Home | Community | Message Board
You are not signed in.
Sign In New Account
Forum Index Search Posts Trusted Vendors Highlights Galleries FAQ User List Chat Store Random Growery


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom

Jump to first unread post Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3 |  [ show all ]
Re: Killing and morality [Re: Zanwolf]
    #12902408 -

Morality is about consensus
Zanwolf said:
People are killers by nature. What separates us from the animals, however, is the desire to destroy or kill/ murder for our own pleasure and sense of power.

The powers that be, the elites, the controllers, make wars because it brings in profit. Profit is the greatest way to control a civilisation. Using debt etc etc holds people into this system, but with the belief that they are safe, cared for, nurtured and free from the brutal reality that other countries inflict on their people if a 'crime' is committed.

It is true, due to the media, that Western society's 'attacks' on other countries are regarded as 'Doing the right thing' because the media manipulates us with propaganda and what not. The same happens in other countries such as Russia, they use propaganda to attack neighboring countries, while hiding their real intent.

Countries will always do war and use the media to manipulate the majority of the people to believe that the war is 'good' for the safety of 'our' people.
However, as we have seen, most countries do not support the War on Terror (notice the use of the word terror, not terrorism) yet the British and American governments still keep sending their troops over there to fight for the 'safety of our societies' when in actual fact they just want to dominate and control that country for more power and profit.

They will use war to do it and put profit above human lifes, why? Well that's easy, people die everyday, people are born everyday, so as long as this cycle continues, then profit and control can be had. Meaning the new generation of kids will be easily controlled when it comes to having 3 jobs just to earn £800 a month which will only pay for bills. Profit will constantly expand so long as the cycle of human life continues.

Free will was never alive, we have all been lead to believe we all poses it, lies.

EVERYTHING in this world from a fish to an electric power station can be connected. We, as animal and human, work in circles, NEVER straight lines, everything is connected, just as everything is recycled and reused. We are lead to believe we are on a straight line though. DO NOT believe it and give in to the powers.

"Think for yourselves, question authority" - Maynard James Keenan




You cant tell me that this is a result of a social construct rather than a biological imperative, as a matter of fact we wouldn't even have social constructs if the desire for control was not a biological imperative which, incidentally, is found throughout nature, not just in man. Morality is all about consensus, and ultimately arbitrary by nature. Were I to follow your advice, I would be submitting not to the powers that be but to YOUR power, and if enough people did this you would have a society on your hands, built around your ideals, but ultimately restricted by its adherence to a moral code.


--------------------
:eatingout:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Killing and morality [Re: NortonStPhallus]
    #12905941 -

It is biological that we strive for control, but when you put other people's lives in the way with disregard to the intellectual construct of the human mind, then it is selfish, and quite frankly, silly.

I wasn't trying to state my views, I was basically stating something which is factual in essence.

You just need to open your eyes a little more to see how everything is connected and realise what is going on.
You already have given into the powers that be, not me, and I do not intend people to follow me. Everyone should think for themselves and do what they feel is best.

Countries could quite simply get a long and be harmonious with one another, but they are not because at the core of government is the need for power, which is brought upon by profit, and profit controls people which the leader of that country will use at his advantage to not seem weak.
Therefore wars WILL happen because the president/ prime minister will stay strong in that countries' public view.
There are plenty of ways which the human race can get along fine within their political construct, of course people will branch off and rebel etc so the peace would need to be kept.
That is probably what the NWO is trying to do.

Everything is connected, from psychology to politics and those that know this use it. It's simple and you can see it everywhere if you just open your eyes and mind and stop following everyone else's views. Not saying that you do, but speaking openly to everyone here, not just directed towards yourself.


--------------------
"In the land of the blind, the man with one eye is key"

This is a force of nature, just like lightning, the righteous face it every day and pass it by, but those with evil in their hearts fear it, that is why there is no need to fear it. Just leave them to face death and they will perish.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Killing and morality [Re: Zanwolf]
    #12906071 -

How can I think for myself if everything is connected? My opinions and values would inevitably be influenced by the people around me. "everyone should think for themselves" how can you use the word should and not be making a moral judgement, implying there is a right way and a wrong way to behave, what about when people think for themselves and decide that they want to control people?


--------------------
:eatingout:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Killing and morality [Re: NortonStPhallus]
    #12907786 -

I never said anything about morality, and I am not the sort of person to say who is good and who is evil, everyone makes choices, I have my own views on what is good and what is bad, as do you, some we would not agree on, some we would, but that is what makes us human.
What I said about putting profit before human lives was because of the fact that it is silly, putting something so materialistic before something with consciousness. Absurd (I know, people do it all the time, even when money isn't concerned).

I don't think you fully understanding the depth at what I am saying, you have narrowed it down so much that you don't seem to be able to see my words clearly in an open minded fashion.


--------------------
"In the land of the blind, the man with one eye is key"

This is a force of nature, just like lightning, the righteous face it every day and pass it by, but those with evil in their hearts fear it, that is why there is no need to fear it. Just leave them to face death and they will perish.

Edited by Zanwolf (07/16/10 03:11 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Killing and morality [Re: Zanwolf]
    #12907982 -

I don't think you fully understanding the depth at what I am saying, you have narrowed it down so much that you don't seem to be able to see my words clearly in an open minded fashion.

This is the standard disclaimer for many folk here when someone disagrees with their pov.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Killing and morality [Re: Icelander]
    #12908066 -

It's true though, and I don't mind the fact that s/he is disagreeing, but to me it seems as though he, or she, doesn't understand what I am trying to get across.

People will always disagree with someone else's pov, and I have no problem with that fact.


--------------------
"In the land of the blind, the man with one eye is key"

This is a force of nature, just like lightning, the righteous face it every day and pass it by, but those with evil in their hearts fear it, that is why there is no need to fear it. Just leave them to face death and they will perish.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Killing and morality [Re: Zanwolf]
    #12908229 -

whatever

Countries could quite simply get a long and be harmonious with one another, but they are not because at the core of government is the need for power, which is brought upon by profit, and profit controls people which the leader of that country will use at his advantage to not seem weak.

Do you really believe this? People by their nature only get along when they perceive advantage in doing so. Govt's are not some separate monster doing things to us. Govt is the polished mirror that reflects our true face.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Killing and morality [Re: Icelander]
    #12908300 -

Quote:
Govt is the polished mirror that reflects our true face.


Diffracting telescope is the answer.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Killing and morality [Re: Icelander]
    #12908367 -

Icelander said:
whatever

Countries could quite simply get a long and be harmonious with one another, but they are not because at the core of government is the need for power, which is brought upon by profit, and profit controls people which the leader of that country will use at his advantage to not seem weak.

Do you really believe this? People by their nature only get along when they perceive advantage in doing so. Govt's are not some separate monster doing things to us. Govt is the polished mirror that reflects our true face.



Hmm...by nature, really, you believe that? Then tell me why, by nature, hunter-gathering tribes do what is best for their community, not for themselves?
In our selfish western societies, by nature, we do what is best for ourselves, because that is the way in which we have grown up and perceived other human beings acting in that way. Great example to live your life by, becoming another selfish being, I mean, we do need more selfish people in this world, right?


--------------------
"In the land of the blind, the man with one eye is key"

This is a force of nature, just like lightning, the righteous face it every day and pass it by, but those with evil in their hearts fear it, that is why there is no need to fear it. Just leave them to face death and they will perish.

Edited by Zanwolf (07/16/10 05:37 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Killing and morality [Re: Zanwolf]
    #12908460 -

Yes I really believe that and have read a lot on early cultures of hunter gatherers. What is good for them is good for their community. They see themselves all as one. Small groups can do this but large cultures have never pulled this one off.

The problem with modern culture is not that we want what is good for ourselves, it's that we really don't know what is good for us. What is good for us really benefits everyone if you look at it in the long run. Which hardly anyone does. That's one reason why the elderly are so often filled with regret.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Killing and morality [Re: Icelander]
    #12908569 -

What are you thoughts on why people in today's societies think that way though? What has changed us so much over the course of human evolution that we become more and more self-orientated.

For instance, the need to be successful, you go about it by being quite ruthless, not caring about anyone else who is after that same position or 'thing', holding in high demand YOUR need to get to the top, not anyone else's.
Talking from a business perspective it doesn't benefit those who wanted to go after the same position, it just benefits the company.

It interests me where the pivotal point within us humans stop caring for our communities as a whole and started going after the success game. Where was the turning point in history. It seems as though it just happened.

I agree with you on numbers though, the larger a place, the less care people have of those who they've never met. How many people in today's societies would risk their life for a complete stranger if they knew it would save them, probably about 1 in 10 people I guess.

But certain elements within our society influence our thinking, a thought we thought was our own, was or could have been planted their by 'alien' elements.

What are your thoughts?


--------------------
"In the land of the blind, the man with one eye is key"

This is a force of nature, just like lightning, the righteous face it every day and pass it by, but those with evil in their hearts fear it, that is why there is no need to fear it. Just leave them to face death and they will perish.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Killing and morality [Re: Zanwolf]
    #12908701 -

Quote:
What has changed us so much over the course of human evolution that we become more and more self-orientated.



What critter on this planet is NOT self-oriented?


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Killing and morality [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #12908855 -

Wolves, ants, bees, just to name a few.

EDIT:
I didn't mean self-orientated in the sense of being orientated by being. I meant it in a selfish context.


--------------------
"In the land of the blind, the man with one eye is key"

This is a force of nature, just like lightning, the righteous face it every day and pass it by, but those with evil in their hearts fear it, that is why there is no need to fear it. Just leave them to face death and they will perish.

Edited by Zanwolf (07/16/10 07:08 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Killing and morality [Re: Zanwolf]
    #12910772 -

I focused on certain points of your argument because they were the ones I had an objection with, not because I didnt understand your overarching idea.


--------------------
:eatingout:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Killing and morality [Re: NortonStPhallus]
    #12910783 -

"I never said anything about morality" you said should, how can you say the word should without implying that there is a right way and a wrong way = morality.


--------------------
:eatingout:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Killing and morality [Re: NortonStPhallus]
    #12910808 -

NortonStPhallus said:
"I never said anything about morality" you said should, how can you say the word should without implying that there is a right way and a wrong way = morality.


Read it again, I did not say should. I quoted Maynard from Tool, here it is again for you. "Think for yourselves, question authority"


--------------------
"In the land of the blind, the man with one eye is key"

This is a force of nature, just like lightning, the righteous face it every day and pass it by, but those with evil in their hearts fear it, that is why there is no need to fear it. Just leave them to face death and they will perish.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Killing and morality [Re: Zanwolf]
    #12911203 -

You said, "everyone should think for themselves and question authority" This statement implies that to think for yourself/question authority is the good thing to do, please explain to me how that has nothing to do with morality.


--------------------
:eatingout:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Killing and morality [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #12911211 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
What has changed us so much over the course of human evolution that we become more and more self-orientated.



What critter on this planet is NOT self-oriented?


The extinct ones.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Killing and morality [Re: Zanwolf] * 1
    #12911233 -

Zanwolf said:
NortonStPhallus said:
"I never said anything about morality" you said should, how can you say the word should without implying that there is a right way and a wrong way = morality.


Read it again, I did not say should. I quoted Maynard from Tool, here it is again for you. "Think for yourselves, question authority"



On a side note, dont you see the irony in quoting someone that is telling you to think for yourself and question authority?


--------------------
:eatingout:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Killing and morality [Re: NortonStPhallus]
    #12911456 -

Quote:
On a side note, dont you see the irony in quoting someone that is telling you to think for yourself and question authority?



--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3 |  [ show all ]

Shop: Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Question for moral objectivists
( 1 2 all )		 silversoul7 4,123 31 06/14/03 10:42 AM
by NewToTrippin
* Does Morality hinder Evolution?
( 1 2 all )		 deff 4,495 33 08/13/04 01:43 PM
by Swami
* Do Basic Human Morals Exist
( 1 2 all )		 mrfreedom 5,453 24 05/28/02 07:55 AM
by Sclorch
* Are morals subjective?
( 1 2 all )		 Anonymous 6,221 35 04/24/03 05:58 AM
by MarkostheGnostic
* Death Morals
( 1 2 3 all )		 IAmTheWalrus212 3,388 46 01/10/05 11:35 AM
by redgreenvines
* A debate on the subject of the morality of drug use. neuro 1,931 7 02/21/03 05:10 AM
by Sclorch
* Moral Absolutes
( 1 2 all )		 Azmodeus 2,276 21 05/16/03 11:49 AM
by Azmodeus
* can you prove the existence of absolute, objective morality?
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 all )		 Anonymous 22,475 157 12/21/04 06:31 AM
by deafpanda

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
2,710 topic views. 0 members, 0 guests and 9 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2026 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.037 seconds spending 0.008 seconds on 17 queries.