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OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 13 years, 20 days
Knowledge
    #1141225 - 12/14/02 03:39 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Do any of you believe that any one man can gain unquestionable knowledge of ultimate reality, whatever it may be, through means of intuitive, demonstration, or even reason? Could a small hand full of people know what is the truth? Does everyone know it on some level (subconcious, perhaps)... or does this knowledge not even exist?


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Offline3eyedgod
trippinkid

Registered: 11/24/02
Posts: 684
Loc: Far away and very near
Last seen: 14 years, 2 months
Re: Knowledge [Re: Zahid]
    #1141258 - 12/14/02 03:49 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Do any of you believe that any one man can gain unquestionable knowledge of ultimate reality, whatever it may be, through means of intuitive, demonstration, or even reason? Could a small hand full of people know what is the truth?

No

Does everyone know it on some level (subconcious, perhaps)...

perhaps

or does this knowledge not even exist?

that is one possibility


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Without everything wouldn't nothing be everything and without nothing wouldn't everything be nothing.I am the beginning and the end,the source and the void, the light and the darkness,i am but a small drop of the ocean yet i am an ocean unto myself


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OfflineFcuerkt
insane visionary

Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 371
Loc: the center of a xenon ato...
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
Re: Knowledge [Re: Zahid]
    #1141278 - 12/14/02 03:55 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Well personally, I think the ultimate reality exists as some kind of formula(e) or physical law. Definitely not one that man can understand, but we know it because we are it.


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OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
Re: Knowledge [Re: Zahid]
    #1141283 - 12/14/02 03:56 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

1st question- No.

2nd question- Anything is possable.

Does everyone know it on some level (subconcious, perhaps)... or does this knowledge not even exist?

I believe that every human knows subconciously. Mushrooms help awaken these aspects of our inner selves (unless you trip at Astro World or something).

Locked up inside you, like the calm beneth castles is a cavern of treasures that noone has been to. ........Let's go digging.
-Tool






--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Knowledge [Re: Zahid]
    #1141297 - 12/14/02 04:02 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

1. Not hardly. That would make life a boring pursuit of hedonistic pleasure.
2. You mean collectively? Probably not.
3. Question is two-part and too vague for me to answer.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: Knowledge [Re: Zahid]
    #1141424 - 12/14/02 05:16 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

yes yes and yes. "knowing" it is being one with it like the TAO . there is a universal principle. when you cant see it cause your eyes are closed.  it may be harder to understand it cause of the dimension we are in... but i believe there is a pure understanding for how things work. maybe its being one with everything or god and this everything is what all of us are. to realize this and be one with it is to my belief what you state as an unquestionable knowledge of "ultimate reality". but make sure you dont start delving into duality by thinking that there is a perfect or ultimate when you should really be consenerned in the balance of all and nothing forming into a river. but honestly i dont know, and i might die trying to figure it out. just a few of my thoughts on the matter (matter...hahahaha  :confused:)


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What?


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Anonymous

Re: Knowledge [Re: Zahid]
    #1141545 - 12/14/02 06:53 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

1. Define ultimate.

2. Define "small handful of people" and define "truth".

3. a. No

3. b. see the answer to 1.


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OfflineRemy
Bitches Brew
 User Gallery

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 1,343
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Last seen: 5 years, 11 months
Re: Knowledge [Re: Zahid]
    #1141803 - 12/14/02 10:11 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

You cannot know reality, you can only experience it. Nobody could have an unquestionable knowledge of reality, because reality isn't something that can be expressed in words.  I do believe, however, that it is any man's capability to understand reality, even if he doesn't know it :smile:


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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: Knowledge [Re: Remy]
    #1142365 - 12/15/02 07:19 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

thats what i took on what he said... knowledge = understanding. to understand reality or to know how to percieve it directly without interference. i think i have to allude to the buddhists and taoists. i believe there is a pure rational function for humans as a "knowledge" or understanding of reality. to be awake aware and to directly percieve while being open to everything while remaining centered.


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What?


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OfflinePhluck
Carpal Tunnel
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/11/99
Posts: 11,393
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 3 months, 25 days
Re: Knowledge [Re: Zahid]
    #1142447 - 12/15/02 08:01 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Nope.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflineSnuffelzFurever
Psychonaut

Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 734
Loc: Miami, florida
Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
Re: Knowledge [Re: Zahid]
    #1142525 - 12/15/02 08:32 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

opinion:
the Truth is so simple that we will never be able to understand it and think about it at the same time. to focus our minds on it would mean that we have lost our grasp on it. it is like when you know something, and try to think in depth about it, but hten forget what it originally was. the truth is simplicity.
i also believe that our brains work with this Truth. It is contained in the smallest building block (whatever that is, i dont think we've figured it out yet). our brains know everything about life. we are supercomputers able to decipher every code and know what happen and will happen, through long drawnout calculations. a humans brain is quite incredible. unfortunately, most people settle themselves with petty shit like money, and never look for more in life. its a shame most people refuse to try to think.... of course, government kinda makes it hell to think for ourselves...... oi


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"I think it's time we stop
Children, What's the sound,
Everybody look what's going down"


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Offlineraja
Stranger

Registered: 11/21/02
Posts: 28
Loc: belgium
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
Re: Knowledge [Re: Zahid]
    #1143187 - 12/15/02 02:00 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

hi there.....
I believe the soul knows all....but when you come to earth (to experience who you are and where you come from) you have forgotten that you have all the knowledge whithin...I think this is what you try to do while living,you try to remember that you already know everything there is to know...but to experience that wisdom,you first have to get in contact with your soul.You can only do that when you live whithout your ego....This is where meditation comes in...Just my opinion of course....


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You teach best what you most need to learn.



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OfflineEarth_Droid
Stranger
Registered: 04/19/02
Posts: 5,240
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
Re: Knowledge [Re: Zahid]
    #1144720 - 12/16/02 07:15 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

The ultamite knowledge exists as a different meaning in everones mind. And there are always ways people can question knowledge, even if their questioning doesn't really make a lot of sense.


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Offlinesoylent_green
The greatEnitsuj
Female

Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 765
Loc: Ontario
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
Re: Knowledge [Re: Zahid]
    #1145343 - 12/16/02 10:30 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

i like raja's theroy



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What fun is it in Nirvana while other beings are suffering?


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OfflineGoBlue!
Tool Rules - DBK

Registered: 10/27/02
Posts: 576
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
Re: Knowledge [Re: Zahid]
    #1145864 - 12/16/02 01:40 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

What does "ultimate reality" mean? What does ?the truth? mean? Unquestionable by whom? I assume by ?ultimate reality? and ?truth? you mean having knowledge of the ?spiritual? world, i.e. knowledge of whether God exists, whether the soul exists, why life on earth exists, etc.

I?ve known a number of people who are convinced beyond a doubt that they have achieved unquestionable knowledge of ?ultimate reality?. But when I compare one person?s knowledge of ultimate reality with another, I find they differ, which leads me to conclude that in spite of what they may think, they have NOT in fact achieved knowledge of ultimate reality.

Reason and demonstration have failed thus far, although many people have an intuition about ?ultimate reality?. I would argue that intuition isn?t reliable, since it produces so many different results.

Since there are so many different opinions about this, and since so many people believe they ?know? the ?truth?, there is no way of determining which of the many opinions, if any, is the right one. None have ever been proven, although most are believed beyond a doubt.

Personally, I don?t believe that this knowledge exists. While there may actually be an ?ultimate reality?, I don?t think anyone will ever know what it is. They may think they know, but like I explained, if people did know, there would only be one answer, not many.


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:smile:  Just stating my thoughts, not trying to offend  :smile:


Edited by GoBlue! (12/16/02 09:04 PM)


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