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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Plant based diet [Re: livingsystems]
    #2002442 - 10/12/03 12:48 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Could you please at least start new paragraphs in your posts to make them easier to read? kthanks


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Plant based diet [Re: livingsystems]
    #2002706 - 10/12/03 03:03 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Dude, you really need to start making your posts more reader friendly.. it is all just one giant block of text..

But don't feel bad, man, I used to be the same way! :grin:

By the way, welcome!
Peace.


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:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlineentiformatie
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Re: Plant based diet [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2003682 - 10/12/03 09:36 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

its interesting that you say that. some people are being born without canine teeth now. i believe at one point, we were meant to eat animals. but i dont see the point in it, especially the mass killing/production of animals for mcdonalds and crap. and anywho, we have soy and shit, much healthier than meat. no need for meat. canine teeth may have come themselves from evolution.

Quote:

DoctorJ said:
If my teeth were not meant to chew meat, they would not be sharp and pointy.

they would be broad and flat like every other herbivore that has ever walked the earth.




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/opinion
.sean


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Offlinehongomon
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Re: Plant based diet [Re: entiformatie]
    #2004082 - 10/12/03 11:39 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Another way to look at it is through the theory of natural selection. The types of foods our ancestors were eating made cutting front teeth an asset, and so through selection those genes/genomes were more successful.

The idea that we were "made" to eat certain things is a creationist idea--I'm not saying that's incorrect, though I don't personally see things that way.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Plant based diet [Re: hongomon]
    #2004093 - 10/12/03 11:42 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

The way I see it, if I wasn't supposed to eat meat, it wouldn't taste good.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlinehongomon
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Re: Plant based diet [Re: silversoul7]
    #2004116 - 10/12/03 11:49 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

So you're a creationist, too...

I'm mostly vegetarian, but about the taste--you are correct. Sigh.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Plant based diet [Re: hongomon]
    #2004144 - 10/13/03 12:00 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

No, I'm an evolutionist, but I figure if we had evolved to not eat meat, we would be naturally inclined not to eat it. Also, I have yet to see any evidence of vegetarians being more evolved than meat-eaters.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlinehongomon
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Re: Plant based diet [Re: silversoul7]
    #2004304 - 10/13/03 12:59 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

We didn't evolve to not eat meat, but do you think we evolved "to do" anything? At least that's not how I would word it.

I respect anyone who chooses to avoid animal products, but I'd rather not hear their spiel. What's funny though is when people ask me why I'm vegetarian, even though I try to keep my answer as short and non-preachy as possible, now and then someone still seems a little defensive about it.



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Invisiblechunder
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Re: Plant based diet [Re: hongomon]
    #2004976 - 10/13/03 10:57 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

silversoul7, thats pretty weak reasoning. If its someone's natural tendency to bust your nose when you offend him, does it make it okay for him to do that, just because its harmonious with his instincts?

What about our natural tendency to deplete natural resources and slowly drain our environment of its worth? That a product of evolution?

You should know well enough that just because something feels good on the surface and is easy to do doesn't mean that its a wholesome or healthy activity. Surely the mushroom has shown you the fallacy of adhering to one's programmed instincts and cultural ideals, of which diet is a prime exampe.

Before we turned into an agricultural civilization, we hardly ate any meat all. Hunter gatherers caught meat only a few times a month, most of the time they ate vegetables, fruits and seeds.

I mean, we evolved with the ability to build 50 megaton atomic bombs, but does that mean that we have the right to do so, or that its healthy for us to do so?

Edit: 420th post!


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Plant based diet [Re: chunder]
    #2005629 - 10/13/03 02:54 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

If its someone's natural tendency to bust your nose when you offend him, does it make it okay for him to do that, just because its harmonious with his instincts?



It's only natural to do so in self-defense, so ya, it would be ok.

Quote:

What about our natural tendency to deplete natural resources and slowly drain our environment of its worth? That a product of evolution?



Actually, our natural tendency is to hunt wild game and gather nuts and berries, thus having a minimum impact on our environment. These tendencies you mention are the product of agriculture, one of the most disastrous developments in human history.

Quote:

You should know well enough that just because something feels good on the surface and is easy to do doesn't mean that its a wholesome or healthy activity. Surely the mushroom has shown you the fallacy of adhering to one's programmed instincts and cultural ideals, of which diet is a prime exampe.



Natural instincts--good. Cultural programming--mixed.

Quote:

Before we turned into an agricultural civilization, we hardly ate any meat all. Hunter gatherers caught meat only a few times a month, most of the time they ate vegetables, fruits and seeds.



I'm sorry, your wrong. People in prehistoric times had to ingest large amounts of protein and fat in order to survive. In fact, it is BECAUSE of the agricultural revolution that we are less reliant on meat today.

Quote:

I mean, we evolved with the ability to build 50 megaton atomic bombs, but does that mean that we have the right to do so, or that its healthy for us to do so?



No, we didn't evolve with that ability. We evolved with the capacity to come up with theories, which eventually led to the development of the atomic bomb.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisiblechunder
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Re: Plant based diet [Re: silversoul7]
    #2005944 - 10/13/03 05:10 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

I'm sorry, your wrong. People in prehistoric times had to ingest large amounts of protein and fat in order to survive. In fact, it is BECAUSE of the agricultural revolution that we are less reliant on meat today.

Everything I've ever read about hunter-gatherer societies suggests that they ate very little meat. Just take a look at current hunter-gatherer tribes in places such as Africa. Most of their diet consists of roots and plants, not meat.

Its very difficult to acquire meat with primitive weaponry. Our reliance on meat comes from agriculture. This is because once people had the ability to grow mass amounts of crops, they also simultaneously evolved the ability to raise mass amounts of animals, because they had lots of food to feed the animals.

This is pretty much anthropological axiom. Peace.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Plant based diet [Re: chunder]
    #2005960 - 10/13/03 05:19 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)



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Invisiblechunder
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Re: Plant based diet [Re: silversoul7]
    #2005981 - 10/13/03 05:32 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

The 50 % estimate isnt corroborated by any other studies, as far as I can tell from reading the article. However, much of that was probably fish and mollusks, due to hunter-gatherer societies growing to their largest around water sources.

I've always believed the percentage of meat eaten was less than a quarter of their diets. But of course, we can never know the true number.

However, back to my original point, we eat WAY MORE MEAT today than we ever did before.

An incredible 211 million tons of meat were produced worldwide in 1997, an almost fivefold increase since 1950, equivalent to 36 kg (or nearly 80 lbs) of meat per person, more than double the 1950 level. The boom in meat consumption has been accompanied by increased intake of all animal products, with per capita consumption of milk, cheese, yogurt, ice cream, eggs and fish each reaching record levels.

from: http://www.ivu.org/oxveg/Publications/Oven/Articles_General/wi_meat.html

Again, I'm not trying to turn you vegetarian or anything, I'm not vegetarian myself. But I do want to point out the obvious fact that humanity as a whole is very unhealthy and that we eat way more meat than we used to, or need to. Of course, its only one factor in keeping your body healthy, but its an important one.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Plant based diet [Re: chunder]
    #2006041 - 10/13/03 05:56 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

A more scientific article, if you're still unconvinced.

BTW, I agree we eat too much meat nowadays, but it's not more than we used to. It's just that we don't NEED to eat as much meat as we used to(since we don't expend as much energy as before).


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlineentiformatie
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Re: Plant based diet [Re: silversoul7]
    #2006649 - 10/13/03 09:18 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

well, they did raise a vegan dog to be 29 years old, the supposedly the oldest any dog has ever been (which seems pretty fair to me, 29 is fuckin old in dog years)

Quote:

I respect anyone who chooses to avoid animal products, but I'd rather not hear their spiel. What's funny though is when people ask me why I'm vegetarian, even though I try to keep my answer as short and non-preachy as possible, now and then someone still seems a little defensive about it.





well, i think thats prolly because people are worried about their own beliefs, and feel the need to defend them. They are worried they might be wrong, so they need to confirm and reconfirm their beliefs, by speaking them, and hopefully convincing somebody else. so i think


--------------------
/opinion
.sean


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Plant based diet [Re: entiformatie]
    #2006885 - 10/13/03 10:25 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

well, they did raise a vegan dog to be 29 years old, the supposedly the oldest any dog has ever been (which seems pretty fair to me, 29 is fuckin old in dog years)



Well, I'm not worried about lifespan. My great-grandmother lived to be 101 years old(and she wasn't even Vegan! Fancy that!). Frankly, I'd rather not live any longer than that.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlineentiformatie
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Re: Plant based diet [Re: silversoul7]
    #2008346 - 10/14/03 01:08 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

lol, i wouldnt want to be that old either (unless i was super healthy too). but i was just supporting claims that vegan diets are healthier and promote longevity :-) not that i care for longevity, but health does matter a lot to me. eating vegan just seems like a much healthier choice to me. of course, its hard as hell to find vegan food, but my girlfriend is vegan too, and she cooks for me. Ah, she's great :-)


--------------------
/opinion
.sean


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OfflineJameZTheNewbie
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Re: Plant based diet [Re: silversoul7]
    #2010319 - 10/15/03 12:18 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

i heard the protein from the meats humans ate is what made human brains get bigger...thats just wut i heard

PS sorry if someone said that already


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OfflineDankBluntZ
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Re: Plant based diet [Re: JameZTheNewbie]
    #2010906 - 10/15/03 07:08 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

this thread is making me hungry. I think im going to go grill up a bloody 1 lb beef burger with extra mayo, mustard, pickles, tomatoes, lettuce and hotsauce ::grin:


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Offlinehongomon
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Re: Plant based diet [Re: DankBluntZ]
    #2010978 - 10/15/03 08:38 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Mmm, tomatoes and lettuce.....


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