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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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moral relativism
    #19217323 -

recently NPR had a pretty nice piece where they polled a bunch of people the following questions.

1) imagine that there are 5 workers, working on some train tracks and a train is coming. the only thing you can do to save them is pull a lever to make the train switch tracks, but there is 1 person working over there. Basically, your choice is to pull the lever, kill 1 guy and save 5, or do nothing and 5 people will die.

9 out of 10 people said they would pull the lever as I am sure most of you would.

2) same scenario, except this time you are on a bridge overlooking the train tracks and the 1 person is standing next to you. the only way to save those 5 people is to push the guy onto the tracks to stop the train.

9 out of 10 people said they would not push the guy.


now that is odd, because ultimately they are the exact same things, with the exact same outcome. why do the majority of people, regardless of background, ethnicity, even culture overwhelmingly choose the same answers to those questions?

why would we choose to drastically change the outcome of two almost identical situations? the act of pushing someone is somehow worse than pulling a lever.

it works like that in many situations... I am sure it would be considered inhumane if instead of the "throwing of the switch" in electric chair death row situations was replaced with a person directly electrocuting them with some overpowered cattle prod.

I wish they would have delved deeper into the concept of "the lever" rather than focusing on why, when and how the moral centers of our brain become more active in these situations.

i wish that they would keep polling variations of the same question with slightly different minutia to pinpoint the very exact point at which a "lever" no longer has us making a moral distinction.

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Re: moral relativism [Re: SneezingPenis] * 1
    #19217398 -

For one thing it is physically harder to push someone off a train then to pull a lever, also your own life could be put at risk trying to throw someone off a train, so maybe that has something to do with it as well. Also it isn't very realistic to have to throw a guy off the train, when you could ask him to move.

People are probably considering how unrealistic the situation is as well.

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Re: moral relativism [Re: SneezingPenis] * 2
    #19217412 -

I would not act. 
  I'd not want that on my conscience.  Seriously. I'd let them all die.  I did not create the situation and I'm not responsible for the outcome. That's in the creators realm and I'm not about to meddle in its affairs.  For all I know those five people would start the next Nazi like society.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: moral relativism [Re: Icelander]
    #19217417 -

Yeah, but what if inaction meant that you would die too?

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Re: moral relativism [Re: teknix]
    #19217421 -

That wasn't part of the scenario.  I'd likely act to save myself.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: moral relativism [Re: Icelander]
    #19217425 -

In both scenario's right?

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Re: moral relativism [Re: teknix]
    #19217492 -

Of course. I come first in all cases even if I give up my life.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: moral relativism [Re: Icelander]
    #19217584 -

now i remember why i quit posting in here...

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Re: moral relativism [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #19217685 -

I don't remember but I'm sure I agree with your absence. :haha:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: moral relativism [Re: Icelander]
    #19217720 -

eh, that wasn't really directed at you. just the overall nature of this forum. everything descends into arguing semantics. People treat hypothetical situations like they are loophole riddles rather than get into actual discussion about what it presents.

its ok though. I did that shit the entire time i was here posting regularly.

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Re: moral relativism [Re: SneezingPenis] * 1
    #19217761 -

It's a question that's simply full of loopholes, How bout taking your clothes off and throwing them on the track. Throwing a person on the tracks isn't going to stop a train unless the engineer engages the brakes. Why doesn't the respondent just jump on the tracks along with the psychologist who created this question.

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Re: moral relativism [Re: falcon]
    #19217768 -

the questions weren't posited at you. I presented the data from an informal poll. that was what we were supposed to be discussing. but this forum is full of people who spent a little too much time "being introspective" and cannot imagine any situation beyond themselves.

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Re: moral relativism [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #19217811 -

Alrighty, then maybe, when you're pulling the lever, it's likely you're an employee of the rail line, you're part of the team that moves the trains around,  it's likely the respondents feel more responsibility when imagining themselves in this situation than when they are an onlooker.

Also the guy on the bridge hasn't put himself in harms way by being in a position to be run over by a train unless someone throws someone else in front of the train, while in the other question, you've have to chose between saving one or five reckless people.

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Re: moral relativism [Re: falcon]
    #19217822 -

yeah, i am not asking you what you and Wiley Coyote would do in those situations. I was asking why the majority of people make that distinction.

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Re: moral relativism [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #19217850 -

I'm supplying reasons why people may have responded the way they did these situations are not equivalent IMO and I think most people would view it the same way the me an Wiley do.

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Re: moral relativism [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #19217865 -

SneezingPenis said:
yeah, i am not asking you what you and Wiley Coyote would do in those situations. I was asking why the majority of people make that distinction.


Then post the scenario correctly, because it is pretty half-assed, so what do you expect?

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Re: moral relativism [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #19217882 -

SneezingPenis said:
yeah, i am not asking you what you and Wiley Coyote would do in those situations. I was asking why the majority of people make that distinction.


Because everyone wants to save their own ass first. Too much physical interaction equals too much risk of failure.

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Re: moral relativism [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #19218159 -

SneezingPenis said:
eh, that wasn't really directed at you. just the overall nature of this forum. everything descends into arguing semantics. People treat hypothetical situations like they are loophole riddles rather than get into actual discussion about what it presents.

its ok though. I did that shit the entire time i was here posting regularly.


That's just how humans behave most of the time. It's not special to this forum that's for sure. But here you are posting again. Welcome back the prodigal son.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: moral relativism [Re: Icelander]
    #19218497 -

Icelander said:
I would not act. 
  I'd not want that on my conscience.  Seriously. I'd let them all die.  I did not create the situation and I'm not responsible for the outcome. That's in the creators realm and I'm not about to meddle in its affairs.  For all I know those five people would start the next Nazi like society.


Doesn't work that way.  No man is an island and you are always responsible for your actions which includes inaction.  In the words of Rush, "If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice"

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Re: moral relativism [Re: DieCommie]
    #19219294 -

I didn't say anything about not making a choice.:tongue: I just told you what my choice would be and why. :wink: 
Quote:
Seriously. I'd let them all die.

  And that's my choice.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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