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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Democracy Is Not Freedom [Re: Catalysis]
    #3753993 -

Catalysis said:
People like to have a government.


Some people do, it's true. Some people do not, that is also true.

Quote:
People like restrictions against things like murder and robbery and they want an orginization that enforces those restrictions.


No kidding? The question is the nature of any enforcement, but this has really nothing to do with what Mr. Paul is talking about, nor with what I'm talking about.

Quote:
... no one who knows what is good for them wants total freedom.


What is your definition of total freedom? My preference is to be free from aggression and the threat of aggression when I am not aggressing or threatening to aggress against others. My preference is that there be no double standard for the actions of those in government vs. those of everyone else. My preference is that those who are harming no one remain unmolested by others, including the government or it's agents.

Quote:
Shit, there are plenty of lawless and chaotic places that you can go live if you would like total freedom.


Really? Please name fifty, as in my mind that number borders on 'plenty.' Why do you tie lawlessness and chaos together? Did you know that lack of law does not mean chaos? Did you know that the presence of law does not prevent chaos?

Quote:
What you all want is total freedom with the luxuries, safety, and guarantees of a government.


What I want is for people who are ignorant of the desires of others to stop making broad generalizations and assuming that they know what I and everyone else wants. Sorry to break the news to you, but you are no expert on the subject of what 'we all' want. Of course, I will concede that you are probably an expert on what you want.

Quote:
Maybe you guys are the ones who are being led around by those like Mr. Paul and Orwell who think that they can use clever semantics and the peoples' hopes of utopia to gain profit and popularity.


You should really try to understand those you are talking about and avoid spurious comments about them. Tell us:
1) What 'utopia' is Mr. Paul selling? Please back up any assertions with references to Mr. Paul's writings and/or speeches.
2) What type of profit do you think Mr Paul is trying to gain? Please back up any assertions with references to Mr. Paul's writings, speeches, income and/or non-governmental employment.
3) Do you honestly think that a man who is continuously rebuked by his own party is more concerned with popularity or doing what he believes is right? Please explain.


--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.

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Re: Democracy Is Not Freedom [Re: Ancalagon]
    #3754002 -

Khilafah is the only real freedom.


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Re: Democracy Is Not Freedom [Re: zahudulallah]
    #3754007 -

zahudulallah said:
Khilafah...


Gesundheit!


--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.

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Re: Democracy Is Not Freedom [Re: Ancalagon]
    #3754514 -

Yeah! :thumbup:

I wonder where Phlucks arguement is today.

He's a democracy luvin American-Nazi.


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We don't need democracy but _intelligent_ rules [Re: Ego Death]
    #3754970 -

Democracy is potentially dangerous. People are stupid and majority do not know anything about anything.  :mad2:

Democracy does not work if people are being constantly bombarded with disinformation and propaganda, and everyone who thinks "wrong" are subdued either by force or their own paranoia.

The system we are forced to live in is no way near smart. They tell the people what to think and then they ask their opinion and punish if you think wrong. That is not democracy.

Maybe the world governments should take high doses of LSD and think it over? They seem to have forgotten completely their purpose.

Some stupid politicians just lick the ass of the public opinion (that doesn't even exist other than as an illusion). It's a political heritage. The illusion is in peoples minds and therefore a reality.
What we see in TV and media, the horrible news and pictures that terrify, the lack of taste and intelligence. It scares us so much we keep extremely quiet low profile and drift into our own schitzoid worlds thinking about the way to improve the society without getting into trouble.

People will always use plants and drugs. If there is any problem with that then that problem is the problem, no the plant/drug.


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Like any of it matters...

Edited by Revelant (02/09/05 06:18 AM)

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Re: Democracy Is Not Freedom [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #3755011 -

Prosgeopax said:
zahudulallah said:
Khilafah...


Gesundheit!



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Re: Democracy Is Not Freedom [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #3757661 -

Yeah you are right.  Im just another "stupid american", another of the sheep who disagree with the genius that is Ron Paul.  Im dumb for thinking I knew the difference between total freedom and liberties afforded by government.  Sorry I cant address all your points but i have neither the time nor the energy.  You are correct, I concede all points.  :thumbup:

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Re: Democracy Is Not Freedom [Re: Catalysis]
    #3758513 -

Admittedly, Ron Paul does like to use high-falutin language to show off his libertarian/classical Republican leanings. But don't all politicians like to blather on like that? The basic ideas he was trying to get across are sound in my opinion.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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