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Shop: Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Meeting your maker [Re: Frog]
    #2223318 -

If we are infinite then we don't need God because we are God else we are not infinite. They are mutually exclusive.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Meeting your maker [Re: Swami]
    #2223338 -

I agree.

We HAVE boundaries.

In retrospect, I still think we're pretty big though.


--------------------


Dei Gratia de integro,

Veni Vidi Vici:

In Nomine Domini..

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Re: Meeting your maker [Re: Deiymiyan]
    #2223389 -

In retrospect, I still think we're pretty big though.

*looks down* Well I hate to brag, but...


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Meeting your maker [Re: Swami]
    #2223393 -

Why could not an infinite being CHOOSE to experience "finity" by occupying a finite space? It would seem to be the method of the infinite experiencing the finite.For the spirit to understand the material.Just as we have substances which assist us in experiencing the infinite and the spirit,perhaps we are as a drug to God by which He/She/It experiences the alternate(for God) reality of the material.We are a way for God to experience/play with what God has created.
WR:rasta:


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To old for this place

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Re: Meeting your maker [Re: Swami]
    #2223425 -

Swami said:
In retrospect, I still think we're pretty big though.

*looks down* Well I hate to brag, but...



*Amen*


--------------------


Dei Gratia de integro,

Veni Vidi Vici:

In Nomine Domini..

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Re: Meeting your maker [Re: Swami]
    #2223618 -

In my hometown, a lot of people have lawn signs that say "Prepare to meet thy maker" and I think you would do well to take hedence to their advice.

Click here if you have real audio!!!


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"Plus one upvote +1..."
--- //
-- :meff:
  /l_l\/
--\-/----

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Re: Meeting your maker [Re: Swami]
    #2223733 -

Swami said:
If we are infinite then we don't need God because we are God else we are not infinite. They are mutually exclusive.


Huh. I've not really thought about this before. I will have to consult with my guru again.

But if we are not infinite, do you mean our spirits will also die, or cease to exist? My understanding was that after we go to spend eternity with God, that that was exactly what eternity meant: forever, or infinite.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Re: Meeting your maker [Re: Frog]
    #2223785 -

do you mean our spirits will also die, or cease to exist? My understanding was that after we go to spend eternity with God, that that was exactly what eternity meant


I'd like to throw in my two cents into the pond on this if I may..


I think I see what you meant... Spending an eternity vs being infinite..

If it ever becomes possible to get [back?] into a place where only the present exists, then I'd surely say that we can spend an eternity there.

..But being of infinite magnitude, I say we are not.


So, concerning what you just said: "...we go to spend eternity with God..." I don't think that your view is false at all.


Seems like a simple misunderstanding in vocabulary... Sorry about that Frog.


--------------------


Dei Gratia de integro,

Veni Vidi Vici:

In Nomine Domini..

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Re: Meeting your maker [Re: Deiymiyan]
    #2223816 -

No, you're right. I forgot that there is no time where God exists. There is only "now". Eternity is a concept of time.

I want to understand this. How does this work in relation to what Swami initially said?

My brain has frozen up. What we have here is a new concept combined with an old concept (for me) and my processer has frozen. Help!


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Re: Meeting your maker [Re: Deiymiyan]
    #2223843 -

Quote:
e?ter?ni?ty ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-t?rn-t)
n. pl. e?ter?ni?ties
Time without beginning or end; infinite time.
The state or quality of being eternal.

The timeless state following death.
The afterlife; immortality.
A very long or seemingly endless time: waited in the dentist's office for an eternity.


in?fin?i?ty ( P ) Pronunciation Key (n-fn-t)
n. pl. in?fin?i?ties
The quality or condition of being infinite.
Unbounded space, time, or quantity.
An indefinitely large number or amount.
Mathematics. The limit that a function is said to approach at x = a when (x) is larger than any preassigned number for all x sufficiently near a.


Sigh. I don't understand.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Re: Meeting your maker [Re: Frog]
    #2223865 -

I may be treading on thin ice here... Let's see if I'm 'lucky'..


If you mean what he initially said on this page [2] : If we are infinite then we don't need God because we are God else we are not infinite.

I think he meant infinite as in all of it... The whole shebang!

If you are not all of it, then you are a part within. So you are finite in magnitude.



If you meant what he initially said on page 1: Even given little to no knowledge of the spirit world or after-life, it would STILL BE IMPOSSIBLE for a part to encounter the whole any more than a cell in my spleen can encounter the being of "Swami". Can a pebble encounter the mountain, a drop encounter the ocean? No.

His analogy seems a little shaky to me... Those examples deal with things within the 4th dimension... Although I think I understand where he was going with it..

See.. The pebble near the mountain or the drop near the ocean implies one being a partof the other...

The way it looks like to me is, that the pebble would encounter the mountain by being beside it, where as the drop would be absorbed by the ocean [I suppose implying the notion of being one?]




I think it if we changed the scaling a little, I can make an illustration. Say YOU were considered infinite; that is, your mind was ALL of it. What you think of then becomes a part of your mind.

Suppose you created an imaginary friend in your head and gave it a complete life of its own, such that you would not have to mentally move your friend around as a puppet.

Your friend would never be able to see all of you, for he/she/it would be inside of you. But you could still interact using mental communication.

However, you could scale yourself into a similar scale as that of your friend, within your mind. That way, you'd have more 'direct contact'. I think THAT would be a physical kind of encounter, where the other one would be more mental [creative/ imaginative] encounter.


--------------------


Dei Gratia de integro,

Veni Vidi Vici:

In Nomine Domini..

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Re: Meeting your maker [Re: whiterasta]
    #2223886 -

Quote:
The scaling of awareness is locked as a purely physical input not spiritual,infact spiritual experience is marked by feeling "at one" with creation,or if you will by "encountering totality"


Any comment?
WR:rasta:


--------------------
To old for this place

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Re: Meeting your maker [Re: Swami]
    #2223894 -


Maybe we all are just one essense that interacts with itself in all passages of time. We're just at different stages, and that's what makes us different from eachother.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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Re: Meeting your maker [Re: Deiymiyan]
    #2223929 -

I think I understand the part about being finite because we are not God, who is infinite, therefore we cannot be infinite, if we are only a part.

It appears that "infinite" and "eternity" could mean the same thing, except that it may appear that the way Swami uses them, infinity has to do with physical space, and *eternity has to do with time? Or do they mean the same thing for these purposes?

So then I don't understand the analogy about the pebble and the water drop in the context of eternity and infinity.

*edited

Edited by Frog (01/06/04 06:39 PM)

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Re: Meeting your maker [Re: Frog]
    #2223985 -

It appears that "infinite" and "eternity" could mean the same thing, except that it may appear that the way Swami uses them, infinity has to do with physical space, and infinity has to do with time? Or do they mean the same thing for these purposes?

I just wanted to clarify... Did you mean infinite>> space [magnitude] related and eternity>> time [or non-time if in the present moment] related?

I'm just asking because of a possible typo...


I just would like to add.. That I learned in high school, that infinity does not equate to forever... Infinity is nothing more than a VERY large number.

I guess it is math related because it was my calculus teacher who said that.

Looking at it that way, then infinity does not equal an infinite [all encompassing] magnitude.


If there are any math whizzes who could clarify that further, perhaps even to disagree, that would be great.


--------------------


Dei Gratia de integro,

Veni Vidi Vici:

In Nomine Domini..

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Re: Meeting your maker [Re: Deiymiyan]
    #2224000 -

I just wanted to clarify... Did you mean infinite>> space [magnitude] related and eternity>> time [or non-time if in the present moment] related?

I'm just asking because of a possible typo...


Yes, that is what I meant, but I think I've already lost the tenuous
understanding that I thought I was gaining.

Actually, I think I still understand about space and time, with regard to infinite and eternity, but not the pebble and drop thing.

So we are not infinite like God, but we will be here for eternity. (???)


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Re: Meeting your maker [Re: Swami]
    #2224009 -

Swami said:
Can a pebble encounter the mountain, a drop encounter the ocean?


Maybe the drop just separates into zillions of individual particles and is spread evenly throughout the entire ocean? Or something...  :nut:


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Re: Meeting your maker [Re: Frog]
    #2224017 -

So we are not infinite like God, but we will be here for eternity. (???)

Yes, I would take that stance in this debate with a small change: We are not infinite like God, but we will once again return to a "place" or realm of eternity.

I sure hope that we won't be HERE for eternity... I mean, Earth is great'n all, but..


--------------------


Dei Gratia de integro,

Veni Vidi Vici:

In Nomine Domini..

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Re: Meeting your maker [Re: Deiymiyan]
    #2224043 -

  :grin:  I didn't mean here for eternity, I mean in the universe or 4th dimension or whatever for eternity.  On the first page I think it was, someone said something about not being infinite, which I had obviously mistaken.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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