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InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/08/98
Posts: 2,261
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Do plants have consciousness?
    #2916649 - 07/22/04 05:37 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Are they aware? They do meet one criteria of consciousness in that they are responsive. There are even plants that move when you touch them..they will curl up their leaves to protect themselves.


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I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Re: Do plants have consciousness? [Re: Jellric]
    #2916658 - 07/22/04 05:39 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

mimosa will recoil
strangely some of them are DMT sources
machines will recoil too.

consciousness, like we have - no way.
contribute to gaia maybe.

resonance to what is happenning, maybe.


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Anonymous

Re: Do plants have consciousness? [Re: Jellric]
    #2916668 - 07/22/04 05:42 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

if you catch a fish, and bring it into the kitchen while it is still alive, then quickly filet it and put the filets directly into a hot pan, they will curl up in response to the heat and sometimes even squirm a little.

as far as your question... what is consciousness?

i don't feel that responsiveness to the surrounding environment equals consciousness. all living things respond to the environment in which they live.


Edited by Anonymous (07/22/04 05:48 PM)


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InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/08/98
Posts: 2,261
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Re: Do plants have consciousness? [Re: ]
    #2916706 - 07/22/04 05:48 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Even a dead fish will curl up when you fry it, but in the case of the mimosa you have a living organism seemingly protecting itself by curling its leaves.

Maybe we are just conditioned to think of anything non-human as not conscious. Perhaps we should expand our definition of what is conscious?


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I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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Anonymous

Re: Do plants have consciousness? [Re: Jellric]
    #2916713 - 07/22/04 05:50 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

it's another taxis having nothing to do with conscious input. there are plant hormones which cause plants to respond to environmental cues.


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InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/08/98
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Re: Do plants have consciousness? [Re: ]
    #2916723 - 07/22/04 05:51 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Yes, and when someone throws dust towards my eyes I shut them automatically.
No thought involved.


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I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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Anonymous

Re: Do plants have consciousness? [Re: Jellric]
    #2916732 - 07/22/04 05:54 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

exactly.


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Offlined33p
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Re: Do plants have consciousness? [Re: Jellric]
    #2916740 - 07/22/04 05:55 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

But you think about what is being thrown at you. If it was a baseball your eyes would be open and you would catch it. You are thinking maybe you just do not realize it. The brain does work pretty fast.


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InvisibleJellric
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Re: Do plants have consciousness? [Re: ]
    #2916748 - 07/22/04 05:56 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

So there are movements that are automatic and not. Just because something is done reflexively does not mean there exists no self-determination for an organism.


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I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Do plants have consciousness? [Re: Jellric]
    #2916754 - 07/22/04 06:00 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

On 5 grams of shrooms, I experienced a kind of universal consciousness, which was different from normal consiousness in that there was no self. I have a feeling that there is a sort of consciousness somewhat like this throughout the universe, but that as humans, this is filtered through our egos and our five senses, thus creating a more subjective consciousness.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Anonymous

Re: Do plants have consciousness? [Re: Jellric]
    #2916764 - 07/22/04 06:03 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Just because something is done reflexively does not mean there exists no self-determination for an organism.

reflexive action does not disprove the existence of consciousness in a particular organism. that doesn't mean it proves it though. it really doesn't tell us anything about whether an organism is conscious or not.


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Offlineekomstop
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Re: Do plants have consciousness? [Re: Jellric]
    #2916765 - 07/22/04 06:04 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Perhaps plants in general arn't necessarily seperate from eachother in whatever level of awareness they may experience..I mean collectively the plant kingdom may more or less operate under or share the same level of "consciousness"? Like a network of some kind..with Gaia or Nature being the operating system. One consciousness.


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InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/08/98
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Re: Do plants have consciousness? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2916766 - 07/22/04 06:04 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I think that plants are aware but unaware that they are aware. In other words they lack the ability to reflect on their own consciousness.

They probably have no sense of self similar to what you described.


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I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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Anonymous

Re: Do plants have consciousness? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2916770 - 07/22/04 06:05 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

yeah... while tripping in the forest i've definitely felt that questions like this one are so mudane as to miss the point entirely...


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InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/08/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
Re: Do plants have consciousness? [Re: ]
    #2916781 - 07/22/04 06:07 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Please, enlighten us..


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I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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Anonymous

Re: Do plants have consciousness? [Re: Jellric]
    #2916807 - 07/22/04 06:14 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

it's one of those things you can't really put into words very well.


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Offlinedjd586
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Re: Do plants have consciousness? [Re: Jellric]
    #2916828 - 07/22/04 06:19 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

This question has been asked before . . . like a year or so back. It's a tough debate. Being a biologist, I would have to lean towards the idea that plants are not conscious. Many plants do have deliberate reactions to certain stimuli, but these reactions are not conscious reactions, but rather pre-programmed. A plant cannot perform certain actions without the proper stimuli. And many plants cannot distinguish between a proper stimulus and false stimuli. For example, a Venus Fly Trap will snap shut no matter what touches its trigger hairs, whether it is wind, rain, or an insect. If a Venus Fly Trap was conscious, it would be able to distinguish between various stimuli and react accordingly without expending any unnecessary energy.


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Phase 1... collect underpants... phase 2...??? ... Phase 3 - PROFIT!


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InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/08/98
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Loc: non-local
Re: Do plants have consciousness? [Re: ]
    #2916836 - 07/22/04 06:21 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Here's an interesting article I found at learnmindpower.com:

"[I was] on safari several years earlier where a game ranger pointed out a species of tree that not only reacted to animals eating its leaves, but transmitted signals to other trees of the same species as well. It seems that these particular leaves were very delicate and tasty favourites of the giraffe. So whenever a family of giraffes would begin eating them, within 15 minutes the taste of the leaves would turn sour. What was so interesting, however, was that it was not only the leaves on that particular tree that turned sour, but the leaves on all the identical trees within a half-mile radius! The tree whose leaves were being eaten was able to somehow communicate with the other trees in the area and warn of impending danger."


--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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Anonymous

Re: Do plants have consciousness? [Re: djd586]
    #2916838 - 07/22/04 06:21 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Being a biologist, I would have to lean towards the idea that plants are not conscious.

as a horticultural student, i must say that i agree with you.

plants are not conscious, at least not in the way we usually think of consciousness.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Re: Do plants have consciousness? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2917261 - 07/22/04 08:48 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
On 5 grams of shrooms, I experienced a kind of universal consciousness, which was different from normal consiousness in that there was no self. I have a feeling that there is a sort of consciousness somewhat like this throughout the universe, but that as humans, this is filtered through our egos and our five senses, thus creating a more subjective consciousness.



yeah I know what you mean 'zackly
I get that 3 or 4 times a day
but I am keeping up a pretty persistent salvia afterglow which really helps.
(i.e one puff 700 mics ~every 2 days)
also I marvel at the success of plants in general


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