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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: are there morals? [Re: Sclorch]
    #896707 - 09/21/02 03:18 AM (19 years, 7 days ago)

Heh, heh. Is that a Freudian slip?

God, I am even more clever than I thought!


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: are there morals? [Re: Albino_Jesus]
    #896714 - 09/21/02 03:21 AM (19 years, 7 days ago)

morals don't exist, but ethics do

Can you elaborate?
I just wanna know your take. :smile:


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineAlbino_Jesus
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Re: are there morals? [Re: Sclorch]
    #896738 - 09/21/02 03:37 AM (19 years, 7 days ago)

In reply to:

Can you elaborate?
I just wanna know your take.





moral - Of or concerned with the judgment of the goodness or badness of human action and character


I consider the definition of "ethical" a hybrid between "altruistic" (Unselfish concern for the welfare of others; selflessness. )
and "moral"

morals can be petty bullshit that has no real effect on the well-being of a population, things like "no sex before marriage", it's well known that sex, when the right precautions are taken, can be a great experience for both(or several *giggle*) participants and cause harm to no one. but because of silly old-fashioned mentality, it's still considered immoral by many. morals are subjective, and are molded in a person by culture and family/religious traditions
ethics, to me, deals with simply behaving in such a way that you are not causing harm or unnecessary pain/stress to other people. "harm" has a fairly concrete/objective definiton.


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The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader



Edited by Albino_Jesus (09/21/02 03:38 AM)


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OfflineCleverName
the cloudsshould know meby now...

Registered: 08/26/02
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Re: are there morals? [Re: Albino_Jesus]
    #897145 - 09/21/02 12:30 PM (19 years, 7 days ago)

yes, causing harm may not be "nice"
but is it wrong or right?
whos to judge?
society?
individual?
society does need rules to operate more smoothly, but there just as imaginary as ghosts...contacts with matter make us feel heat and cold, pleasure and pain. we must learn to endure fleeting things-they come and go! when these cannot torment a man, when suffering and joy are equal for him and he has courage, he is fit for immortality. Nothing of nonbeing vomes to be, nor does being cease to exist; the boundry between these two is seen by men who see reality. indestructable is the presence that pervades all this; no one can destroy this unchanging reality. he who thinks this self a killer and he who thinks it killed, both fail to understand; it does not kill, nor is it killed. when a man knows the self to be indestructable, enduring, unborn, unchanging, how does he kill or cause anyone to kill?


--------------------
if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: are there morals? [Re: Albino_Jesus]
    #897163 - 09/21/02 12:41 PM (19 years, 7 days ago)

So... ethics should take a more utilitarian approach?

Yeah, morals suck.


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OfflineAlbino_Jesus
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Re: are there morals? [Re: CleverName]
    #897172 - 09/21/02 12:45 PM (19 years, 7 days ago)

In reply to:

yes, causing harm may not be "nice"
but is it wrong or right?
whos to judge?
society?
individual?





no one wants to be harmed(with the exception of masochists, but even masochists consider some things to be undesirable, such as not having the freedom to practice masochism). this is the only thing subjective that we all share. but since it's shared by all, can't it in some sense be deemed 'objective'? I firmly support that whole "do unto others..." philosophy. let people live the way they wish as long as they aren't affecting people personally in a negative way, and don't run around being a punk, disregarding other people and their emotions and needs and desires. I think it's the only way we can all get along.


--------------------
The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader



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OfflineAlbino_Jesus
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Re: are there morals? [Re: CleverName]
    #897184 - 09/21/02 12:51 PM (19 years, 7 days ago)

In reply to:

. we must learn to endure fleeting things-they come and go!




but if unnecessary pain in the world can be reduced through everyone being "nice", isn't this more desirable than a bunch of desensitised, jaded fuckers being inconsiderate to one another because it doesn't matter anyway?


--------------------
The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader



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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: are there morals? [Re: Albino_Jesus]
    #897201 - 09/21/02 01:02 PM (19 years, 7 days ago)

What about Hunter S. Thompson?

He hardcore fucks with people and I can't help but love the guy.


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OfflineCleverName
the cloudsshould know meby now...

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Re: are there morals? [Re: Albino_Jesus]
    #897213 - 09/21/02 01:08 PM (19 years, 7 days ago)

"isn't this more desirable than a bunch of desensitised, jaded fuckers being inconsiderate to one another because it doesn't matter anyway? "

who said everyone would be a bunch of desensitised, jaded fuckers being inconsiderate to one another? love is another issue.

"unnecessary pain in the world can be reduced through everyone being "nice",

this is only one way to reduce pain, if it were only as simple as being nice....
satisfaction is the death of desire


--------------------
if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose


Edited by CleverName (09/21/02 01:10 PM)


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OfflineAlbino_Jesus
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Re: are there morals? [Re: Sclorch]
    #897214 - 09/21/02 01:09 PM (19 years, 7 days ago)

hmmm
I don't know if I'd consider "fucking with people" harming anyone. running around saying/doing crazy things gives you a laugh and just makes people go "whaaaa?  :confused: "


--------------------
The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader



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OfflineAlbino_Jesus
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Re: are there morals? [Re: CleverName]
    #897216 - 09/21/02 01:10 PM (19 years, 7 days ago)

I assure you that many would be desensitised, jaded fuckers.
many already are.
if no one attempted to ease the pains of life at all, we'd have more of them.


--------------------
The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader



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OfflineCleverName
the cloudsshould know meby now...

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Re: are there morals? [Re: Albino_Jesus]
    #897222 - 09/21/02 01:12 PM (19 years, 7 days ago)

how one takes in the impulses around him/her is entirely up to that individual.
if you are sad it is b/c YOU are sad
if you are happy it is b/c YOU are happy
you hold the keys


--------------------
if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Re: are there morals? [Re: Albino_Jesus]
    #897223 - 09/21/02 01:12 PM (19 years, 7 days ago)

Fair enough... but he did run out hotel bills, still probably fights with random people all the time, wields a handgun often (I heard awhile back that he accidentally shot his secretary), and he's damaged alot of personal property no doubt.

Not that I'm disapproving or anything....


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OfflineAlbino_Jesus
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Re: are there morals? [Re: Sclorch]
    #897252 - 09/21/02 01:26 PM (19 years, 7 days ago)

In reply to:

Fair enough... but he did run out hotel bills, still probably fights with random people all the time, wields a handgun often (I heard awhile back that he accidentally shot his secretary), and he's damaged alot of personal property no doubt.







hahaha... well, that's more than just fucking with people, methinks.
I'd consider that being a belligerent punk


--------------------
The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader



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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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