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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Deep Entheogenic Adventurer Discovers...
    #1839376 - 08/22/03 02:30 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Excerpt from this trip report on Erowid.

We as humans can answer many things. We, with our science and technology, can do very well with 'What' and 'How' and in some senses we can answer the 'Why' questions. We can learn to unravel the most profound mysteries of nature, like DNA and the formation of the cosmos. We can build tools like computers that are insanely complex. I believe that we can even travel to distant stars and spread our organic life across the galaxy. But we can never answer the most fundamental questions of all: 'Why are we here?' 'Why is there life on Earth?' 'WHY?'

Many people turn to religion to answer this question and they get an answer. Personally I don't believe in god(s) or creation. I find no solace in the make-believe answers that other human beings in the past or present have dreamt up to answer this question for other people. Of course, I don't think that everything about religion is bad or wrong. Certainly I believe in morality and social structure. What I learned from La Purga is that we as a species can put all of our most brilliant tools to work to ask the Universe 'why are we here?', but we will only get silence as a response.


I point this out as this guy travelled deeper than most and did NOT discover God at the end of the universe; merely more refined questions.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleMystical_Craven
mentally illpsychonaught

Registered: 06/16/02
Posts: 439
Loc: Earth
Re: Deep Entheogenic Adventurer Discovers... [Re: Swami]
    #1839447 - 08/22/03 03:05 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I see the whole 'why are we here' question in kinda the same way as that whole 'who says life is fair' thing. Meaning that (generally speaking) a lot of people start out with the assumption that life should be fair or equal or whatever...but this is rarely ever the case. So who's to say it's not the same way with why we're here? Who says we even need a reason to exist in the first place? I certainly don't think we do. I mean - let's just say that there is some sort of ultimate goal 'we' are all trying to accomplish (whether that be heaven, or nirvana, or whatever) what happens when every single entitiy in existance reaches that point? Does everything stop happening? Does everything simply cease to exist from that point on? Is there a reset button that someone has to push to start the entire cycle over again? Do we just stay where we're at indefinately, and nothing ever ever ever happens again? I'm sorry, but I'm a firm believer in that old 'as above, so below' thing (whatever it's technically labled as) and unless I'm completely overlooking something, I don't see a damn bit off anything that suddenly reaches some sort of ultimate goal and stops doing whatever it is that it does. Everything in life seems to run on some sort of continuous cycle: water pours down out of the clouds, and then evaporates right back up again...plants sprout from seeds, mature, produce seeds of their own, eventually die, and their seeds go on to sprout new plants...this is the way of life, it's just how these sorts of things work. So why then would anyone believe that when we zoom out to some rediculously distant point of view there's suddenly going to be something that contradicts everything that occured before it? My guess is that there are just too many people out there that don't like the idea of 'what you see is what you get', so they try to turn their world into something it's not. I'm sorry, but I don't understand that philosophy at all. What is so difficult about believing that this existance we are all a part of is infinately complex? And why would you ever even want it all to end anyways? If something continues to go on and on indefinately what more could you ever possibly want?

I...just...don't...get..it...  :oogle: 


--------------------


"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go..." T.S. Eliot


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Offlinemikey_
SURFING ON SINEWAVES
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Re: Deep Entheogenic Adventurer Discovers... [Re: Mystical_Craven]
    #1839452 - 08/22/03 03:09 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Everything in life seems to run on some sort of continuous cycle: water pours down out of the clouds, and then evaporates right back up again...plants sprout from seeds, mature, produce seeds of their own, eventually die, and their seeds go on to sprout new plants...this is the way of life, it's just how these sorts of things work.




maybe this is where re-incarnation kicks-in.


--------------------
The poison is the dose - Paracelsus
Let your food be medicine and your medicine be food - Hippocrates


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OfflineMindTrap
Disembodiedvoice
Registered: 08/02/02
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Re: Deep Entheogenic Adventurer Discovers... [Re: mikey_]
    #1839476 - 08/22/03 03:24 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

If you're saying that an ayahuasca experience is equivelant to travelling deeper than most then I would say he was looking in the wrong place for God. It is presumptuous to assume that these drug expereinces are truly spiritual in nature.

And it is definately presumptuous for the man to call these make-believe answers.

I doubt he was ever truly open-minded enough to have a spiritual experience.

It's all about faith. I hate that word and what it implies but I trully believe that if you honestly look for it you will find your evidential proof. Just don't expect it to be objective enough to share with others. It's a personal experience.


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InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/08/98
Posts: 2,261
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Re: Deep Entheogenic Adventurer Discovers... [Re: Swami]
    #1839520 - 08/22/03 04:03 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Anecdotal.

Quote:

Excerpt from this trip report on Erowid.

We as humans can answer many things. We, with our science and technology, can do very well with 'What' and 'How' and in some senses we can answer the 'Why' questions. We can learn to unravel the most profound mysteries of nature, like DNA and the formation of the cosmos. We can build tools like computers that are insanely complex. I believe that we can even travel to distant stars and spread our organic life across the galaxy. But we can never answer the most fundamental questions of all: 'Why are we here?' 'Why is there life on Earth?' 'WHY?'

Many people turn to religion to answer this question and they get an answer. Personally I don't believe in god(s) or creation. I find no solace in the make-believe answers that other human beings in the past or present have dreamt up to answer this question for other people. Of course, I don't think that everything about religion is bad or wrong. Certainly I believe in morality and social structure. What I learned from La Purga is that we as a species can put all of our most brilliant tools to work to ask the Universe 'why are we here?', but we will only get silence as a response.

I point this out as this guy travelled deeper than most and did NOT discover God at the end of the universe; merely more refined questions.





--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
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Re: Deep Entheogenic Adventurer Discovers... [Re: Jellric]
    #1839539 - 08/22/03 04:14 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Anecdotal.

And? All info on the effects of psychedelics (except for somatic responses) is anecdotal. As it is the inner landscape, it will ALWAYS be a subjective experience.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineEarth_Droid
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Re: Deep Entheogenic Adventurer Discovers... [Re: Swami]
    #1839573 - 08/22/03 04:41 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

No two trips are the same. Some people find god, while other people find aliens ready to give an anal probe.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
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Re: Deep Entheogenic Adventurer Discovers... [Re: Earth_Droid]
    #1839579 - 08/22/03 04:49 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Whys does it ALWAYS have to be an alien with the anal probe? Why not Shakira?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Registered: 04/27/03
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Re: Deep Entheogenic Adventurer Discovers... [Re: Swami]
    #1839592 - 08/22/03 05:07 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah lets all assume that because we are talkin in the shroomery that everyones beleives are a direct result of tripping (hallucination) therefore bollocks.

It is you who is closed minded. It is when you try to quantify answers for everything. I consider all possibilities but try not to make conclusions on them just speculation.

Swami, I am skeptical, you are ignorant. Theres a big difference.


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Offlinejono
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Re: Deep Entheogenic Adventurer Discovers... [Re: Swami]
    #1839670 - 08/22/03 06:42 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Maybe he didnt find god because there was no God to find.

Dont mind me though, Im just a buddhist


--------------------
Our problem results from acting like cowboys on a limitless frontier when in truth we inhabit a living spaceship with a finely balanced life-support system." David C. Korton


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Registered: 03/12/02
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Re: Deep Entheogenic Adventurer Discovers... [Re: MindTrap]
    #1839683 - 08/22/03 07:11 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

MindTrap said:
If you're saying that an ayahuasca experience is equivelant to travelling deeper than most then I would say he was looking in the wrong place for God. It is presumptuous to assume that these drug expereinces are truly spiritual in nature.




And it is presumptous to assume that these drug experiences AREN'T truly spiritual in nature...

Quote:


And it is definately presumptuous for the man to call these make-believe answers.

I doubt he was ever truly open-minded enough to have a spiritual experience.




I doubt that you are ever truly open-minded enought to have a spiritual experience, but as I don't know you, it isn't well founded for me to have those doubts, now is it? No one can say whether or not someone else had a spiritual experience, as they are not of their spirit..

Quote:


It's all about faith. I hate that word and what it implies but I trully believe that if you honestly look for it you will find your evidential proof. Just don't expect it to be objective enough to share with others. It's a personal experience.




Wait, it's a personal experience? Then how do you know if he had a spiritual experience or not? That doesn't make sense to me.. I can't believe you would truly hate a word and what it implies, but then say that that is what it "is all about":

And, is it possible to find your evidental proof if you are dishonestly looking, or if perhaps you aren't even working but sort of stumble onto it?
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineLOBO
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Re: Deep Entheogenic Adventurer Discovers... [Re: Swami]
    #1839750 - 08/22/03 08:44 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

You are really funny swami, is that your evidence that God does not exist?
A Trip report from erowind?

The belief of a God is personal some choose to believe and some don't to each there own, but to try to argue it's existence is a total waste of time,(it is a mystery that can not be proved or disproved) unless the intention of this post is to provoke controversy.


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OfflineSpokesman
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Registered: 08/05/03
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Re: Deep Entheogenic Adventurer Discovers... [Re: LOBO]
    #1839819 - 08/22/03 09:41 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Theres no evidance that God(s) DOESENT(dont) exist but their is alot of evidance proving that he doesent exist the way people thought previously in history, so really unless he apears in the sky seen by everyone and all the people who didnt have time to make up their mind unto what religion to follow will die and burn in hell. God will just be a personal opinion. Getting that out of the way...

I used to question "Why, are we here" that question quickly turned into "why is there a here anyway". I mean it seems like everyone focuses on why did we pop up on this planet, personaly i think were just fongus on a rock that happeneded to be the right distance from the sun. But what really eats my brain is what are all these molecules doing just popping out of a void, why is there existance???


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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: Deep Entheogenic Adventurer Discovers... [Re: Swami]
    #1839827 - 08/22/03 09:48 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Deleted by admin


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Offlinechessrook
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Re: Deep Entheogenic Adventurer Discovers... [Re: Swami]
    #1839863 - 08/22/03 10:11 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I'm interested in this part...

>>>>>>Certainly I believe in morality and....<<<<<<<<

Since you stated you don't believe in God, on what basis do you support an argument in favor of morality? What is your moral standard and why should anyone, including yourself, follow it? Morality by its very definition requires a standard of right and wrong. Morality implies there IS a right and wrong. I'm not arguing in favor of a God one way or another...it just cracks me up that people want to not believe in a God (whatever ultimate form) yet still want to claim a universal standard of right and wrong. Bullshit!

Be well,

'rook


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Deep Entheogenic Adventurer Discovers... [Re: Spokesman]
    #1839874 - 08/22/03 10:17 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Spokesman writes:

I used to question "Why, are we here" that question quickly turned into "why is there a here anyway".

That is the core question cosmologists and philosophers ask, but the two questions are not identical.

The cosmologist asks it with the connotation, "By what process did existence come into existence?" Note that this question assumes facts not in evidence; i.e. that there was a time when there was no existence.

The philosopher asks it with the connotation, "For which reason does existence exist?" Note that this question also assumes facts not in evidence; i.e. that there is in fact a reason.

Both forms of the question are in fact invalid questions, hence unanswerable. The fact of the matter is that existence exists, and that is all there is to say about it.

pinky


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Offlineneutralizer
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Re: Deep Entheogenic Adventurer Discovers... [Re: chessrook]
    #1839876 - 08/22/03 10:18 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Unless you personally define morality based on how you 'feel'....though that's as subjective of a basis as any.


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There are things known, and there are things unknown, and in between are the doors - Morrison


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Deep Entheogenic Adventurer Discovers... [Re: chessrook]
    #1839885 - 08/22/03 10:23 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

chessrook writes:

Since you stated you don't believe in God, on what basis do you support an argument in favor of morality? What is your moral standard and why should anyone, including yourself, follow it? What is your moral standard and why should anyone, including yourself, follow it? Morality by its very definition requires a standard of right and wrong. Morality implies there IS a right and wrong.

Correct. But it is not necessary for morality to flow from god. Objective morality (most commonly referred to as "Natural Law") springs from the nature of humans. Whether humans were created or arose spontaneously from inanimate matter is irrelevant to the discussion of what constitutes the "rightness" and "wrongness" of human actions within a societal context.

pinky


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Deep Entheogenic Adventurer Discovers... [Re: LOBO]
    #1839923 - 08/22/03 10:38 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

You are really funny swami,
I know. When you come to town, I will give you two free tickets to the Comedy Club. My real name is Jerry S******d.

is that your evidence that God does not exist?
No, but it is my UNDISPUTABLE proof that not everyone who takes a deep journey, on what most people believe to be THE most powerful psychedelic (ayahuasca or DMT), encounters gods or aliens.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlineneutralizer
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Registered: 06/17/03
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Re: Deep Entheogenic Adventurer Discovers... [Re: Swami]
    #1840016 - 08/22/03 11:17 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

He could have been lying about it, Swami. Maybe there's not reason for him to, but couldn't he? Is it really indisputable?


--------------------
There are things known, and there are things unknown, and in between are the doors - Morrison


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