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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Information and Politics [Re: Phred]
    #2196487 - 12/22/03 07:41 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I think Echo Vortex's idea is excellent! You could also apply this to a direct democracy system to try and eliminate the so called "mob rule" element.


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Information and Politics [Re: Crobih]
    #2196524 - 12/22/03 07:59 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I will mention one idea you like to oversee. People do not want to act against themselves. People have a common sense.




I totally agree. Whenever you have a minority controlling a majority you will have exploitation. It seems, at this time, to be an unescapable fact of human nature. However, when a majority controls the majority it is much more likely that people will arrive at decisions which actually do benefit the majority.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
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Re: Information and Politics [Re: GazzBut]
    #2197202 - 12/23/03 04:49 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Your faith in human nature, while completely and totally laughable, is touching.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineGazzBut
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Registered: 10/15/02
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Re: Information and Politics [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2197289 - 12/23/03 06:55 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

If you look at it carefully all I am saying is people will go for the option that benefits themselves most. Hardly an outrageously hopeful assesment of human nature.


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OfflineCrobih
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Re: Information and Politics [Re: GazzBut]
    #2197306 - 12/23/03 07:19 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I got to say something bad about Echo Vortexs idea. I am looking through the eyes of the new political order, E-democracy. Well, if we talk about how to dig canals, we wont ask political scientist, but someone who is involved in digging canals.

Politics is considering all aspects of human life. If you make test that is concerned about some things, you miss everything else. And you lose everything else. And you can not make a perfect test. Thouh, it is not neccessary. Cause as I said, people have a common sense. It is not a suppose thing, but thing that has is a fact.

Common sense keeps this group coexisting.

About majority controling majority, I totally agree! Though it is the idea that is theoretically perfect and internet makes it become real!

luvdemshrooms, you think you are somethng special? :laugh:


Edited by Crobih (12/23/03 07:23 AM)


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,244
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Re: Information and Politics [Re: GazzBut]
    #2197316 - 12/23/03 07:32 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Actually your last two posts are in opposition to one another.

First you say.....
"However, when a majority controls the majority it is much more likely that people will arrive at decisions which actually do benefit the majority. "


Then you say....
"If you look at it carefully all I am saying is people will go for the option that benefits themselves most."

So which is it? Will people make decisions that benefit the majority or that benefit themselves?

Personally, I believe the latter.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,244
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Re: Information and Politics [Re: Crobih]
    #2197318 - 12/23/03 07:34 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms, you think you are somethng special? 



I know I'm something special.

My mommy told me so.  :kiss:


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineCrobih
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Re: Information and Politics [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2197323 - 12/23/03 07:37 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

We all have mommies you know? :laugh:


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OfflineCrobih
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Re: Information and Politics [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2197328 - 12/23/03 07:40 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Btw, themselves is majority.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Registered: 11/29/01
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Re: Information and Politics [Re: Crobih]
    #2197331 - 12/23/03 07:43 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

No, sorry. Voting for something that benefits yourself is the more common human reaction. Voting for something that benefits the majority is much more unlikely.

People, IMO, more often have their own interests at heart.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is both an optimist and naive.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineCrobih
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Re: Information and Politics [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2197341 - 12/23/03 07:49 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

You miss the point. when is the majoritiy the one who rules, than majority decides what is in the interest of majority. Majority can rule only in democracy.

If you still miss the point, let me ask how do you imagine the idea that one who naturaly presents his own interests goes against the will of the majority in democracy?


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,244
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Re: Information and Politics [Re: Crobih]
    #2197346 - 12/23/03 07:54 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

You've made no point to get.

For example.... if the majority supports in thheory raising taxes by 300 percent while sitting around talking about it, how many do you think will actually vote to do so.

People vote first and foremost for what benefits themselves. What benefits themselves does not always benefit the majority.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Anonymous

Re: Information and Politics [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2197354 - 12/23/03 07:58 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Those are difficult points to misunderstand. I think you need to try harder.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,244
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Re: Information and Politics [Re: ]
    #2197399 - 12/23/03 08:30 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I guess I could wack my head on the wall and the I could misunderstand even better.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineGazzBut
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Registered: 10/15/02
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Re: Information and Politics [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2197401 - 12/23/03 08:30 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Actually your last two posts are in opposition to one another.






No they are not. I am simply saying that a majority of people will not vote for things which will only benefit a minority of people. They will vote for things which benefit the most people.
Im not saying direct democracy is perfect anyway. All I am saying is that we are living in the information age and we should be able to adapt to this situation to allow people to exert more influence over the society they live in. All we should be arguing about is the hows and whens of direct democracy. Not whether or not we should do it. Look around you bud, it will happen. Nothing stays the same.


--------------------
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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,244
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Re: Information and Politics [Re: GazzBut]
    #2197408 - 12/23/03 08:38 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

No matter how many times I re-read your posts, that's not what you said.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineGazzBut
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Registered: 10/15/02
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Re: Information and Politics [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2197465 - 12/23/03 09:24 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Try a bit harder Luvvie, its fairly straight forward.


--------------------
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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Registered: 11/29/01
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Re: Information and Politics [Re: GazzBut]
    #2197486 - 12/23/03 09:39 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

It doesn't say what you'd like it to say, no matter how many times you insist it does.

Either edit it to say what you mean or give it a rest.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineCrobih
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Registered: 11/03/98
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Re: Information and Politics [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2197631 - 12/23/03 11:07 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
You've made no point to get.

For example.... if the majority supports in thheory raising taxes by 300 percent while sitting around talking about it, how many do you think will actually vote to do so.

People vote first and foremost for what benefits themselves. What benefits themselves does not always benefit the majority.


If majority does not support it, than it will not happen. If majority suport it, it is because it is an interest of majority.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Registered: 11/29/01
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Re: Information and Politics [Re: Crobih]
    #2197677 - 12/23/03 11:37 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I'm stunned anyone could be so naive.

If a majority of Americans supports something, but a majority of our representatives do not..... who do you think is going to win?

Let's use the last few pay raises the lawmakers voted in for themselves. Do you honestly believe that the majority of Americans were in support of that?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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