .0001 .00001
and also when calculating
10000 + 10000 = 100000
10101 + 01010 = 11111
also it should be noted that octal and hexadecimal are derived from binary (they are "even" binary numbers)
in other words, base 10 blows. it's a nice HUMAN contrivance, nothing more.

trendal
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Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 19,982
Loc: Ontario, Canada


10111(2)
At a glance, I have no idea what that number is.
That's only because you have conditioned yourself to understand the base 10 system instead of the binary system. I'm sure there are people who (back in the day, anyway) spent enough time using the binary system to be as comfortable, or at least nearly so, as they were with the base 10 system
Base 10 is only "perfect" because everything else we use is derived from it. If humans had of started out with base 16, by now everything would be "perfectly" described by base 16 because that is what we would have derived everything from.

SpecialEd
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Yeah, there's this internet site that makes a claim for using base 16. It gives you a line, and you have to divide it up into 5 equal parts. You divide it with your mouse and then it shows you the correct proportions. Then it gives you a line to divide in six parts and you are able to get much closer.
However, the problem I see with binary is that it is not compact. With n bits, you can only express a decimal number 2^n1. Also, binary arthimetic sucks. Base 10 arthimetic ROCKS!
I still maintain that base ten is more intuitive. Why else do we use it? I know humans do backwards things like inch/pound/gallon as opposed to meter/gram/liter, but I think base 10 is superior.
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SpecialEd
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Re: Base 10 [Re: trendal]
#2294898  02/02/04 07:23 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) 


Quote:
That's only because you have conditioned yourself to understand the base 10 system instead of the binary system. I'm sure there are people who (back in the day, anyway) spent enough time using the binary system to be as comfortable, or at least nearly so, as they were with the base 10 system
Yeah, I get your point. I just think base 10 is more intuitive.
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vampirism
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Registered: 03/14/04
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how would base 10 be better or worse in any respect? our numbering system makes base 10 seem more intuitive after all, there are 10 different numerals to represent everything.. If 10 is so great, why not use 20, or 100? Not compact ? Well why not 20 then? The Mayans used a base 20 number system successfully
it's really just your culturallyinfluenced knowledge which tells you that 10 is better each to his own

SpecialEd
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Re: Base 10 [Re: ]
#2294951  02/02/04 07:52 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) 


Quote:
If 10 is so great, why not use 20, or 100? Not compact ? Well why not 20 then? The Mayans used a base 20 number system successfully
20 and 100 hundred would really just be base 10, only more compact. It's like Infidel_God said, octal and hexidecimal are truly binary.
Quote:
it's really just your culturallyinfluenced knowledge which tells you that 10 is better each to his own
That's what you guys are saying!
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vampirism
Stranger
Registered: 03/14/04
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ok.
well if you're looking at it that way, a prime base will not be based on anything, correct? Why not one of those then?
Do you have an argument besides "It makes more sense to me I mean look at it!"
the other thing about 3x10^2 etc is only >because< we happen to be accustomed to base 10 theres alot more of that sort of stuff in binary, so should the "correctness" be based on the number of interesting interconnected tricks? Should it be based on how easily humans can interpret it?
Humans invented numbers math is an abstract construct most often you're taught base 10, and so all of your numberrelated theory rests in what you've seen of it
I just don't see how it's possibly to make an absolute out of a relative

SkorpivoMusterion
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Um...yeah.....numbers are like...crazy.
Now if you'll excuse me...I must go salvage the pieces of my skull that exploded due to attempting at comprehending this...........................thread.
 Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.

HagbardCeline
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As an interesting side bar, some engineer, who was given a book of mathmatical enigma's, seems to have uncovered the Incan's system of writing. It appears to be designed on a base 40 numbering system.
http://dsc.discovery.com/news/briefs/20040126/yupanacount.html
 I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous nonexistance of no longer keeping it real.  Hagbard Celine

Swami
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Well, first humans experimented with base 1 which worked fine until you had two of something, then it broke down.

The proof is in the pudding.

Frog
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*sees all the talk about numbers and quietly slips out the back door*
 The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. Teilard

Alan Stone
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Re: Base 10 [Re: Frog]
#2296475  02/03/04 07:11 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) 


Base ten is simplier to teach to children, because every digit has the same maximum and minimum. It's harder for a child to grasp the concept of binary calculus, because they'd have to know the multiplication table of two first to know what the next digit means. That's the only reason I can see that's detached from cultural preference.
 It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
 Aristotle

infidelGOD
illusion
Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there


I still maintain that base ten is more intuitive
yes, obviously, base10 is intuitive (to us). the question is: why is it intuitive? does it have anything to do with 10 fingers? or the way our brains are programmed? or cultural influences?

SpecialEd
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I thought of a joke to tell at parties. Drunk people would find this hilarious.
Convert 2989 base 10 to base 16 to find out what kind of joke it is.
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TODAY
Battletoad
Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 10,218
Loc: Metropolis City, USA


what's the point?

ca'rouse (krouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.

SpecialEd
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Re: Base 10 [Re: Swami]
#2299072  02/04/04 12:33 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) 


Quote:
Well, first humans experimented with base 1 which worked fine until you had two of something, then it broke down.
Your joke is base
Base one would work fine. It would look something like this
Decimal.................Base 1 1.......................1 2.......................11 3.......................111 4.......................1111 5.......................11111 6.......................111111
Now that I think about it, Base 1 is the only number system that cannot express the concept of zero.
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SpecialEd
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Re: Base 10 [Re: TODAY]
#2299078  02/04/04 12:34 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) 


The point of the thread or the point of the joke?
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vampirism
Stranger
Registered: 03/14/04
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well, it was a ..bad.. joke.

TODAY
Battletoad
Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 10,218
Loc: Metropolis City, USA


well, why do we need to care about base 10? that's what i'm asking.

ca'rouse (krouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.

