I'm going to have to side with Swami on this one. I love it when he posts like he has here. 

Swami said:

One cannot be dishonest to another and honest to themselves. The inner and the outer are the SAME.

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Yep. Hiding in any degree only strengthens the illusion of seperateness from one another. The more you hide, the more energy you exerte to a useless cause. You aren't as free to live your life.

I also agree with Pattern here, though. The only times I really ever lie is when it is in relation to illegal substances. The first rule rule is survival, we need to survive before we can coexist peacefull. The only thing we can do is fight to change the laws, so we can live without having to lie, and we will have more of a chance of doing that if we are not in jail.

Frog said:

Let me put it this way, then...

Let's assume I am married to a wonderful man.  We have a wonderful marriage.  His job takes him on a weekend seminar.  He has never cheated on me, but on this seminar, he succumbs, for whatever reason, to another woman. 

He doesn't tell me about it, but for the rest of our lives together, he never tells me about it. 

I get to live the rest of our lives in marital bliss, because I don't ever find out about the indiscretion.

An alternative:  My spouse tells me about the indiscretion.  Even though he never would have gone out on me again, we spend the rest of our lives with me in anxiety because I feel bad that he had an affair, and he "might" do it again.

Which is better?

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SkorpivoMusterion said:

...I may not always tell the truth, but at least I'm honest

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Me too!

sirreal said:

Although I admit to lying sometimes just to get out of uncomfortable situations. I would like to be truthful all the time, but that is extremely hard to do. Especially when you live around judgemental people whom you love.

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I will also admit it. I used to lie a hell of a lot to get out of things. I blame it on my creative imagination. Once in sixth grade, we had this big assignment like based on one country, you know, the one where you are suspossed to be working on it for weeks. I procrastinated, and when the teacher asked me why I had nothing, I told him that my dad had came over to the house during the weekend and cleaned everything out, and that it was thrown away... (my parents were divorced and everything). I was probably close to tears, which made it more convincing, but that was only because I was so scared of him not buying it. 

I have gradually been working on the problem, and I can't really say that I lie very often anymore, its just too easy, and it doesn't exactly promote self growth. hehe. It still happens, though..... or does it? I could just be lying, you know.
Peace.

Swami said:

In my case, if it was to be a one-time event, I would want to remain in ignorance.
What if it was "only" two times and that was it?

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Quote:

In fact, when I was married, I used to tell my ex that if he had an affair, and it was a one-time deal, please don't tell me.
I promise now not to tell you when I cheat on you in the future. Feel better? 

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Well, you can't plan on cheating! 

It has to be sort of by accident.  Something not planned out.

Swami said:

I would like to be truthful all the time, ...
(Please DO NOT take this as an attack!) This statement is a lie. If you wanted to, you would. Don't complicate!

...but that is extremely hard to do.
More rationalization. There is nothing "hard" about it.

Especially when you live around judgemental people whom you love.
Shifting blame to others for your actions/words is merely abdicating responsibility.

The idea of protecting another's feelings is masquerading under the pretense that:

1. They are too weak to handle the truth.

2. You are superior in knowing what is good for them.

3. You are noble instead of fearful.

Seriously consider these concepts in depth before responding.

AUTHENTICITY requires no excuses. It requires being free from fear. This is one of the highest spiritual teachings.

AUTHENTICITY = POWER.

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First of all, I like what you say about honesty. You are right.

But, I do not think that I am lying when I say I would like to be honest all the time, even though I am not. When I do tell an untruth (no matter how small) it makes me feel bad. I do not like feeling bad.

Also, I don't usually lie to make people "feel better". I never said that was my reasoning. I usually lie to escape consequences or to avoid immediate unpleasentness. Although lying makes me feel bad, telling the truth can be even more unpleasent when you are dealing with someone who may react harshly.

When I say that I would like to be truthful all the time, what I mean is, I would like to be impervious to others reactions and be more confident in what I believe is right and wrong. But when it comes to what I feel is important and right, Almost NOONE I know feels the same way. So, I find myself being untruthful about certain things when I am around these people. I am mainly talking about family. I will not remain friends with someone who judges.

I am honest about the reasons for my untruthfulness. I never said that I was noble or superior.

"I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest."

Swami said:

The idea of protecting another's feelings is masquerading under the pretense that:

1. They are too weak to handle the truth.

2. You are superior in knowing what is good for them.

3. You are noble instead of fearful.

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Frog said:

[Two times is too much. Once is bad enough, but at least it's only once. He should live with the pain of what he did and not inflict it on me. But two times, I guess I'd have to know about it. I've heard that finding out about a spouse's affair is really painful. I'm glad I've not had to experience that.

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