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OfflineSpecialEd
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Registered: 01/30/03
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Base 10
    #2294529 - 02/02/04 05:30 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Alright, my Digital Logic professor said that humans are most comfortable with base ten because we have ten fingers and ten toes. :lol:

To me, that is laughable.  So I guess an octopus would use the octal system?

I think that humans use base ten because it is the perfect number sytem.  Position is implied as the number columns are functions of ten. 

The number 375(10) tells you everything at a glance

(5 * 10^0)+
(7 * 10^1)+
(3 * 10^2) = 375

It's not so easy in other number systems...

10111(2) 

At a glance, I have no idea what that number is.

(1 * 2^0)+
(1 * 2^1)+
(1 * 2^2)+
(1 * 2^4)= 23

or how about A9(16)

(9 * 16^0)+
(A * 16^1)= 169

What do you guys think, is it base ten because of ten fingers, or because base ten is perfect???


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
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Re: Base 10 [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2294733 - 02/02/04 06:24 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

not so! it doesn't matter if WE can't make sense of number systems not based on 10.
the base10 system is hardwired into our brains, but in no way is it any more "natural" than other number systems.

I submit that binary is the simplest and most fundamental system of storing and manipulating information.

consider this:
100. a nice even number.
what's half of 100?
50, ok half of that?
25, so far so good, now what's half of that
12.5, uh oh.. half of that is 6.25 and half of that is 3.125....

now binary:
a nice even binary number like 32:
100000. half of that?
10000. half
1000
100
10
1
.1
.01
.001
.0001
.00001

and also when calculating

10000 +
10000 =
100000

10101 +
01010 =
11111

also it should be noted that octal and hexadecimal are derived from binary
(they are "even" binary numbers)

in other words, base 10 blows. it's a nice HUMAN contrivance, nothing more.


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InvisibletrendalM
point of inflection
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Re: Base 10 [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2294849 - 02/02/04 07:00 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

10111(2)

At a glance, I have no idea what that number is.


That's only because you have conditioned yourself to understand the base 10 system instead of the binary system. I'm sure there are people who (back in the day, anyway) spent enough time using the binary system to be as comfortable, or at least nearly so, as they were with the base 10 system :smirk:

Base 10 is only "perfect" because everything else we use is derived from it. If humans had of started out with base 16, by now everything would be "perfectly" described by base 16 because that is what we would have derived everything from.


--------------------
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What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
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Driving you mad.


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OfflineSpecialEd
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Re: Base 10 [Re: infidelGOD]
    #2294896 - 02/02/04 07:22 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah, there's this internet site that makes a claim for using base 16. It gives you a line, and you have to divide it up into 5 equal parts. You divide it with your mouse and then it shows you the correct proportions. Then it gives you a line to divide in six parts and you are able to get much closer.

However, the problem I see with binary is that it is not compact. With n bits, you can only express a decimal number 2^n-1. Also, binary arthimetic sucks. Base 10 arthimetic ROCKS!

I still maintain that base ten is more intuitive. Why else do we use it? I know humans do backwards things like inch/pound/gallon as opposed to meter/gram/liter, but I think base 10 is superior.


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OfflineSpecialEd
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Re: Base 10 [Re: trendal]
    #2294898 - 02/02/04 07:23 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

That's only because you have conditioned yourself to understand the base 10 system instead of the binary system. I'm sure there are people who (back in the day, anyway) spent enough time using the binary system to be as comfortable, or at least nearly so, as they were with the base 10 system




Yeah, I get your point. I just think base 10 is more intuitive.


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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: Base 10 [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2294942 - 02/02/04 07:47 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

how would base 10 be better or worse in any respect?
our numbering system makes base 10 seem more intuitive- after all, there are 10 different numerals to represent everything.. If 10 is so great, why not use 20, or 100? Not compact ? Well why not 20 then? The Mayans used a base 20 number system successfully

it's really just your culturally-influenced knowledge which tells you that 10 is better- each to his own


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OfflineSpecialEd
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Re: Base 10 [Re: ]
    #2294951 - 02/02/04 07:52 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

If 10 is so great, why not use 20, or 100? Not compact ? Well why not 20 then? The Mayans used a base 20 number system successfully





20 and 100 hundred would really just be base 10, only more compact. It's like Infidel_God said, octal and hexidecimal are truly binary.

Quote:

it's really just your culturally-influenced knowledge which tells you that 10 is better- each to his own




That's what you guys are saying!


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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: Base 10 [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2294962 - 02/02/04 07:58 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

ok.

well if you're looking at it that way, a prime base will not be based on anything, correct? Why not one of those then?

Do you have an argument besides "It makes more sense to me- I mean look at it!"

the other thing about 3x10^2 etc is only >because< we happen to be accustomed to base 10- theres alot more of that sort of stuff in binary, so should the "correctness" be based on the number of interesting inter-connected tricks? Should it be based on how easily humans can interpret it?

Humans invented numbers- math is an abstract construct- most often you're taught base 10, and so all of your number-related theory rests in what you've seen of it


I just don't see how it's possibly to make an absolute out of a relative


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Base 10 [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2294968 - 02/02/04 08:01 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Um...yeah.....numbers are like...crazy.

Now if you'll excuse me...I must go salvage the pieces of my skull that exploded due to attempting at comprehending this...........................thread.



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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: Base 10 [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2295369 - 02/02/04 10:13 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

As an interesting side bar, some engineer, who was given a book of mathmatical enigma's, seems to have uncovered the Incan's system of writing. It appears to be designed on a base 40 numbering system.

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/briefs/20040126/yupanacount.html


--------------------
I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Base 10 [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2295574 - 02/02/04 11:00 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Well, first humans experimented with base 1 which worked fine until you had two of something, then it broke down.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Base 10 [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2295587 - 02/02/04 11:03 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

*sees all the talk about numbers and quietly slips out the back door*


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: Base 10 [Re: Frog]
    #2296475 - 02/03/04 07:11 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Base ten is simplier to teach to children, because every digit has the same maximum and minimum. It's harder for a child to grasp the concept of binary calculus, because they'd have to know the multiplication table of two first to know what the next digit means.
That's the only reason I can see that's detached from cultural preference.


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: Base 10 [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2296804 - 02/03/04 10:44 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I still maintain that base ten is more intuitive

yes, obviously, base10 is intuitive (to us).
the question is: why is it intuitive?
does it have anything to do with 10 fingers?
or the way our brains are programmed?
or cultural influences?


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OfflineSpecialEd
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Registered: 01/30/03
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Re: Base 10 [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2299010 - 02/04/04 12:21 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I thought of a joke to tell at parties.  Drunk people would find this hilarious.

Convert 2989 base 10 to base 16 to find out what kind of joke it is. :lol:


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InvisibleTODAY
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Re: Base 10 [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2299071 - 02/04/04 12:33 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

what's the point?


--------------------

ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.


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OfflineSpecialEd
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Re: Base 10 [Re: Swami]
    #2299072 - 02/04/04 12:33 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Well, first humans experimented with base 1 which worked fine until you had two of something, then it broke down. 




Your joke is base :lol:

Base one would work fine.  It would look something like this

Decimal.................Base 1
1.......................1
2.......................11
3.......................111
4.......................1111
5.......................11111
6.......................111111

Now that I think about it, Base 1 is the only number system that cannot express the concept of zero. :spliff: :eek:


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OfflineSpecialEd
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Re: Base 10 [Re: TODAY]
    #2299078 - 02/04/04 12:34 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

The point of the thread or the point of the joke?


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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: Base 10 [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2299103 - 02/04/04 12:42 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

well, it was a ..bad.. joke.


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InvisibleTODAY
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Re: Base 10 [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2299137 - 02/04/04 12:54 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

well, why do we need to care about base 10? that's what i'm asking.


--------------------

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