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OfflineCleverName
the cloudsshould know meby now...

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 1,121
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Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
are there morals?
    #893477 - 09/19/02 01:40 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

ok, right off the bat im ging to say this, i believe we all are one consiousness manifested in different forms, and in different realities, like many waves go up and down, but they are still the ocean (its hard to say what i mean, most of you understand i think) so, if thats the case dualties are only illusions, right and wrong all depends on your position...

this stuff have been disscused here before and may even be obvious to you guys here, but im new at this forum, so bear with me.. :wink:

~love all, 1ne love~ 


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if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose


Edited by CleverName (09/19/02 01:44 PM)


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OfflineTheShroomHermit
Divine Hermit of the Everything
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Re: are there morals? [Re: CleverName]
    #893488 - 09/19/02 01:47 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

YES




























I think what I understand what your getting at... I don't think there is a good or bad/evil duality in existence, but I have my own reasons for that... just human nature... and perspectives.



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Invisiblebuttonion
Calmly Watching

Registered: 04/04/02
Posts: 303
Loc: Kansas
Re: are there morals? [Re: CleverName]
    #893631 - 09/19/02 03:18 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Yu ah on yo way yung grass-hoppa...

Morality is relative in the sense (we'll say "abstract sense") that there can be no right in the absence of wrong. They are both utterly dependent on each other, like you said peaks and valleys of a wave, backgrounds and foregrounds, and, bingo, duality is illusion.

Culturally speaking, however ("cultural sense"), human morality does not appear to be entirley relative. While it seems that everyone has there own idea of right and wrong, there are some moral universals- Incest, patricide, and a host of other behaviors regarded as reprehensible can be found across cultures and history.

And so,

right and wrong depends on your position

is true in that right only makes sense relative to wrong, but we can understand some specific cultural morals without a need to relate them to other cultures- they exist (egghh.. existence) in more of an absolute sense.



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Concepts which have been proved to be useful in ordering things easily acquire such an authority over us that we forget their human origins and accept them as invariable.- Albert Einstein


Edited by buttonion (09/19/02 03:19 PM)


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OfflineChubbSubb
Zen Lunatic

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 612
Loc: Here.
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: are there morals? [Re: CleverName]
    #893681 - 09/19/02 03:32 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Welcome! I get what you are expressing in your post. This forum is great. :smirk:
Peace to all, Trev :grin:


--------------------
Those who know do not speak.
Those who speak do not know.


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InvisibleIn(di)go
People of the sun.
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Registered: 10/30/00
Posts: 8,152
Loc: Cologne, Germany
Re: are there morals? [Re: CleverName]
    #893695 - 09/19/02 03:38 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

welcome, clevername! hava a nice stay  :laugh:

and i know exactly where you are coming from... to quote bill hicks right here...

"today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slower vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively.. there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream and we are the imagination of ourselves... here's tome with the wather"


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OfflineAdamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
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Registered: 11/24/01
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Re: are there morals? [Re: CleverName]
    #893896 - 09/19/02 05:13 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

if thats the case dualties are only illusions, right and wrong all depends on your position

I once talked to a snake named Lucy who told me the same thing.......
kinda changes your perception a bit huh?


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:


Edited by Adamist (09/19/02 05:13 PM)


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OfflineGrav
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Registered: 02/06/02
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Re: are there morals? [Re: In(di)go]
    #893917 - 09/19/02 05:26 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Its not a war on drugs
its a war on personal freedom
thank you.
  :wink:


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Anonymous

Re: are there morals? [Re: buttonion]
    #894682 - 09/19/02 11:40 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Ethical relativism is fraught with error. I wish I had time to elaborate.

Cheers,


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InvisibleRevelation

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Registered: 08/04/01
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Re: are there morals? [Re: CleverName]
    #894761 - 09/20/02 12:52 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

If all our ideas about morality are different, then it must be a subjective thing. So they don't exist in an objective sense, but they do exist.


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Anonymous

Re: are there morals? [Re: ]
    #895063 - 09/20/02 07:12 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Without an objective (or common) standard of morality, a civilization will descend into anarchy (I mean this in the negative sense - not self-government). When a society accepts moral relativism, their civilization is doomed to perish.


Edited by Anonymous (09/20/02 07:13 AM)


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
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Re: are there morals? [Re: CleverName]
    #895341 - 09/20/02 09:48 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

There IS such a thing as objective morality. Given the nature of man, it cannot be otherwise. The problem is that very few people take the time to discover that morality, they merely accept whatever others around them claim is "moral".

Note that in this context I use "moral" in the sense of "good" and "right", and "correct", not in the sense of "what is accepted" or "what is customary".

For example, in Victorian England, it was considered "immoral" for a woman to expose her ankles in public. That is not a question of "morality" at all -- it is a matter of custom. Yet ALL societies proscribe theft and murder, because both behaviors are OBJECTIVELY immoral, regardless of what other customs and traditions the society may embrace.

pinky



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Anonymous

Re: are there morals? [Re: ]
    #895432 - 09/20/02 10:22 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Yes Evolving. The only ones that do not know this are those that do not want to know it.

Post more often if you can. You are missed by some in this forum.

Cheers,


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: are there morals? [Re: CleverName]
    #895873 - 09/20/02 02:24 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

i believe we all are one consiousness manifested in different forms

If you truly believed this, it would be impossible to ever hurt another. Is this not true? Where did you get this idea and how do you live it?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineCleverName
the cloudsshould know meby now...

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 1,121
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Re: are there morals? [Re: Swami]
    #895922 - 09/20/02 03:02 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

"it would be impossible to ever hurt another"
each ego has its own desire, that may cross another desire, people hurt themselves all the time...

"consiousness manifested in different forms"
everything settles in layers, everything.

"Where did you get this idea "
sitting next to a stream, watching the life around me and thikning, "i was once this or that, and it was once me, the same atoms that make up any particular thing make up me also, ive been around since the first cause, i am the first cause and always will be, and so is everything else..." and so on

"how do you live it?"
how do YOU live it, or him or her...
i accept


--------------------
if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose


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OfflineCleverName
the cloudsshould know meby now...

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 1,121
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Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
Re: are there morals? [Re: CleverName]
    #895928 - 09/20/02 03:09 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

i believe the aspects of time and space mere illusions,
there is no point A or point B, only point.


--------------------
if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose


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InvisibleIn(di)go
People of the sun.
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Registered: 10/30/00
Posts: 8,152
Loc: Cologne, Germany
Re: are there morals? [Re: Swami]
    #895978 - 09/20/02 03:42 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

clevername... i like your style!  :laugh:

Quote:

If you truly believed this, it would be impossible to ever hurt another. Is this not true? Where did you get this idea and how do you live it?



actually it is impossible... obviously there is a difference between physical and emotional (spiritual) pain... if you talk about physical pain the point is that you are not your body, so the pain is not inflicted to you, but to the vehicle you use to move around and accomplish tasks int his reality... and if you are talking about emotional pain, then i suggest you to realize that that kinda pain is never inflicted by someone else or by the situation, it is inflicted by yourself... you choose how you feel in certain situations, you choose how to react to certain things... you either feel hurt, or you realize that the other person is merely yourself acting in a different manner and understand the course of action... actually once you realize that we are all one you start controling your thoughts, words and deeds in order to not hurt anyone unless it is necesary...


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Offlinebeatlesrock
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Registered: 11/23/01
Posts: 35
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Re: are there morals? [Re: CleverName]
    #895988 - 09/20/02 03:49 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

there are no such things as universal morals. everything is subjective.

its funny that you say some morals are universal because every culture exibits some of them (incest, patricide, etc). well obviously they will! but its a little arrogant to think that everything in the universe revolves around man. man is a viewpoint. from mans viewpoint incest is wrong. not from the trees, the oceans, the animals, and the rest of the universe


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: are there morals? [Re: beatlesrock]
    #896657 - 09/21/02 02:43 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Incest was accepted for a long time in some cultures; especially among royalty to keep the family lineage pure.

It was only found to be amoral when there were genetic/medical complications from inbreeding - most notably hempophilia.

From the Christain point of view, it is hard to see where incest is immoral as they believe that all humans sprang from Adam and Eve, therefore...


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Registered: 07/13/99
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Re: are there morals? [Re: Swami]
    #896696 - 09/21/02 03:11 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Swami: ...hempophilia...

What?! Yoos gotta problem with "the (morbid) love of hemp"?



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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineAlbino_Jesus
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Re: are there morals? [Re: CleverName]
    #896703 - 09/21/02 03:16 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

morals don't exist, but ethics do :smile:


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The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader



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