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 Mycomancer
Psi Cubed
Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 586
Loc: United States
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 10x potency psilocybin powder   1
#2125674 - 11/20/03 05:26 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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I found this a while back on a newsgroup, and I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with the method below, is the chemistry actually accurate, and does it hold up to its claim of increasing mushroom potency 10x? Thanks,
mycomancer
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From: no@spamtoday (x33c@hotmail.com)
Subject: Re: Make Gelltabs from dried shroms...
Newsgroups: alt.drugs.mushrooms
Date: 2003-01-10 04:50:32 PST
A useful approach is to soak powdered mushrooms in
ethanol (everclear, vodka) overnight, filter out the
pulp (squeeze it in t-shirt). Do this two times for
each amount of powdered mushrooms. Then discard the
pulp, save the liquid.
Now dissolve some vitamin C in the smallest possible
amount of water (0.1 gram vitC for each gram of
mushroom pulp)
Mix the alcoholic mushroom extract with the vit-C
water, evaporate to dryness. in a shallow dish.
The resulting powder is 10x the potency of the
mushrooms and can be put in gellcaps. It is also very
soluble in drinkable liquids. I wouldn't put it into
gelcaps since they dissolve more slowly compared to
the mushrooms or the ascorbate powder. They slow down
the trip.
The name of this powder, which is a salt, is
'psilocybin ascorbate' and it is probably the most
stable form of psilocybin.
(OK- it is psilocybin ascorbate cut with ascorbic
acid)
Yachaj
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theshiftingwalls
Divine state
Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 4,128
Loc: Residing in thee Universa...
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 Re: 10x potency psilocybin powder [Re: Mycomancer]
#2125729 - 11/20/03 06:05 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Sounds fake to me...
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Mycomancer
Psi Cubed
Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 586
Loc: United States
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Yeah, i'm a bit sceptikal about it too, hence the post, but this Yachaj guy was pretty knowledgable in his other posts on the group. Just wanted to throw it at you guys(especially the chemists) to see what ya think about it. Trying to be optimisitic. Any reason to see why it would or wouldn't work?
mycomancer
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 HidingInPlainSight
Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 2,077
Loc: Oklahoma City , OK, USA 
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
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Re: 10x potency psilocybin powder [Re: Mycomancer]
#2125905 - 11/20/03 07:21 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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 , you could get the same effects of that as taking Vitamin C with however many mushrooms you would've extracted psilocybin/psilocin from.
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Infrared
sleeping
Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 12,988
Loc: Chicago, USA
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: 10x potency psilocybin powder [Re: Mycomancer]
#2125931 - 11/20/03 07:32 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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technically in theory it should work. psilocin is soluable in non-polar liquids such as ethanol and methanol ( which is better) . then the ascorbate water is added to make the psilocin a salt which should be more stable. all this is, is a short cut extraction. i don't know if it will be "10x more potent" but you will definately have to consume less material.
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When chemistry is outlawed.. Only outlaws have chemistry
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John
ssdp.org
Registered: 08/08/03
Posts: 7,026
Loc: Vancouver, B.C.
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 Re: 10x potency psilocybin powder [Re: Infrared]
#2126144 - 11/20/03 09:05 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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methnanol and ethanol are iffy in there polarities (water will disslove in ethnol but so will fats ect.) hence why a bottle of everclear won't be two layers like if you mixed a polar and non-polar and you can use it to extract thc. psilocybin is soluble in polar liquids anyway, if it was non-polar soluable how would making a tea work? Anyway with that 'extract' you'll have alot more shit in it than psilocybin ascorbate cut with ascorbic acid.
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There's a thin line between sanity and insanity... and I just snorted it.
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mjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/21/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
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Re: 10x potency psilocybin powder [Re: Mycomancer]
#2126718 - 11/21/03 03:57 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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DO not put shrooms into ethanol. A chemist could use methanol to extract psilocine but the amount is not worth thee effort. in a one/eight ounce of shrooms, dried P. cubensis 3 and 1/2 grams equal 3,500 milligrams of poweder. the amount of psilocine inthose 3,500 milligrams is 15-25 milligrams a nimute amount out of 3,500 and the residue would have to be put through a seive with methanol, not ethanol and it is not worth thei rime or hassle since you could get sick uif it is not fully evaporated.
mj
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beatlebangboy
Absinthe-ian
Registered: 07/31/03
Posts: 2,354
Loc: Bum Fuck Florida
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
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Re: 10x potency psilocybin powder [Re: mjshroomer]
#2127020 - 11/21/03 10:08 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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mjshroomer,
is there anything you don't know about mushrooms?
--------------------
"Be kind to the people you meet on the way up, cause you're gonna meet the same people on the way down.........It happens to me every day in the sewer.
Ed Norton
--------------------
Check out my tunes. You will be better off for it.
www.myspace.com/beatlebangboy
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thrdel
Stranger
Registered: 08/15/16
Posts: 7
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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 Re: 10x potency psilocybin powder [Re: mjshroomer]
#24720166 - 10/18/17 05:47 PM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
mjshroomer said:
DO not put shrooms into ethanol. A chemist could use methanol to extract psilocine but the amount is not worth thee effort. in a one/eight ounce of shrooms, dried P. cubensis 3 and 1/2 grams equal 3,500 milligrams of poweder. the amount of psilocine inthose 3,500 milligrams is 15-25 milligrams a nimute amount out of 3,500 and the residue would have to be put through a seive with methanol, not ethanol and it is not worth thei rime or hassle since you could get sick uif it is not fully evaporated.
mj
As far as I understand , the solvent of choice (ethanol or methanol) depends on what one plans to extract. Psilocin seems to be soluble in Acetone,Chloroform,Ether ,Hexane,Methanol and slightly soluble in Water. Psilocin seems to be far less polar than Psilocybin and ,as mj said,in far less quantities in shrooms.
Any water extraction or water containing solvent extraction will also extract an enzyme that causes the Dephosphorylation of psilocybin into psilocin.
Psilocin undergoes oxidation quite quickly, thus rendering it inactive.
Ascorbic acid (Vitamin C) somehow inhibits (or slows down dramatically) the oxidation of psilocin.
The 10x stronger effect is arguable but has some possible explanations.
One of them is that Psilocybin has to undergo metabolic Dephosphorylation in the body (liver ?) and a certain amount is eliminated during the metabolic phase.
If left in an slightly acidic water long enough (some say 60-90 minutes) , Psilocybin is Dephosphorylated by the enzyme contained in the shroom , hence the tea has a higher content of Psilocin on ingestion and that leads to shorter come up times (there are reports indicating 5 min or less), stronger effects and shorter duration of the experience.
The tea trends to turn blue-greenish because of the oxidation of Psilocin.
Vitamin C inhibits/slows down the oxidation process as opposed to other weak acids (vinegar, etc)
"Rumor" has it that aqueous extraction with Vitamin C renders Keller reagent test and Mandelin test useless, they will not show any indication for psilocin or psilocybin so one needs to be aware when testing.
For the Psilocybin extraction, Methanol is the solvent of choice for most scientists who published papers on extraction of psilocybin because the enzyme that does the Dephosphorylation is not soluble in methanol (or possible very slightly soluble).
Ethanol absorbs moisture very fast thus it is not suitable for psilocybin extraction (water will extract and activate the Dephosphorylation enzyme).
Psilocybin extraction seems to be the preferred choice since it is much more stable , does not oxidize easily and can be stored for much longer in normal conditions (sealed container in fridge).
As mj said, small qty is definitely not worth the trouble.
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krypto2000
Unknown
Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 11,579
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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Re: 10x potency psilocybin powder [Re: thrdel]
#24720222 - 10/18/17 06:09 PM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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I don't see why it would not work provided the boiling off does not oxidize it. I've done this with methanol and the extract was only 1/4 the original dry mushroom weight though, not 1/10, but I did exhaustively extract it.
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thrdel
Stranger
Registered: 08/15/16
Posts: 7
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: 10x potency psilocybin powder [Re: krypto2000]
#24720448 - 10/18/17 07:31 PM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
krypto2000 said:
I don't see why it would not work provided the boiling off does not oxidize it. I've done this with methanol and the extract was only 1/4 the original dry mushroom weight though, not 1/10, but I did exhaustively extract it.
Boiling off does not break down Psilocybin or Psilocin, they break down with decomposition at much higher temperatures (over 190 C ) and the boiling is only for 10 min or so.
Psilocybin is water soluble and Psilocin dissolves in boiling water.
Dephosphorization of Psilocybin into Psilocin happens in acidic solutions and around 70 C temp.
Oxidation of psilocin is not an instant reaction. Temperature (Boiling) does not "oxidize" anything, it just speeds up the process. Oxidation is a chemical reaction, boiling isn't.
The remaining residue quantity varies. Some shrooms, when dried ,lose 97% of fresh weight. I assume there's not much residue after a Methanol extraction.
Cubensis in general produce quite a bit more than 10% residue but after defating and precipitation of the proteins , it goes down quite a bit.
Subaeruginosa usually leaves less than 10%.
And of course, if the residue isn't dried properly....
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Threads from God89
Pioneer.......
Registered: 08/10/17
Posts: 1,908
Loc: USA
Last seen: 3 days, 3 hours
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Re: 10x potency psilocybin powder [Re: thrdel]
#24720675 - 10/18/17 09:27 PM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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I did something like this with 180 proof corn alchohol. Ground an ounce down into fine powder, put it in a glass jar with everclear at least covering an inch over top of powder, boil double boiler style for 3 hours, blah blah, followed "crystals of the gods" tek.
I ended up with four liquid ounces of alcoholic mushroom extract, four small spoonfuls gets me tripping!!! Something like that is worth doing in my opinion, especially if fruits are plentiful!!! 
--------------------
Admirer of Bushido....... Seeker of Truth, and Knowledge.
I Will Keep the Fire going, and the Good Wolf fed.......
( We Are All Threads from God.)
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LincolnCityTripper
Mushroom Maniac
Registered: 04/02/14
Posts: 1,395
Loc: Wonderland
Last seen: 4 months, 10 days
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This thread is 14 years old 
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krypto2000
Unknown
Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 11,579
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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Re: 10x potency psilocybin powder [Re: thrdel]
#24721408 - 10/19/17 09:07 AM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
thrdel said:
Quote:
krypto2000 said:
I don't see why it would not work provided the boiling off does not oxidize it. I've done this with methanol and the extract was only 1/4 the original dry mushroom weight though, not 1/10, but I did exhaustively extract it.
Boiling off does not break down Psilocybin or Psilocin, they break down with decomposition at much higher temperatures (over 190 C ) and the boiling is only for 10 min or so.
Psilocybin is water soluble and Psilocin dissolves in boiling water.
Dephosphorization of Psilocybin into Psilocin happens in acidic solutions and around 70 C temp.
Oxidation of psilocin is not an instant reaction. Temperature (Boiling) does not "oxidize" anything, it just speeds up the process. Oxidation is a chemical reaction, boiling isn't.
The remaining residue quantity varies. Some shrooms, when dried ,lose 97% of fresh weight. I assume there's not much residue after a Methanol extraction.
Cubensis in general produce quite a bit more than 10% residue but after defating and precipitation of the proteins , it goes down quite a bit.
Subaeruginosa usually leaves less than 10%.
And of course, if the residue isn't dried properly....
Yeah, so as I said.
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sbc1
magic
Registered: 11/12/12
Posts: 357
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
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Re: 10x potency psilocybin powder [Re: thrdel]
#24722053 - 10/19/17 01:38 PM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
thrdel said:
Quote:
mjshroomer said:
DO not put shrooms into ethanol. A chemist could use methanol to extract psilocine but the amount is not worth thee effort. in a one/eight ounce of shrooms, dried P. cubensis 3 and 1/2 grams equal 3,500 milligrams of poweder. the amount of psilocine inthose 3,500 milligrams is 15-25 milligrams a nimute amount out of 3,500 and the residue would have to be put through a seive with methanol, not ethanol and it is not worth thei rime or hassle since you could get sick uif it is not fully evaporated.
mj
As far as I understand , the solvent of choice (ethanol or methanol) depends on what one plans to extract. Psilocin seems to be soluble in Acetone,Chloroform,Ether ,Hexane,Methanol and slightly soluble in Water. Psilocin seems to be far less polar than Psilocybin and ,as mj said,in far less quantities in shrooms.
Any water extraction or water containing solvent extraction will also extract an enzyme that causes the Dephosphorylation of psilocybin into psilocin.
Psilocin undergoes oxidation quite quickly, thus rendering it inactive.
Ascorbic acid (Vitamin C) somehow inhibits (or slows down dramatically) the oxidation of psilocin.
The 10x stronger effect is arguable but has some possible explanations.
One of them is that Psilocybin has to undergo metabolic Dephosphorylation in the body (liver ?) and a certain amount is eliminated during the metabolic phase.
If left in an slightly acidic water long enough (some say 60-90 minutes) , Psilocybin is Dephosphorylated by the enzyme contained in the shroom , hence the tea has a higher content of Psilocin on ingestion and that leads to shorter come up times (there are reports indicating 5 min or less), stronger effects and shorter duration of the experience.
The tea trends to turn blue-greenish because of the oxidation of Psilocin.
Vitamin C inhibits/slows down the oxidation process as opposed to other weak acids (vinegar, etc)
"Rumor" has it that aqueous extraction with Vitamin C renders Keller reagent test and Mandelin test useless, they will not show any indication for psilocin or psilocybin so one needs to be aware when testing.
For the Psilocybin extraction, Methanol is the solvent of choice for most scientists who published papers on extraction of psilocybin because the enzyme that does the Dephosphorylation is not soluble in methanol (or possible very slightly soluble).
Ethanol absorbs moisture very fast thus it is not suitable for psilocybin extraction (water will extract and activate the Dephosphorylation enzyme).
Psilocybin extraction seems to be the preferred choice since it is much more stable , does not oxidize easily and can be stored for much longer in normal conditions (sealed container in fridge).
As mj said, small qty is definitely not worth the trouble.
Thrdel do you have a tek to extract psilocybin/psilocin
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krypto2000
Unknown
Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 11,579
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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Re: 10x potency psilocybin powder [Re: sbc1]
#24722188 - 10/19/17 02:33 PM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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Here you go. That will convert the psilocybin to psilocin as described above. To extract a pure form of psilocybin you will have to do chromotography or something as it's too polar to go into a non-polar solvent so if you want to isolate the alkaloids conversion is the way to go.
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thrdel
Stranger
Registered: 08/15/16
Posts: 7
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: 10x potency psilocybin powder [Re: sbc1]
#25259035 - 06/10/18 07:04 AM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Thrdel do you have a tek to extract psilocybin/psilocin
Not yet. At least not a complete one that works well.
It seems that conversion psilocybin to psilocin is best option so far. Raise pH with ammonia soln and extract x 2 with Diethyl Ether in a sep funnel. At this point the ether may be a bit wet.
Dry the ether with sodium sulfate and evaporate solvent (or recycle, ether evaporates bellow 40°C).
The oily residue doesn't seem to be readily crystallizing. A bit of research and testing still needed there. Maybe fumaric acid ? Maybe ascorbic acid ? Or maybe redissolve in water and go for water/toluene 20:80 Dean-Stark trap to remove the water and see if crystals will drop out of toluene.
Psilocybin is much too polar and hard to separate from impurities , or so it seems.
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