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OfflineJCoke
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Registered: 02/17/04
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Re: Entheogens [Re: SchazWat]
    #3403297 - 11/24/04 11:12 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

curt cobain's lsd letters? wtf is that?


--------------------
hello, your name is life on earth
------------------------------------

"I traveled a long way seeking God, but when I finally gave up and turned back, there He was, within me! O Lalli! Now why do you wander like a beggar? Make some effort, and He will grant you a vision of Himself in the form of bliss in your heart." -the saint of the Kashmir Shaivism tradition: Lalli.

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Entheogens [Re: SchazWat]
    #3403305 - 11/24/04 11:14 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

I'm sorry, but your statements here are full of misunderstandings, false conclusions, and faulty logic. :grin:

Quote:

SchazWat said:
I find it interesting that people today, who are supposed to be the most enlightened generation of human beings to exist, are taking up the practices of ancient people's who consumed hallucinogenic substances, who at the height of their civilizations were responsible for the sacrifices of human beings on a mass scale.




This is a generality that does not serve any useful purpose in this debate. Which civilizations are you referring to, my friend? Which hallucinogenic substances? Are you prepared to show us the link between use of hallucinogens and the sacrifice of human beings? Are you implying that what you label as an inappropriate act (sacrifice of human life) that was done by a civilization automatically and entirely denounces every other act performed by that civilization? Are agriculture and archeitecture negative and not proper solely because a civilization that farmed and built also sacrificed humans? Is every extension of our modern civilization negative and not fit to follow if the same civilization also goes to war with other humans?

Before you are going to speak with vague generalities, perhaps you will take the time to consider what you are implying with your words.

Quote:


If these cultures were so enlightened why were they wiped out and enslaved?




Your logic is deformed and ineffective if you are implying that these cultures would not have been destroyed and enslaved if they were actually Enlightened.

To illustrate in a perfectly clear manner: If the people who formed the religious ideas that you find to be true, and if these people were indeed Enlightened, why is not the entire world Enlightened by extension of their teachings? Why is India immensely over-populated and under-developed? Why are people starving in the East? If these monks and religious figures were truly Enlightened, would not their Enlightenment naturally spread through them to the rest of the world by their words and actions?

I will now take a moment to present to you a pivotal question: How do you define Enlightenment? What is Enlightenment? Do you fully grasp the concept of Enlightenment? If it is indeed a mental state that "impacts the world on a great scale", then there is obviously observable characteristics of Enlightenment that we can describe and discuss here. I expect a rather complete description of what you personally feel Enlightenment is before any discussion in this thread on Enlightenment can continue. Once again, do you fully grasp Enlightenment? Do you feel Enlightened? Or do you have a vague, mental understanding of a state never experienced by yourself, based on other's words, which ultimately leads to not knowing what the hell you are talking about? :smirk:

Now, on that same note...

For someone who has never experienced a state of mind under the influence of entheogens, how can you sit back and surmise about the necessity or validity of an entheogenic experience? How can you justify making false assumptions based on other's words without the core experience? It seems obvious that you have barely any clue as to what an entheogenic experience entails and consists of. You have a misconception that people who use psychadelics as a tool in spiritual development are acting incorrectly, that their spiritual development requires psychadelic use, and that you are personally better and more "Enlightened" by not using psychadelics yourself?

Because, if that is the case, you are of great misunderstanding and need a reality check. :wink:

Quote:

SchazWat said:
I'd agree. Happiness has sometimes led me to sadness and suffering. Have you ever been in love and had your heart broken?




"Happiness" has not led you to sadness and suffering, your ill-programmed mind has led you. You have now testified to having a mental addiction to love and a state of a relationship and to not being fully present and in one's state of being, beyond the mind. These are exactly the things that prevent one from "Enlightenment."

Quote:

SchazWat said:
Yes, but it still doesn't occur naturally as far as known to science. And I have heard the synthesis of LSD is quite complex. Not to mention the risks of getting it on yourself and burning your brain out.




Burning your brain out? The risks of getting it on yourself? Where is your understanding? Its not here. :wink:

Quote:


Methamphetamine fueled the Third Reich. Was the Third Reich good?




:lol: Your misunderstanding amuses me. :grin:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Entheogens [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3403515 - 11/24/04 12:05 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

no entheogen experiences are completely without risks.
in the least case one risks their world view being modified.
until one knows what that might mean, they should stay clear of all entheogen. when they chose one, and that seems to be what this argument is about, I hope they chose one that works safely.
What I would like to stress is that entheogen is not necessarily more or less benign if it comes directly from the plant or if it is processed or synthetic. Usually processing removes something noxious as in all cooking. It is a kind of prep. Sometimes it adds to complexity, but that is the direction of all things. Often it simplifies or makes portability easier.

synthetic brings up the idea of plastic,
this concept remains important in nature,
and plasticity of all kinds should be examined
with other aspects of nature and change.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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OfflineSchazWat
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Registered: 11/21/04
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Re: Entheogens [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3404474 - 11/24/04 03:27 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
I'm sorry, but your statements here are full of misunderstandings, false conclusions, and faulty logic. :grin:





So sayeth the Sheperd, so sayteth the flock?

Quote:


Which civilizations are you referring to, my friend?





Do I have to do the research for you? You apparently can use Google. Go do your homework and learn something.

Mayans, Aztecs, Indians (Kali Worship), Semitic peoples ( assyrians, isralites), Norse/Celtic, Romans, Greeks.... the list goes and on...

Quote:


Which hallucinogenic substances?





Mayans, Aztecs, Toltecs: Mushrooms
Norse/Celts: Amanita Muscaria, etc.
Greeks/Romans: Entheogenic potions possibly containing Ergot, human sacrifice centered around the Diana cult.
Egyptians: Opium, possible human sacrifice in some sects, unproven

Quote:


Are you prepared to show us the link between use of hallucinogens and the sacrifice of human beings?





Yes, if you are unable to find the links on Google yourself I will have to help you.


Quote:


Are you implying that what you label as an inappropriate act (sacrifice of human life) that was done by a civilization automatically and entirely denounces every other act performed by that civilization?





I would be upset if someone decided to sacrifice me or my family and than proceed to hand out raw mushrooms to the people to celebrate.

However it is fairly well known that all human cultures in some point in there history dabbled in human sacrifice.


Quote:


Before you are going to speak with vague generalities, perhaps you will take the time to consider what you are implying with your words.





Before you go with implying your words why don't you speak in vague generalities?

Quote:


Your logic is deformed and ineffective if you are implying that these cultures would not have been destroyed and enslaved if they were actually Enlightened.





Not really. If a culture were enlightened it would have divine revelation on how to avoid being destroyed.

Quote:


To illustrate in a perfectly clear manner: If the people who formed the religious ideas that you find to be true, and if these people were indeed Enlightened, why is not the entire world Enlightened by extension of their teachings?




Good question.

Quote:


I will now take a moment to present to you a pivotal question: How do you define Enlightenment? What is Enlightenment? Do you fully grasp the concept of Enlightenment?





Do you fully grasp the concept of Enlightenment?

Quote:


For someone who has never experienced a state of mind under the influence of entheogens, how can you sit back and surmise about the necessity or validity of an entheogenic experience?





I can't, rightfully so. It is forbidden in  my society.

I have tried Salvia, which is not illegal at this time, and which I would be willing to discuss if you are interested.

Quote:


How can you justify making false assumptions based on other's words without the core experience?





I don't disagree and I don't believe I committed that fallacy in any way, shape or form so far.

Quote:


Because, if that is the case, you are of great misunderstanding and need a reality check. :wink:





Is reality something only experienced while under the influence of a mind-altering substance?

Quote:


"Happiness" has not led you to sadness and suffering, your ill-programmed mind has led you.





My ill programmed mind? I won't go here, fallacy ad-hominem.


Quote:


:lol: Your misunderstanding amuses me. :grin:





Your understanding amuses me.

Edited by SchazWat (11/24/04 03:36 PM)

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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Entheogens [Re: ninjapixie]
    #3405100 - 11/24/04 05:07 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

To be truly neutral one must add the words- The end of happiness.

Yes, you can use the word ?happiness?, but I prefer the word Pleasure, as it seems more precise? Either are fine as long as the context remains the same, I suppose.
However, don?t get pleasure and inner-peace confused with each other. Pleasure is always derived from something or someone outside of you, whereas inner-peace, joy and genuine love arise from within and beyond the mind and are states of Being.

The Buddha taught that even your ?happiness? is dukkha ? a Pali word meaning ?suffering? or ?unsatisfactoriness.? It is inseparable from its opposite. This means that your happiness and unhappiness are in fact one. Only the illusion of time separates them.

The following are three examples of how our suffering and negativity stems from the dualistic nature of our time-bound minds:

-Energy _____ Zero-Infinity-Totality ______ Energy+

Inner peace comes from Totality as in Neutrality of both polarities? In other words, from no-attachment to either side of opposing ends or polarities? Free of resistance, which is in itself merely a negative form of attachment.


-Pain ______ Stillness-GenuineLove-InnerPeace ______ Pleasure+

Pain is inevitable as long as you are identified with your mind, and will constantly be subject to the constant oscillations between the duality that is inherent in the egoic-consciousness. When one is centered in Stillness, they transcend the dualistic prisons that once plagued them in their spiritual disease of mind-identification. This is the essence of an enlightened reality.

-Past _______ Present-Here-Now _______ Future+

All negativity stems from the time-bound, dualistic mind and denial of the eternal present. Unease, anxiety, tension, stress, worry ? all forms of fear ? are caused by too much future, and not enough presence. Guilt, regret, resentment, grievances, sadness, bitterness, and all forms of nonforgiveness are caused by too much past, and not enough presence.

When one forms an attachment to either end of such spectrums?They are already in motion to move to and fro, like emotional yo-yos. It is like a pendulum that swings back and forth between unjustified pain and unsustainable pleasure. Only when the pendulum become Still, can the enlightened reality be experienced that lies within the transcendental middle-way as the Buddha taught.

Have you ever been in love and had your heart broken?

Yes, I have been ?in love? and had my heart broken.

But? I learned that I was confusing love with attachment, an egoic-addictive neediness.

Let?s take a closer look at how attachment works.
Attachment exaggerates other?s good qualities and makes us crave to be with them. When we?re with them, we?re happy; when we?re separated, we?re miserable. Attachment is linked with expectations of what others should be or do.

Before we know people they are strangers, and we feel indifferent towards them. After we meet them they may become dear ones for whom we have strong emotions. Let?s look closer at how people become our friends?
Generally we?re attracted to people either because they have qualities we value or because they help us. If we observe our own thought processes, we?ll notice that we look for specific qualities in others. Some of these qualities we find attractive, others are those our parents or society value. We examine someone?s looks, education, financial situation and social status. Each of us has different qualities we look for and different standards for evaluating them.

If people have the qualities in our ?internal checklist? we value them. We think they?re good people who are worthwhile. It appears to us as if they are great people in and of themselves, unrelated to our evaluation of them. But in fact, because we have certain preconceptions about which qualities are desirable and which aren?t, we?re the ones who create the worthwhile people.
In addition, we judge people as worthwhile according to how they relate to us. If they help us, praise us, make us feel secure, listen to what we say and care for us when we?re sick or depressed, we consider them good people. This is very biased, for we judge them only in terms of how they relate to us, as if we were the most important person in the world.

Generally we think that if people help us, they?re good people; while if they harm us, they?re bad people. If people encourage us, they?re wonderful; if they encourage our competitor, they?re obnoxious. It isn?t their quality of encouragement that we value, but the fact that it?s aimed at us. Similarly, if people criticize us, they?re mistaken or inconsiderate. If they criticize someone we don?t like, they?re wise. We don?t object to their trait of criticizing, only its being aimed at us.

The process by which we discriminate people isn?t based on objective criteria. It?s determined by our own preconceptions of what is valuable and how that person relates to us. Underlying this are the assumptions that we?re very important and that if people help us and meet our preconceived ideas of goodness then they?re wonderful in and of themselves.
After we?ve judged certain people to be good, whenever we see them it appears to us as if goodness is coming from them. However, were we more aware, we?d recognize that we have projected this goodness onto them.

If certain people were objectively worthwhile and good, then everyone would see them that way. But someone we like is disliked by another person. This occurs because each of us evaluates others based on our own preconceptions and biases. People aren?t wonderful in and of themselves, independent of our judgment of them.

Having projected goodness onto some people, we form fixed conceptions of who they are and then become attached to them. Some people appear near-perfect to us and we yearn to be with them. Desiring to be with people who make us feel good, we become emotional yo-yos: when we?re with those people, we?re up; when we?re not, we?re down.

In addition, we form fixed concepts of what our relationships with those people will be and thus have expectations of them. When they don?t live up to our expectations we?re disappointed or angry. We want them to change so that they will match what we think they are. But our projections and expectations come from our own minds, not from the other people. Our problems arise not because others aren?t who we thought they were, but because we mistakenly thought they were something they aren?t.

For example, after NinjaPixie and Schazwat were married for a few years, Schaz said, ?NinjaPixie isn?t the same woman I married. When we got married, she was so supportive and interested in me. She?s so different now.? What happened?

First, NinjaPixie?s personality isn?t fixed. She?s constantly changing in response to the external environment and her internal thoughts and feelings. It?s unrealistic to expect her to be the same all the time. All of us grow and change, going through highs and lows.

Second, can we ever assume we know who someone else is? When Schaz and Pixie were getting to know each other before they were married, each one built up a conception of who the other one was. But that conception was only a conception. It wasn?t the other person. Schaz?s concept of Pixie wasn?t Pixie. However, because Schaz wasn?t aware of this, he was surprised when different aspects of NinjaPixie?s personality came out. The stronger his concept of her was, the more he was unhappy when she didn?t act according to it.

How strange to think we completely understand another person. We don?t even understand ourselves and the changes we go through. We don?t understand everything about a speck of dust, let alone about another person. The false conception that believes someone is who is who we think he or she is makes our lives complicated. On the other hand if we are aware that our concept is only an opinion, then we?ll be much more flexible. However, if we take it one step further, and practice Silence of the Mind? we?ll be much more centered, peaceful and wise.




--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.

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OfflineSchazWat
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Re: Entheogens [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3405141 - 11/24/04 05:15 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

I will retract my discussing human sacrifice and hallucinogens in any form. It is not a decisive issue as practically every human culture practiced human sacrifice in at least one point in their history as I know it. There might be a few exceptions. Even the Israelites practiced the worship of Moloch and Bail, and there is no conclusive evidence they were using any psychoactive substance.

In any case there is no evidence to conclude that because Mayans used mushrooms, that led them to commit human sacrifice.

Actually, it was probably not until the Toltecs conquered most of Mexico that human sacrifice began, at least according to some sources on the internet.

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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Entheogens [Re: SchazWat]
    #3405215 - 11/24/04 05:30 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

I think your ability to retract a view you stated earlier is a very good sign. :smile:  :heart:

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Invisibleninjapixie
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Re: Entheogens [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #3406853 - 11/25/04 12:47 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

You say pleasure is derived from something outside yourself yet believe there is no self to begin with so in reality, any pleasure/love gained from outside 'yourself' is the same as the pleasure/love gained from within 'yourself' as outside and in are the same. (I love language games).

All positivity stems from this dualistic time bound state too. The ego state is not as bad as you make it out. Be careful not to get attached to oneness and believe it is the ultimate state over separatness.


--------------------
Put that monkey back in the oven.

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OfflineSchazWat
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Re: Entheogens [Re: ninjapixie]
    #3407254 - 11/25/04 04:44 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

It might actually be more likely, that human sacrifice did not occur in Mesoamerica until the Aztecs.

What the truth is about anything is always a mystery.
All I have as evidence of Aztec human sacrfice is the writings of spanish missionaries who had an agenda of their own.

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OfflineSchazWat
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Re: Entheogens [Re: SchazWat]
    #3407372 - 11/25/04 06:38 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

It still doesn't deny the fact that most of these entheogens are restricted where I live. There are a number of possible explanations for it:

1) The Government and Scientists and Doctors truly care about people and don't want them to be hurt.

2) The pharmaceutical companies want them restricted so they can figure out how they work and patent them as medicines.

3) The Military sees them as a possible biological/chemical warfare agent.

4) There is an evil conspiracy of elitist who do not want the people to experience the divine for themselves.

5) In a democractic nation the majority of the vote just says NO.

Still nobody has conclusively proved to me that the 'entheogenic' experience is helpful. Since there is an aweful lot of propaganda I can't believe anyone whether pro or con.

What is truth?

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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Entheogens [Re: SchazWat]
    #3407375 - 11/25/04 06:42 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

SchazWat said:
Still nobody has conclusively proved to me that the 'entheogenic' experience is helpful. Since there is an aweful lot of propaganda I can't believe anyone whether pro or con.

What is truth?




You're right, nobody can give you the answer. Truth is what you find out FOR YOURSELF.

This is why so many of us advocate the useage of entheogens only after having TRIED THEM.

If you truly want to find the truth (for YOU) then you should eat an 8th of mushrooms DESPITE the "restrictions" where you live and find out. I'm not saying "eat them and you'll agree with us," I'm saying eat them with an open mind and draw your own conclusions.

They are restricted where I live too, but abiding by those restrictions is an act of allowing someone else to make your decisions for you instead of finding out for yourself and therefore making your own decisions.

Edit: P.S. I didn't read the whole thread thoroughly, so if you've tried entheogens and I failed to note that, I apologize for the assumption. Furthermore: if you've tried them yourself, you can draw your own conclusions as it is so there should be no need for this thread. (I guess that's why I assume you haven't.)

Edited by JacquesCousteau (11/25/04 07:08 AM)

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OfflineSchazWat
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Re: Entheogens [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3407384 - 11/25/04 07:09 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

That is the only advice I think is worthwhile. I have no plan to try them until I am fairly sure I know it will be right.

I have not experienced the 'entheogenic experience', and I am not in a rush to find out either.

Later

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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Entheogens [Re: SchazWat]
    #3407398 - 11/25/04 07:25 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

SchazWat said:
That is the only advice I think is worthwhile. I have no plan to try them until I am fairly sure I know it will be right.





But how can you be even fairly sure if you won't take anyone's advice? If you aren't going to be swayed by others' opinions, then there is only one way to find out if it will be right, and that is to try it.

Quote:


I have not experienced the 'entheogenic experience', and I am not in a rush to find out either.




Then that is your choice, but it doesn't explain why you are wandering onto message boards asking questions about them... I'm not saying you HAVE to try them, but you are asking questions and I am simply telling you that the answer to your questions lies only in the experience itself.

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OfflineSchazWat
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Re: Entheogens [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3407429 - 11/25/04 07:54 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

The Madman. Have you ever heard of the madman who on a bright morning lighted a lantern and ran to the market-place calling out unceasingly: "I seek God! I seek God!" As there were many people standing about who did not believe in God, he caused a great deal of amusement. Why? is he lost? said one. Has he strayed away like a child? said another. Or does he keep himself hidden? Is he afraid of us? Has he taken a sea voyage? Has he emigrated? - the people cried out laughingly, all in a hubbub.

The insane man jumped into their midst and transfixed them with his glances. "Where is God gone?" he called out. "I mean to tell you! We have killed him, you and I! We are all his murderers! But how have we done it? How were we able to drink up the sea? Who gave us the sponge to wipe away the whole horizon? What did we do when we loosened this earth from its sun? Whither does it now move? Whither do we move? Away from all suns? Do we not dash on unceasingly? Backwards, sideways, forwards, in all directions? Is there still an above and below? Do we not stray, as through infinite nothingness? Does not empty space breathe upon us? Has it not become colder? Does not night come on continually, darker and darker? Shall we not have to light lanterns in the morning? Do we not hear the noise of the grave-diggers who are burying God? Do we not smell the divine putrefaction? - for even Gods putrify! God is dead! God remains dead! And we have killed him!

How shall we console ourselves, the most murderous of all murderers? The holiest and the mightiest that the world has hitherto possessed, has bled to death under our knife - who will wipe the blood from us? With what water could we cleanse ourselves? What lustrums, what sacred games shall we have to devise? Is not the magnitude of this deed too great for us? Shall we not ourselves have to become Gods, merely to seem worthy of it? There never was a greater event - and on account of it, all who are born after us belong to a higher history than any history hitherto!" Here the madman was silent and looked again at his hearers; they also were silent and looked at him in surprise.

At last he threw his lantern on the ground, so that it broke in pieces and was extinguished. "I come too early," he then said. "I am not yet at the right time. This prodigious event is still on its way, and is traveling - it has not yet reached men's ears. Lightning and thunder need time, the light of the stars needs time, deeds need time, even after they are done, to be seen and heard. This deed is as yet further from them than the furthest star - and yet they have done it themselves!" It is further stated that the madman made his way into different churches on the same day, and there intoned his Requiem aeternam deo. When led out and called to account, he always gave the reply: "What are these churches now, if they are not the tombs and monuments of God?"

Friedrich Nietzsche. The Gay Science (1882), section 125

No doubt.

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OfflineSchazWat
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Re: Entheogens [Re: SchazWat]
    #3407447 - 11/25/04 08:08 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

I have no further interest in entheogens at this point and doubt they would be beneficial to me at this time.

I'll leave this site behind now, after all, it did say it was free access to everyone, and if I decide to come and ask questions, and people take offense by the issues I bring up, than I leave it in your hands to decide why it is you take offense or treat anything I say as truth or falsehood? I never made any claims to either.

Adios

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OfflineNomad
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Re: Entheogens [Re: SchazWat]
    #3407485 - 11/25/04 08:38 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Did you read the FAQ?

"Encounters with other beings are a recurring feature of high-dose trips. I will not tackle the complex philosophical issues of what they are (if anything), how they got there, and what they mean; all I know is that they exist. Some common types: The "mantid", an alien-looking insect-headed creature that tends to appear extremely intelligent and aware and neutral/negative towards the tripper. Can be green or grayish-white. The so-called "DMT elf", a gnome-like playful, funny and usually friendly entity. Happy dancing little people that appear in large groups. Shapeless, but conscious, masses of hyperspace protoplasm. There are other types, but these four seem to recur quite often."

Boy, is there no sense of adventure in you?

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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Entheogens [Re: SchazWat]
    #3407494 - 11/25/04 08:42 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

SchazWat said:
I'll leave this site behind now, after all, it did say it was free access to everyone, and if I decide to come and ask questions, and people take offense by the issues I bring up, than I leave it in your hands to decide why it is you take offense or treat anything I say as truth or falsehood? I never made any claims to either.





I did not take offense. :smile: I wish you peace and love wherever you journey on to.  :heart:

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OfflineSchazWat
Stranger
Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 28
Last seen: 19 years, 3 months
Re: Entheogens [Re: Nomad]
    #3407496 - 11/25/04 08:42 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Do you really think I would take the advice of someone on the internet?

I consider it as an experiment in objective science. I found out what I needed to know very quickly.

And yes I did read the FAQ.

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OfflineNomad
Mad Robot

Registered: 04/30/02
Posts: 422
Last seen: 16 years, 3 months
Re: Entheogens [Re: SchazWat]
    #3407515 - 11/25/04 08:49 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

I didn't give you any advice. I couldn't care less.

I asked if there is no sense of adventure in you? Doesn't it make you curious when you read something like that? That's a honest question. I'm just interested in finding out about and understanding other people. That is something I care about.

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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,007
Re: Entheogens [Re: Nomad]
    #3407616 - 11/25/04 09:34 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

I thought SchazWat did a dramatic exit already
maybe this is a "must have the last word" type of
"anti-entheogen entheogen thread" with a dramatic
exit, that is just not adequately epiphanous yet.

I move we all breathe psychic smoke to the cause and mantra "SchazWat" to make this whole thing a bit more worthwhile.

let there be fan fare on the exit, drama and ribbons, music and dancing.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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