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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Can the future be predicted precisely given enough knowledge? [Re: hTx]
    #22785451 -

interesting he actually had a decent singing voice then.
maybe all the cigarettes....

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Re: Can the future be predicted precisely given enough knowledge? [Re: laughingdog]
    #22797341 -

I knew you would say that... :shocked:


--------------------
Shroomery mycologist definitely know their shit. :wink:


Knowledge talks. Wisdom listens.

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Re: Can the future be predicted precisely given enough knowledge? [Re: klhouse]
    #22797407 -

Is anyone familiar with Terence Mckenna's time wave zero?


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Re: Can the future be predicted precisely given enough knowledge? [Re: klhouse] * 1
    #22798594 -

klhouse said:
https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/asteroids/news/asteroid20130110.html#.VpafjVQrKW8

The more we understand, the more we are able to predict. I think the future of our solar system can be be predicted exactly to a million years out given enough understanding. It is just physics of bodies in motion and rate of the sun's burn, etc.

Weather forecasts are getting better, etc. .... THEORETICALLY it is possible--if you can factor in the immense variables.

I think it even affects 'free will'. What if given your DNA, body chemistry, parents, city, era, life events, etc,---- an alien, or entity, or super-computer could predict everything you will do?

It is only things we don't know and understand fully that flaw our predictions.


this idea is what they call the Newtonian paradigm, also called the billiard ball, or clockwork model of the universe.
It has been superseded by chaos and complexity theory.

http://www.alexeikurakin.org/main/lecture6Ext.html

http://www.fdavidpeat.com/bibliography/essays/chaos.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_physics

http://www.biourbanism.org/chaos-a-new-mathematical-paradigm/

http://www.biourbanism.org/chaos-a-new-mathematical-paradigm/2/

http://www.britannica.com/science/classical-mechanics

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Re: Can the future be predicted precisely given enough knowledge? [Re: laughingdog]
    #22798935 -

This is great info.


--------------------
Shroomery mycologist definitely know their shit. :wink:


Knowledge talks. Wisdom listens.

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Re: Can the future be predicted precisely given enough knowledge? [Re: klhouse]
    #22799405 -

Given the uncertainty principle we are limited to so much understanding. While that understanding might be extremely powerful(after all we can measure properties of atoms and molecules very precisely these days) its still not enough to overcome the barriers of complexity for life-sized systems.

If you can consider that the human body contains on the order of 10^27 atoms then you start to realize how difficult it would be to measure each one of those atoms. Besides that, when you measure the individual atoms/molecules you are inherently changing them so when you go to make your predictions based on your measurements it will be different from what you would expect.

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Re: Can the future be predicted precisely given enough knowledge? [Re: nucleoPhil]
    #22799414 -

The key is to use very good assumptions. Right now our assumptions fall short of our observations (at least for complex systems) but maybe one day we will assume things to a better degree. That just means taking more data over and over again until you can obtain a high enough probability of any outcome given some probability function. This might be impossible for some systems. It's hard to tell for highly variable things like the weather. The data just isn't consistent enough.

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Re: Can the future be predicted precisely given enough knowledge? [Re: nucleoPhil]
    #22801804 -

well taking your approach
you left out:
dark matter,
dark energy,
and the quarks inside the particles inside the atoms,
oh & the dark matter is supposed to be like 90something percent of it all.

we actually hardly know anything at all....just as Einstein said in a famous quote...

Then there's uncertainty, Godel, and chaos theory...

and time itself slowing down as matter falls into a black hole...

the whole notion of precisely predicting the future is fine for ballistics, but beyond that, for any large system, in the real world it seems like just a wet dream.

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Re: Can the future be predicted precisely given enough knowledge? [Re: klhouse]
    #22802038 -

klhouse said:
https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/asteroids/news/asteroid20130110.html#.VpafjVQrKW8

The more we understand, the more we are able to predict. I think the future of our solar system can be be predicted exactly to a million years out given enough understanding. It is just physics of bodies in motion and rate of the sun's burn, etc.

Weather forecasts are getting better, etc. What if if forecasters eventually got good enough to predict what day exactly it was going to snow-- next year. Or that a cat 3 hurricane will hit Morehead City NC on Aug 22 in 3 years. THEORETICALLY it is possible--if you can factor in the immense variables.

I think it even affects 'free will'. What if given your DNA, body chemistry, parents, city, era, life events, etc,---- an alien, or entity, or super-computer could predict everything you will do?

It is only things we don't know and understand fully that flaw our predictions.


The irony of all this is that even young children will be aware of what is going to happen if the ecocide done by modern civilization continues which it is doing! ONLY this matters

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Re: Can the future be predicted precisely given enough knowledge? [Re: zzripz]
    #22802933 -

I havent read the entire thread so ill just put my thoughts here and edit later if need be


imo if you were to posses complete knowledge of everything, down to every last atom and  every possible way of understanding those atoms, then you would probably be capable of conceiving of an equation that could account for every interaction those atoms would make forever, hence you would know the future:shrug:

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Re: Can the future be predicted precisely given enough knowledge? [Re: Chuckfinely]
    #22803066 -

Chuckfinely said:
I havent read the entire thread so ill just put my thoughts here and edit later if need be


imo if you were to posses complete knowledge of everything, down to every last atom and  every possible way of understanding those atoms, then you would probably be capable of conceiving of an equation that could account for every interaction those atoms would make forever, hence you would know the future:shrug:


That is what I was thinking. I mean, chaos is only stuff we don't understand or can't yet measure. Huh?

I am still reading some links people posted. This is interesting to me.


--------------------
Shroomery mycologist definitely know their shit. :wink:


Knowledge talks. Wisdom listens.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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