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 CrimpJiggler
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 The misconception that drugs make you a bad person 
#15117849 - 09/22/11 03:38 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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I know very few of you here subscribe to such a ridiculous notion, but the majority of people seem to have the idea that drug use can only result in negative changes to a persons moral state. I said moral state cuz I can't think of the right words for it, what I mean is ones considerations and intentions regarding the well being of others. The media perpetuates the bullshit concept that when someone takes drugs they gradually become more selfish, callous and morally corrupt. In my experience its the polar opposite. Taking mind altering substances has shown me that there are different ways to perceive the world and that neurochemistry plays a large role in creating our subjective realities. As a result of seeing this I have been forced to become far more considerate about how my actions affect others. Its very easy to fall into the illusion of believing that someone else is talking about being in pain because they are just drama queens and moaning about something that everyone deals with. When I'm sober I have a high pain threshold and over the years I've become desensitized so many things that bother or scare other people, don't bother or scare me at all. I sometimes fall under the illusion of thinking that I'm just brave and these other people are pussies. Altered states have shown me that its my neurochemistry that makes these things easier to deal with for me. When I'm in a different state then I feel things that I would be numb to when sober. My feelings can be hurt by things that I would ordinarily not care about or even notice. I can be scared by things that I usually am not afraid of at all. Its from experiencing states induced by a variety of different substances that I learned this. For example when I take mushrooms I usually end up in a state in which I'm very brave and fearless but highly sensitive. On mushrooms I'm really sensitive to things like the suffering of others and it really bothers me to see it so I'm forced to change my behaviour in order to minimize the risk of me bothering other people, hurting their peoples feelings, scaring them or making them feel bad in other ways. My own feelings can be hurt a lot easier on mushrooms too.
Cannabis on the other hand I become highly susceptible to fear. On mushrooms I'm fearless and immune to paranoia (unless I'm in a bad trip) but on cannabis I can go on paranoid trips and think that my actions are leading me to my doom and I become afraid of things like running into the police or getting mugged etc. I have observed evidence that these fears are irrational and unfounded plenty of times but those observations don't seem to ease my susceptibility to fear at all when I'm on cannabis. From this I have learned to be more considerate with other people who are afraid of something. The reason they are scared of something that I am not may have more to do with their neurochemistry than psychology. On opioids I am not susceptible to fear and I am not sensitive. Instead I'm susceptible to anger and selfishness. I can go into violent rages over very little and when something goes wrong I have the automatic tendency to find someone to blame it on. Because I've experienced other states, I know that its not natural to be like that and its not justified especially consider other people might be in harder states and the last thing they need to deal with is me being a beligerant, selfish prick towards them. On amphetamines I become susceptible to this sadness when I think about the problems of other people. Its ironic because most people associate amphetamine users with being selfish and morally corrupt but this drug turns me into the opposite. I become selfless and highly considerate about other people. Altering your neurochemistry has its ups and downs which both vary in magnitude but it endows one with invaluable insight into oneself and their subjective reality so I think prohibiting them is a crime against humanity and a hindrance to our evolution and consciousness.
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…...,~__________________, ,.
….../ `—___________—-___]Give a man a gun
…../_==o;;;;;;;;_______.:/he can rob a bank.
…..), —.(_(__) /
….// (..)),````
…//__/Give a man a bank,he can rob the world!
.//__/
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 Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!
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Posts: 43,135
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Re: The misconception that drugs make you a bad person [Re: CrimpJiggler]
#15118035 - 09/22/11 04:14 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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I think the fear that drugs make you a bad person comes from the social aspects, not the neurochemical aspects.
IE when you use cocaine recreationally, you usually hang out with other cocaine users, you know multiple drug-dealers, cocaine dealers are often dangerous, you do the math. I know the drugs you're talking about aren't like cocaine, but many people don't feel too eager to risk their health or sanity for the sake of experimentation with illegal drugs. They just don't think about it past that. It's a "danger zone."
In a perfect world, cocaine would be regulated, and there would be cultural familiarity with its dangerous effects, like with alcohol. We understand the potency of alcohol, we have safe sources for it, we have social rules and a certain degree of tolerance, et cetera. That's why people don't think you're a "bad person" for drinking, even though it's worse for you than many illegal drugs.
At this rate there's no way people will just "forget" about psychedelics or any of the other illegal drugs, so I think they will all be gradually decriminalized and legalized in time. For now there's just not enough information or experience available for the government to come up with satisfactory regulations for things like psychedelics. How long it actually takes is anyone's guess, but I think cannabis is on the threshold to being legally accepted in much of the country.
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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.
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Diploid
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Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: The misconception that drugs make you a bad person [Re: CrimpJiggler]
#15118549 - 09/22/11 05:44 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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I know very few of you here subscribe to such a ridiculous notion
Oh yeah? Read the thread linked in my signature block for an assortment of idiots whose position on this point varies with the substance.
If it's a substance they use, it's all good. But if it's a substance they don't personally like, using it DOES make you a bad person as far as they're concerned.
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Republican Values:
1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.
4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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4896744
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Re: The misconception that drugs make you a bad person [Re: Diploid]
#15118740 - 09/22/11 06:08 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well smoking ganja that jah gave us is ok but its fucked up to smoke meth or do heroin. 
*takes another bump of methoxetamine*
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Live your Life! 
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Jwlst
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Re: The misconception that drugs make you a bad person [Re: 4896744] 1
#15118918 - 09/22/11 06:32 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Smoking meth is for poofters, only real men plug big veiny shrooms. 
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desert father
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Re: The misconception that drugs make you a bad person [Re: CrimpJiggler]
#15119379 - 09/22/11 07:47 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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i think people need to understand the difference between a high you experience while on a substance and the sickness you endure because of that drug.
in that regard, i think it is fair to assume that drugs may lead to behavior that may be deemed dangerous.
yet until one experiences both the high and the sickness, i'd say their opinion is jaded.
so why worry what someone who literally has no idea about your experiences has to say about them?
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vi veri veniversum vivus vici
What she said :
"I smoke 'cos I'm hoping for an
Early death
AND I NEED TO CLING TO SOMETHING !"
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Diploid
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 Re: The misconception that drugs make you a bad person [Re: desert father] 1
#15119454 - 09/22/11 08:00 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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so why worry what someone who literally has no idea about your experiences has to say about them?
Because they vote and foist their personal morality on me through laws.
This is why hypocrites have a beer and go to bed while I smoke a joint and go to prison. Nevermind that alcohol kills thousands and marijuana hasn't killed anyone in the history of the Earth.
That's why I worry what the have to say. If the assholes in society and the thread linked in my signature didn't support my imprisonment for using a substance they don't like, I wouldn't care.
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Republican Values:
1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.
4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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desert father
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Re: The misconception that drugs make you a bad person [Re: CrimpJiggler]
#15119490 - 09/22/11 08:06 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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now is there anyway you could embrace this paranoia/awareness as a strength rather than a weakness?
if you got mugged 1 out of 100 times, yet that one time your paranoia set you free from that experience, could you learn to appreciate your increased awareness rather than fear it?
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vi veri veniversum vivus vici
What she said :
"I smoke 'cos I'm hoping for an
Early death
AND I NEED TO CLING TO SOMETHING !"
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Fragment
Registered: 04/18/11
Posts: 896
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Re: The misconception that drugs make you a bad person [Re: desert father]
#15120859 - 09/23/11 01:11 AM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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People will always have misconceptions fuck em'
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HippieChick8
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Re: The misconception that drugs make you a bad person [Re: CrimpJiggler]
#15122033 - 09/23/11 10:24 AM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
CrimpJiggler said:
Cannabis on the other hand I become highly susceptible to fear. On mushrooms I'm fearless and immune to paranoia (unless I'm in a bad trip) but on cannabis I can go on paranoid trips and think that my actions are leading me to my doom and I become afraid of things like running into the police or getting mugged etc. I have observed evidence that these fears are irrational and unfounded plenty of times but those observations don't seem to ease my susceptibility to fear at all when I'm on cannabis.
It is not irrational to fear the police when you are using, and especially when you are in possession of, an illegal substance.
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CrimpJiggler
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Quote:
Tchan909 said:
I think the fear that drugs make you a bad person comes from the social aspects, not the neurochemical aspects.
Yeah you're right, I forgot to mention that. My financial situation has never been bad and although I do associate with cocaine dealers (I don't do coke but the best dealer I ever had was primarily a coke dealer) and users from time to time, I never get involved in any illegal activities as a result of my substance use (or for any other reasons). These negative lifestyle implications are properties of the drugs being illegal, not the drugs themselves. Its kind of ironic that the media portrays it like the war on drugs is to protect people from these horrible things when in reality its the war on drugs that is creating them to begin with.
Quote:
Tchan909 said:
In a perfect world, cocaine would be regulated, and there would be cultural familiarity with its dangerous effects, like with alcohol.
Couldn't agree with you more. This doesn't just relate to drugs, its a matter of freedom. If you are not harming anyone else, then its not a crime. I think things like prostitution should be legalised because like drug users, a lot of the negative lifestyle implications that prostitutes have to live with are caused by the fact it is illegal.
Quote:
Diploid said:
If it's a substance they use, it's all good. But if it's a substance they don't personally like, using it DOES make you a bad person as far as they're concerned.
These hypocritical bastards are no better than full on anti-drug freaks in my opinion. I don't smoke or drink but I've got nothing against people who do and I certainly wouldn't support the idea that they shouldn't be allowed to ingest these substances. Illegal drugs are no different. I don't smoke crack but I have nothing against people who do. The same people who can't get up in the morning without drinking coffee, can't go an hour without a cigarette and get drunk on social occasions are often the kinda people who judge users of drugs that happen to be illegal.
Quote:
Diploid said:
Because they vote and foist their personal morality on me through laws.
Yep. The twisted thing is some of them get very passionate about ensuring that everyone else is deprived of the freedom to alter their mind and believe they are the good guys doing the right thing.
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…...,~__________________, ,.
….../ `—___________—-___]Give a man a gun
…../_==o;;;;;;;;_______.:/he can rob a bank.
…..), —.(_(__) /
….// (..)),````
…//__/Give a man a bank,he can rob the world!
.//__/
Edited by CrimpJiggler (09/23/11 11:10 AM)
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CrimpJiggler
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Re: The misconception that drugs make you a bad person [Re: Diploid]
#15122139 - 09/23/11 10:54 AM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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double post
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…...,~__________________, ,.
….../ `—___________—-___]Give a man a gun
…../_==o;;;;;;;;_______.:/he can rob a bank.
…..), —.(_(__) /
….// (..)),````
…//__/Give a man a bank,he can rob the world!
.//__/
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Kickle
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Re: The misconception that drugs make you a bad person [Re: CrimpJiggler]
#15122416 - 09/23/11 12:02 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Mr. Bojangles
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Re: The misconception that drugs make you a bad person [Re: Kickle]
#15125422 - 09/23/11 10:59 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm an addict whose completely sober now...I've definitely behaved very very badly under the influence of drugs and not under the influence of drugs. I don't like to use the term "bad person" though. I will admit that up to a certain point of usage, drugs seemed ok...but then they started to exacerbate the negative parts of me. I'm not saying that drugs create the negative parts of these so-called "bad people", and definitely not all drug users act negatively.
But addict wise...the behavior was always there, before the drugs...that's why I loved the drugs so much. And drugs might have made things worse, but they did not create the problem. Drug using is a symptom of bad people, not the other way around. Again...I'm not saying that all drug users are bad people, just the ones that are tend to have been bad before they started using.
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"It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong."
Francois-Marie Arouet
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dshow
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Re: The misconception that drugs make you a bad person [Re: Mr. Bojangles]
#15128659 - 09/24/11 05:36 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Through the use of MDMA, shrooms, and lsd. I have become a much much MUCH better person. I am not even near as much of an elitist as i once was. I accept people for who they are more and i try to tone down any hate for something i know nothing of.
It has made me a much better person. Im actually more mature and polite since i started using droogz.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: The misconception that drugs make you a bad person [Re: dshow]
#15129123 - 09/24/11 07:40 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Drugs have definitely lessened my ego. I am way more humble than anyone else here.
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
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Re: The misconception that drugs make you a bad person [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#15129136 - 09/24/11 07:43 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Drugs have definitely lessened my ego. I am way more humble than anyone else here.
Drooling will do that.
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Anxiety is what you make it.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: The misconception that drugs make you a bad person [Re: LunarEclipse]
#15129146 - 09/24/11 07:46 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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He's so fine
Drool-lang, drool-lang
Wish he were mine
Drool-lang, drool-lang
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Re: The misconception that drugs make you a bad person [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#15129206 - 09/24/11 08:00 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
He's so fine
Drool-lang, drool-lang
Wish he were mine
Drool-lang, drool-lang
Wipe your chin.
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Anxiety is what you make it.
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desert father
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Re: The misconception that drugs make you a bad person [Re: CrimpJiggler] 1
#15143474 - 09/27/11 06:43 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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also how about the misconception that doing drugs makes you an exceptional/extraordinary person?
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vi veri veniversum vivus vici
What she said :
"I smoke 'cos I'm hoping for an
Early death
AND I NEED TO CLING TO SOMETHING !"
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Kickle
Wanderer
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Posts: 17,978
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Re: The misconception that drugs make you a bad person [Re: desert father]
#15143671 - 09/27/11 07:20 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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CrimpJiggler
Stranger
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Posts: 251
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Re: The misconception that drugs make you a bad person [Re: desert father]
#15167044 - 10/02/11 01:27 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
desert father said:
also how about the misconception that doing drugs makes you an exceptional/extraordinary person?
Is that misconception so ubiquitous and profoundly embedded in the concensus that it results in hundreds of thousands of otherwise law abiding citizens being imprisoned, drugs cartels turning 3rd world countries into warzones and countless people being deprived of the freedom to explore their own minds and seek alternative remedies for ailments that conventional doctors can't or won't prescribe an effective remedy for? Do you even know the definitions of the words extraordinary and exceptional? Given that drug users are the minority, they are by the very definitions of the words, exceptional and extraordinary.
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…...,~__________________, ,.
….../ `—___________—-___]Give a man a gun
…../_==o;;;;;;;;_______.:/he can rob a bank.
…..), —.(_(__) /
….// (..)),````
…//__/Give a man a bank,he can rob the world!
.//__/
Edited by CrimpJiggler (10/02/11 01:34 PM)
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Kickle
Wanderer
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Re: The misconception that drugs make you a bad person [Re: CrimpJiggler]
#15167147 - 10/02/11 01:45 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Do you even know the definitions of the words extraordinary and exceptional?
Do you? Those words can mean more than what you're suggesting. And it is the alternative meaning that is implied by many drug users.
"If everyone used [insert drug of choice here] then [insert world problem here] would end."
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