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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Why should I behave morally? [Re: deranger]
    #10672131 -

deCypher said:
  What negative effects would I incur by acting immorally?


Sounds like you're gonna just have to figure that one out for yourself.

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Re: Why should I behave morally? [Re: deCypher]
    #10672175 -

Acting immorally and then attempting to justify these actions on a public, psychedelic forum will only add to the already existing fear surrounding the use of psychedelic drugs and this my friend, will affect us all.

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Re: Why should I behave morally? [Re: zen buddy]
    #10672242 -

DC's moral outlook made me swear off all drugs so maybe that is a good thing. :smile:


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Re: Why should I behave morally? [Re: zen buddy]
    #10672270 -

daytripper23 said:
Why ask?


Because my inability to think of compelling reasons to behave morally does not imply their nonexistence.

zen buddy said:
deCypher said:
  What negative effects would I incur by acting immorally?


Sounds like you're gonna just have to figure that one out for yourself.


Are you suggesting I behave immorally?  :eek:

zen buddy said:
Acting immorally and then attempting to justify these actions on a public, psychedelic forum will only add to the already existing fear surrounding the use of psychedelic drugs and this my friend, will affect us all.


I see.  Naturally we should avoid all philosophical discussion about morality because free conversation is a bad thing.  :lol:


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Why should I behave morally? [Re: deCypher]
    #10672296 -

Quote:
I see.  Naturally we should avoid all philosophical discussion about morality because free conversation is a bad thing. 


You are now officially a Republican. :congrats:


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Re: Why should I behave morally? [Re: deCypher]
    #10672334 -

deCypher said:
I see.  Naturally we should avoid all philosophical discussion about morality because free conversation is a bad thing.  :lol:


:tapemouth:


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Re: Why should I behave morally? [Re: deCypher]
    #10672357 -

deCypher said:
zen buddy said:
Acting immorally and then attempting to justify these actions on a public, psychedelic forum will only add to the already existing fear surrounding the use of psychedelic drugs and this my friend, will affect us all.


I see.  Naturally we should avoid all philosophical discussion about morality because free conversation is a bad thing.  :lol:


That's not at all what I said... nice try.  :rolleyes:

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Re: Why should I behave morally? [Re: deCypher]
    #10672727 -

Ontology? That doesn't address the question as I meant it.

Do we need an authority to act? That's the only answer to the ontological question.


--------------------
Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
  The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
  The frumious Bandersnatch!

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Re: Why should I behave morally? [Re: daytripper23]
    #10672893 -

The ancient Sumerians described planets in our solar system, that we have just recently discovered. They had knowledge of the galaxy that passes our knowledge any day.

The Sumerians depicted exactly how the planets look, Thousands of years ago.

They also explain when the Gods came down from the heavens, and that is how I know that the gods said "do unto others as you want done unto you" All though not all gods said this. Some gods required sacrifices.

Their cosmic knowledge is evidence of an enlightened physical state. No body can achieve enlightenment when they have toxins in their body. Also, nobody can achieve enlightenment when they are worrying about whether or not they are being moral or immoral. You are going to act off of your instincts no matter what. If you let your emotions control your actions, that is when you will have a problem.

Evil forces feed off of negative emotions.

Don't go to the Dark Side

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Re: Why should I behave morally? [Re: zen buddy]
    #10673163 -

zen buddy said:
...it doesn't matter what society believes is moral or immoral, your conscience knows and that is what you should follow.


It's an interesting question where this conscience comes from.  Is it genetic?  Does it come from your parents or society?  I suspect a combination of these factors so I don't think it's necessarily wise to trust your conscience if it's been influenced by external factors that might not have your best interests in mind.

daytripper23 said:
Ontology? That doesn't address the question as I meant it.

Do we need an authority to act? That's the only answer to the ontological question.


No comprende, can you elaborate?


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Why should I behave morally? [Re: MyceliumRunning]
    #10673322 -

Quote:
The Sumerians depicted exactly how the planets look...


Wrong forum unless you can produce an ancient stone tablet showing the rings around Saturn (or Neptune or Uranus or Jupiter).


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Re: Why should I behave morally? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10673337 -

Yeah, I'd also like to see some stone tablets showing what the Sumerians knew about our galaxy.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: Why should I behave morally? [Re: zouden]
    #10673363 -

Maybe he meant that the ancient Sumerians knew what the planets looked like with the unaided human eye from the surface of the earth. You know - tiny dots of white or orange in the night sky


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Re: Why should I behave morally? [Re: deCypher]
    #10673563 -

deCypher said:

Quote:
Chronic777 said:

The enlightened mind has no interest in anything at all, it seeks to gain nothing, achieve nothing, it doesnt even see getting an advantage out of something

This can sound horrible, but goals are still reached, things still get done


This sounds completely contradictory, can you explain how you can still achieve goals and get things done if the enlightened mind has no goals or desire to achieve anything?


Your not turning away from things so nothing gets done, your recognizing that place in yourself which is beyond 'doing', you come to see that You Are That place Beyond doing or undoing, yet in that place everything gets done in your presence

Its not that desire is all gone, you still desire, but you know you are not the desire, your more spacious & unattached to the play of objects, you see that ultimately you gain nothing, but most importantly that you never lose anything, that you are the Infinite Being which has no end or beggining, no boundaries

Its extremely paradoxical you can only experience it not understand it intellectually, or you can only experience then understand it intellectually

:peace:


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Re: Why should I behave morally? [Re: Chronic7]
    #10673970 -

Conscience, is different from Consciousness.

The ancient Sumerians are the reason we know of astronomy today. They depicted 12 planets in our solar system, all with names that we continued to use to this day.

The Sumerians counted the planets from the outside of the galaxy inward. We weren't considered the 3 rock from the sun, we were the 7th planet from the outside. However, with them calling us the 7th planet from the outside in, that means they were starting with Pluto, on top of them already knowing about Pluto, they also knew correctly that Neptune and Uranus weren't GASEOUS planet like we believed, they depicted them as water planets. Sure enough in 1980 when our satellite finally went out there, we found out that the Sumerians were exactly correct.

"The Granting of the Plow" which is a famous Sumerian cylinder seal (kinda like a stamp that you roll out like a wheel). On this cylinder seal, they have engraved, the entire solar system as they depicted in their tablets. with 12 celestial bodies(sun and Pluto aren't planets). I have a link to an image.
Toward the left, between the two gods, you can easily see the sun. Notice that all the planets are in their CORRECT order around the sun, and in their correct position away from the sun, as well as in their RELATIVE size compared to each other. All this happened 5000 years ago, but we just found out about Neptune being a water planet in the 1980's?

You that aren't believing, wont change your mind from a tablet. Because you are still accepting the physical reality that is in front of you right now. I understand this, I was once in that position, until I did my OWN research, combined with others. It all comes to the same point, the same point. How can the oldest known civilization come up with "myths"?

People everyday live off of what the "new testament" says. Why is the very first bible not worshiped? Why is only the newest version what people read? Because "they" know that you would figure out the truth if they admitted to the Sumerians being right. Notice that every new bible that gets made, they change wording in it, EVERY time. I've researched these changes, comparing to the oldest bible i can find which is a 1600 bible. What I found out, was that almost all of the changes to the "new testament" were changes that with the wording could induce a greater "fear" in the religion. That is why "they" say the Sumerians stories were myth. But our stories aren't myth, because they were an "ancient" civilization. They even say that these cylinder seals weren't "carved" they were cut, with lasers, it is the only way they could have been made.

Open your eyes before you die, otherwise you will just reincarnate on this earth, and be stuck in the next cycle. I hope you all free your mind, so when you die you can free your soul.

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Re: Why should I behave morally? [Re: deCypher]
    #10674005 -

deCypher said:
zen buddy said:
...it doesn't matter what society believes is moral or immoral, your conscience knows and that is what you should follow.


It's an interesting question where this conscience comes from.  Is it genetic?  Does it come from your parents or society?  I suspect a combination of these factors so I don't think it's necessarily wise to trust your conscience if it's been influenced by external factors that might not have your best interests in mind.




Well you obviously have no idea what a conscience is. Do you believe in a soul or collective unconscious?

Your conscience is like your own internal compass. As long as you are sure that you are not near any 'solid steel or metal objects' that could influence how your compass works you can be sure that it is giving you a true reading, affected only by the natural 'way things are' and unaffected by the influence of others. Your conscience is your own personal connection to the divine, God or whatever you want to call it.

According to what you are saying here we can assume that you believe that there is nothing to who you are except for genetic code and your parents and society's bullshit programming. Are you just a robot incapable of making up your own mind?

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Re: Why should I behave morally? [Re: MyceliumRunning]
    #10674020 -

Quote:
The ancient Sumerians are the reason we know of astronomy today. They depicted 12 planets in our solar system, all with names that we continued to use to this day.
The Sumerians counted the planets from the outside of the galaxy inward. We weren't considered the 3 rock from the sun, we were the 7th planet from the outside. However, with them calling us the 7th planet from the outside in, that means they were starting with Pluto, on top of them already knowing about Pluto, they also knew correctly that Neptune and Uranus weren't GASEOUS planet like we believed, they depicted them as water planets. Sure enough in 1980 when our satellite finally went out there, we found out that the Sumerians were exactly correct.


Wow, what a fantastic paragraph. Where to begin? Firstly, if they counted 12 planets, then they're doing something wrong. There aren't nearly that many, even if you count Pluto. Where were the extra planets? Presumably closer to the sun than us, if we're 7th from the outside of the solar system (or "galaxy" according to you - hint: there's a big difference).
Secondly, no, Neptune and Uranus aren't water planets. They contain a lot more ice than the other gas giants, but that's a far cry from them being "water planets". In any case, no "satellite" visited that region of space in 1980. Perhaps you're thinking of Voyager 2. That was years later. It didn't prove the Sumerians right about anything.

Any more interesting facts you'd like to make up about the Sumerians?


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: Why should I behave morally? [Re: deCypher]
    #10674981 -

Spinoza claimed that substance is God. What did he mean by that?

My opinion is that while a conscience may be built on philosophical grounds, it is not up to the philosopher to substantiate the matter for this construction. Moral claims that appeal to the material of a conscience (and even more absurdly, immoral claims) are ultimately weak.

That is further their basic nature, as they are weak in the face of authority. If the question that inspires a particular conscience does not come from within, behavior is determined, dominated from without. While there may be numerous facts that jointly inspire your behavior, any one fact of reality in itself can only demand servile form of reason.

Whether the fact exists or not does not seem to matter, because if it did, it would have nothing to do with conscience.

And don't think an immoral truth is any less absurd, as it also contradicts the motivations of the preceding question. Its like striking up a relative discussion about masturbation. To which, you can only respond "huh?" - Exactly.

So lets say that philosophers are sexy creatures. The difference between Nietzsche and Ayn Rand for instance, would be that the former considers the motivations of the question, while the second absurdly perpetuates a masturbatory ethic under a social guise.

That premise is a consideration of otherness - whether a person is a predator or an altruist, there seems to be just as much a necessary seperation as there may be a nostalgia for unity. That is properly, a question one asks oneself. Outwardly, it is the sense of wonder that we really couldn't hope be to determined. A sense of otherness is the furthest you may break down such an intimate concern, so we can't hope that the question be singly answered - because then, why was it asked in the first place?

Quote:
c.1225, from O.Fr. conscience, from L. conscientia "knowledge within oneself, a moral sense," prp. of conscire "be mutually aware," from com- "with" + scire "to know." Probably a loan-translation of Gk. syneidesis. Sometimes nativized in O.E./M.E. as inwit. Rus. also uses a loan-translation, so-vest, "conscience," lit. "with-knowledge." Conscientious objector first recorded 1916.



--------------------
Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
  The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
  The frumious Bandersnatch!

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Re: Why should I behave morally? [Re: zen buddy]
    #10675074 -

zen buddy said:
Well you obviously have no idea what a conscience is. Do you believe in a soul or collective unconscious?

Your conscience is like your own internal compass. As long as you are sure that you are not near any 'solid steel or metal objects' that could influence how your compass works you can be sure that it is giving you a true reading, affected only by the natural 'way things are' and unaffected by the influence of others. Your conscience is your own personal connection to the divine, God or whatever you want to call it.

According to what you are saying here we can assume that you believe that there is nothing to who you are except for genetic code and your parents and society's bullshit programming. Are you just a robot incapable of making up your own mind?


I do not believe in a soul, and it seems like you are taking the accuracy of your conscience on faith alone.  How you can be so sure that your beliefs about right and wrong have not been influenced by external forces?


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Why should I behave morally? [Re: zen buddy]
    #10675134 -

Your conscience is like your own internal compass. As long as you are sure that you are not near any 'solid steel or metal objects' that could influence how your compass works you can be sure that it is giving you a true reading, affected only by the natural 'way things are' and unaffected by the influence of others. Your conscience is your own personal connection to the divine, God or whatever you want to call it.

Would it hurt to simply refer to oneself and only oneself when making such broad claims? I am certain that you have no idea what it is like to be me, and I you. If this is what you believe to be a conscience and this is what it is like for you then that is fine, but I don't get anything from this but metaphoric dribble. My patience has run quite thin for having others explain to me what this experience is like for me and not for themselves. People seem to be most passionate about ideas when they have a lot of personal experience to base it around, yet they feel so very compelled to tell everyone else that this is how it must be.

I cannot define from my mind what I think a conscience is, if it is there I didn't make it and it is in no sense true to my self. Outside forces have acted upon and shaped me from the time I came into existence, I feel a strong degree of certainty that this conscience you think I have is just a reflection of the environment around me, productive and positive ideas that have been present in my experience from birth and thus have rooted themselves deeply into my subconcious. I do reach inwards and confer with these ideas and values (with my conscience as you would say), but I try to make the best decisions for the situation at hand with the information that is present and think of how others would deem my actions as an after thought. Every situation is different and should be treated as such.

...you can be sure that it is giving you a true reading, affected only by the natural 'way things are' and unaffected by the influence of others.

The way things are is affected by the influence of others.


--------------------
Let's get the fuck out of here.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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