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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: The new era of politics [Re: d33p]
    #2354209 - 02/19/04 09:50 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Drug War

Nah, 100 years ago you could buy heroin over the counter. No-one gave a fuck. A few politicians and a compliant media whipped up the scare campaign.

Slavery

Nah, most poor whites realised slavery drove down wages and destroyed jobs. The people pushing it were the tiny rich minority who could make an absolute fortune off it.

Afirmative Action

The majority of people are for this? How do you figure?

Graduated Tax

Rich people pay more tax than poor people? Sure that makes sense.

The majority are far sharper than the elite minority take them for.


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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
Re: The new era of politics [Re: Xlea321]
    #2354280 - 02/19/04 10:25 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Old-school slavery has been replaced with new-age slavery where people don't even realize they're slaves


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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Anonymous

Re: The new era of politics [Re: Strumpling]
    #2354286 - 02/19/04 10:27 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Old-school slavery has been replaced with new-age slavery where people don't even realize they're slaves

how is someone a slave without realizing it?


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Anonymous

Re: The new era of politics [Re: Xlea321]
    #2354296 - 02/19/04 10:31 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Nah, 100 years ago you could buy heroin over the counter. No-one gave a fuck. A few politicians and a compliant media whipped up the scare campaign.

and today, the majority supports the drug war. the fact that people are generally stupid, gullible, paranoid, and easily swayed by mass media is not a vindication of democracy, it's a shortcoming of it.

Nah, most poor whites realised slavery drove down wages and destroyed jobs. The people pushing it were the tiny rich minority who could make an absolute fortune off it.

where did you read that?


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: The new era of politics [Re: ]
    #2354669 - 02/19/04 12:24 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

and today, the majority supports the drug war.the fact that people are generally stupid, gullible, paranoid, and easily swayed by mass media is not a vindication of democracy, it's a shortcoming of it.

I don't think they are that easy to sway. When you think of the countless billions poured into getting across one point of view for the last 100 years and look at the countries in Europe rapidly adopting decriminalisation it's amazing how resilient people are to bullshit.

where did you read that?

Any history of slavery. Who'se jobs do you think the slaves took?


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OfflineStrumpling
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Registered: 10/11/02
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Re: The new era of politics [Re: ]
    #2354730 - 02/19/04 12:36 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Its like I said its a new type of slavery, not really in the conventional sense of the word.

I consider one a slave when they are working for a large machine that they don't know the goals and plans of.

I don't know why I'd answer you on this question because I already know we're not going to agree, Mush, but that's my view..

When the average cubicle-worker is sitting at his/her desk for their beer-money or whatever, there are guys making money off of them, guys USING THEM, guys who don't give a shit about them, guys willing to crack the whip if they were allowed to...

I just can't get over the fact that WE ARE BEING USED, and not for nice happy peaceful lovely reasons either. Chalk it up as paranoia or whatever, but that's how I feel.


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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Anonymous

Re: The new era of politics [Re: Strumpling]
    #2354982 - 02/19/04 01:55 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

and you have a right to your opinion, but the fact is that voluntary labor is not slavery, no matter how small you may be respective to the organization you are working for. if you have the choice to reject the employment offer, you are certainly no slave.

of course you are being "used". they're not employing you because they're good people and they want to pay you and give you a nice desk to sit at. you're employed because you're useful to them.


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Anonymous

Re: The new era of politics [Re: Xlea321]
    #2355011 - 02/19/04 02:01 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I don't think they are that easy to sway. When you think of the countless billions poured into getting across one point of view for the last 100 years and look at the countries in Europe rapidly adopting decriminalisation it's amazing how resilient people are to bullshit.

the fact remains that the majority of americans support the drug war. the majority support violating the rights of a minority, and that is wrong. it's a clear example of the major shortcoming of democracy.

Any history of slavery.

are there a lot of these historical accounts that support that view? are any of them on the internet perhaps?


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: The new era of politics [Re: ]
    #2355271 - 02/19/04 02:56 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

the fact remains that the majority of americans support the drug war

At this point in time perhaps. 100 years ago the majority supported heroin being sold over the counter. What is your point?

it's a clear example of the major shortcoming of democracy.

No, it's a clear example of the dangers of a compliant media subservient to power. Read "Manufacturing Consent" by Noam Chomsky.


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 7 months, 11 days
Re: The new era of politics [Re: ]
    #2355279 - 02/19/04 02:58 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

the fact remains that the majority of americans support the drug war.




Source please?


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Always Smi2le


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Anonymous

Re: The new era of politics [Re: Xlea321]
    #2355466 - 02/19/04 03:39 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

At this point in time perhaps. 100 years ago the majority supported heroin being sold over the counter. What is your point?

that the majority sometimes supports policies which are wrong.

No, it's a clear example of the dangers of a compliant media subservient to power. Read "Manufacturing Consent" by Noam Chomsky.

even without mass media, the threat is still there. oppressive religious fundamentalism for example has thrived in many places in the world, supported by a majority, long before mass media.


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Offlined33p
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Registered: 07/12/03
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Loc: the shores of Tripoli
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
Re: The new era of politics [Re: Xlea321]
    #2356826 - 02/19/04 08:31 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Alex123 said:
Nah, 100 years ago you could buy heroin over the counter. No-one gave a fuck. A few politicians and a compliant media whipped up the scare campaign.




Heroin was only first synthed 130 years ago with its first use starting only 100 years ago. When nobody really knows about something its kind of hard for them to have an opinion on it. If you walk up to the average person and mention a legal RC will they have an opinion on it? No.

Quote:


Nah, most poor whites realized slavery drove down wages and destroyed jobs. The people pushing it were the tiny rich minority who could make an absolute fortune off it.




So you are saying that at no point in America's history the majority of whites thought of blacks as sub human. The fact is Americans were taught to believe blacks were sub human and that slavery was the right thing to do and they did. If you dont recognize that you are ignorant.

Quote:


The majority of people are for this? How do you figure?




So your saying its the rich white minority who is pushing this?

Quote:


Rich people pay more tax than poor people? Sure that makes sense.




It makes sense that they would pay more, it doesnt make sense they are given higher rates. Its sad if you cant see that. If you were alive in america in the '30s would you have voted for Long and his "share the wealth" proposition.


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I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 7 months, 11 days
Re: The new era of politics [Re: ]
    #2357931 - 02/20/04 02:42 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Ahh the hallowed voluntary agreement. Because the employee can reject an offer of employment then there is no coercion involved and whatever the two parties agree upon is fair and there is therefore no need for government intervention in the form of minimum wage law or enforcing basic workers rights etc? Gimme a break.


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Always Smi2le


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Offlinezeronio
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Male

Registered: 10/16/01
Posts: 2,349
Loc: Slovenia
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
Re: The new era of politics [Re: Crobih]
    #2357971 - 02/20/04 03:04 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

The Open Source concept is really amazing and the software developed this way is outperforming commercial competition. I think that most of the software shroomery runs on is licensed under OpenSource or GNU.
I already thought of how that concept could be applied to other areas too, but I'm not sure what you mean with open politics.


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 7 months, 11 days
Re: The new era of politics [Re: zeronio]
    #2358176 - 02/20/04 05:45 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I think Crobih is referring to the idea that people should vote on issues instead of merely choosing a political party to make all the decisions for them. (My apologies if this is not what you are referring to Crobih!)

Many people seem to exhibit a knee jerk reaction of "couldnt/shouldnt happen" when confronted with this idea.


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Always Smi2le


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 7 months, 11 days
Re: The new era of politics [Re: d33p]
    #2358180 - 02/20/04 05:47 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

What I dont understand is how you can use any of these issues as an arguement against open democracy when they all occured under pretty much the same system of democracy we have now.


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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Anonymous

Re: The new era of politics [Re: GazzBut]
    #2358825 - 02/20/04 10:01 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

there are restraints set forth in the from of a constitution. perhaps these restraints aren't effective enough in some cases, but it's no argument against the restraints themselves.

what's wrong with having something like a bill of rights? there are certain things which shouldn't be violated, even with the consensus of a majority.


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: The new era of politics [Re: ]
    #2370639 - 02/23/04 02:32 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

what's wrong with having something like a bill of rights? there are certain things which shouldn't be violated, even with the consensus of a majority.




I might not like some of the things the majority would choose to do. In fact im convinced of that. Im also convinced that the majority would not vote to reintroduce slavery or any racist policies etc. I just dont agree a minority should make all the decisions for the majority.


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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Anonymous

Re: The new era of politics [Re: GazzBut]
    #2371960 - 02/23/04 12:46 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I just dont agree a minority should make all the decisions for the majority.

of course it shouldn't. i don't think that either. no one should ever make decisions for anyone else (save perhaps their own children), majority support or not.


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: The new era of politics [Re: ]
    #2372004 - 02/23/04 12:57 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

How does this mesh with dictatorial corporate structure? Where one man makes decisions affecting everyone else in the company?


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