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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Information and Politics
    #2189346 -

Okay, my #1 gripe with politics in general is one of information.

We each have VERY LITTLE information on many political issues and situations, yet how many of us form these rock-solid opinions anyways?

Looking back through my history books, I try to think about what CNN would show it's viewers if CNN were around back then. Would Mao's plan against the Nationalists have worked if he shared all of his information with CNN?
What about other political moves?

I'm pretty sure Machiavelli knew the importance of not showing off your cards until the right moment.

If we don't know what cards the players of the "big game" are holding, how can we claim to have "the answer" to anything?

To summarize my view on politics:
Shut your fucking pie hole until you have all the cards in view AND/OR be constantly aware of the fact that you don't know who's holding what.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Re: Information and Politics [Re: Sclorch]
    #2189353 -

I don't like politics. I become educated in order to vote in every election, but I am really not that interested in politics. I pick up pieces of what's going on here and there. I don't watch T.V. I don't read the newspapers. I suppose I'm ignorant, but I just don't like that stuff.

Besides, if I did have an opinion about something going on in the world of politics, I'd probably be wrong.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Re: Information and Politics [Re: Sclorch]
    #2189357 -

yet how many of us form these rock-solid opinions anyways?

there are those in politics driven by ideology.
there are the sheep who follow those idealogues.
and a precious few driven by facts and logic and a broad base of information.

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Re: Information and Politics [Re: Sclorch]
    #2189360 -

I try my hardest to keep my opinions flexible. I have changed my mind on a few issues, such as affirmative action and gun control, but even with those, there is a chance that I could be convinced to go back to my previous position. I don't claim to have all the answers, nor have I ever done so.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Information and Politics [Re: infidelGOD]
    #2189362 -

Which is why direct Democracy is such a bad idea.

pinky


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Re: Information and Politics [Re: Phred]
    #2189365 -

pinky: Which is why direct Democracy is such a bad idea.

Yeah... because then we can't even kick anyone out for being a fucker!


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Re: Information and Politics [Re: Phred]
    #2189369 -

People are idiots, and people in office are just as stupid as the general public. To me, direct democracy or representative democracy makes no difference. Same shit, different idiots.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Information and Politics [Re: silversoul7]
    #2189376 -

To me, direct democracy or representative democracy makes no difference. Same shit, different idiots.

No... the masses don't learn when they're directly responsible.
Unfortunately, the scapegoat is a necessary tool for teaching large groups of idiots what NOT to do.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Re: Information and Politics [Re: Phred]
    #2189378 -

Which is why direct Democracy is such a bad idea

my thoughts exactly. I'll go furthur and say that programs like Rock the Vote are contrary to the way our limited democracy was meant to function.

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Re: Information and Politics [Re: infidelGOD]
    #2189388 -

Hmm...
I've thought that here and there; off and on.

Do we really want to have as many uneducated drones just voting for whoever?
Isn't voting supposed to be an ACTIVE process where we do at least a little research before voting for Mr. Smilesalot?


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Re: Information and Politics [Re: Phred]
    #2189655 -

Infidel god said:

Quote:
there are those in politics driven by ideology.
there are the sheep who follow those idealogues.
and a precious few driven by facts and logic and a broad base of information.





Pinksharkmark said:

Quote:
Which is why direct Democracy is such a bad idea.



I think you are wrong about that. I believe the reason we have the groups infidel described is due to the political system we are currently using rather than some intrinsic quality of human beings. In a system based around issues rather than personalities, where you have a chance to give your opinion on many things, people may well become more interested and informed on political matters. It wouldnt happen overnight but whatever did happen there would definitely be a change in the political habits of people in general.


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Always Smi2le

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Re: Information and Politics [Re: Sclorch]
    #2190042 -

We each have VERY LITTLE information on many political issues and situations, yet how many of us form these rock-solid opinions anyways?

What situations are you referring to? Take Iraq for example - If Bush declares war by using lies to create a sense of urgency then I think it's fair enough to be rock-solid in considering that wrong. Don't you?

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Re: Information and Politics [Re: Xlea321]
    #2190184 -

So the PROOF he lied has been found? Perhaps you could link us to it.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Information and Politics [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2190578 -

Don't you ever get tired of this?

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Re: Information and Politics [Re: Xlea321]
    #2190646 -

Sclorch: We each have VERY LITTLE information on many political issues and situations, yet how many of us form these rock-solid opinions anyways?
Alex: What situations are you referring to? Take Iraq for example - If Bush declares war by using lies to create a sense of urgency then I think it's fair enough to be rock-solid in considering that wrong. Don't you?

There was no sense of urgency created in me, but that's beside the point.

It's obvious that the current administration values the creation of rational nation states over sovereignty (did you really think this was about oil?). This is an ideology for sure.
However, there is the possibility that such a maneuver is, in fact, good for the Middle East. I'm not saying that the ends justify the means (the current adminstration seems to think so though)... I'm merely pointing out that we don't have the best seats in the house.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Re: Information and Politics [Re: Xlea321]
    #2190689 -

So in other words, you have no proof.

If you do, show it for that's the only way I'll stop asking when you make an unprovable assertion.

Of course, you could just stop making them.  :lol:


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Information and Politics [Re: Sclorch]
    #2190765 -

Great thread!

Do we really want to have as many uneducated drones just voting for whoever?
Isn't voting supposed to be an ACTIVE process where we do at least a little research before voting for Mr. Smilesalot?

Jesus H. Christ on a popcycle stick!

This is exactly what we have and exactly why this country is fucked to hell and gone.

I know about two people that thoroughly examine every issue and candidate before they enter the poll booth besides myself. And neither of them post here.

And if anyone claims they do I would like them to list every issue and candidate they voted for last month.

The masses run this country in combination with a bunch of power-hungry liars.

Is there any reason why it shouldn't be fucked up?

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Re: Information and Politics [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2190860 -

So in other words, you have no proof.

You mean apart from the complete failure to find any after a 9 month search with offers of millions of dollars on the table to any worker or scientist involved in making them or who  who can lead the americans to a WMD stash?  :lol:

To anyone not totally devoted to George Bush that's proof well beyond reasonable doubt. Certainly experts like Hans Blix are convinced.

Can you provide any counter evidence to suggest Bush wasn't lying?

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Re: Information and Politics [Re: Xlea321]
    #2190886 -

So we're back to your "since they haven't found any they must not exist" argument?

It gets weaker each time. That is in no-way PROOF of anything. They may (and it does seem more likely as time goes by) not exist. However, the fact they haven't, or can't, find any is not PROOF of anything other than they haven't found any.

Nor is your insistence that Bush lied PROOF he did so. I have no doubt you'd love it if you were some almighty being who's mere word is considered PROOF of whatever you claim. Get over that because it isn't going to happen.


So I'll ask yet again...... where is the PROOF Bush lied?

And as a further matter.... I know no-one devoted to Bush, just to the truth.

Seems you were absent the day they taught what truth and proof means.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

Edited by luvdemshrooms (12/19/03 05:01 PM)

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Re: Information and Politics [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2190913 -

since they haven't found any they must not exist"

Or anyone who worked on producing them. Or anyone who hid them.

Yep, that's proof well beyond reasonable doubt. No matter how hard you find it to accept.

However, the fact they haven't, or can't, find any is not PROOF of anything other than they haven't found any.

But they WOULD have found someone who worked on them, or hid them. Or do you believe the weapons appeared in a puff of smoke one day and then hid themselves?

Seems you were absent the day they taught what truth and proof means.

Can you try and stick to a point instead of flaming every post? It's really tiresome.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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