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OfflineSchazWat
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Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 28
Last seen: 12 years, 11 days
Entheogens
    #3392248 - 11/21/04 06:36 AM (12 years, 17 days ago)

If the divine nature is already within us, why do you need an entheogen to experience it? Isn't that sort of a cheap way to nirvana? I thought the road to enlightenment was hard and narrow.


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Offlinelonebuddha
whats it allabout?
Registered: 11/01/04
Posts: 255
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
Re: Entheogens [Re: SchazWat]
    #3392270 - 11/21/04 07:16 AM (12 years, 17 days ago)

You don't need an entheogen to experience nirvana I simply feel it can help. I feel that through our lives we have been program to think along the lines of only reality and of this physical world. Its difficult to find nirvana through this perspective. With an etheogen it alters your perception and you are better able to see inside yourself. None the less the road is still difficult. Just because you take something doesn't mean you become enlightened. I still feel the road to enlightenment is hard and narrow. I don't know anyone who feels they have reached this nirvana, personally at least. In fact I think its a constant process that is always improved upon until you die. Of course this is just my opinion. Its different for everyone.


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OfflineSchazWat
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Re: Entheogens [Re: lonebuddha]
    #3392467 - 11/21/04 09:38 AM (12 years, 17 days ago)

What do you mean 'better able to see inside yourself'?

I have read many reports on the internet I don't see from their experience what this means or how it was useful. Most of it is cliche stuff out of a bad 90's movie.

What do you mean by programmed? I think beyond this physical world and reality often, and I never used entheogens at all.


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OfflineJCoke
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Re: Entheogens [Re: SchazWat]
    #3392481 - 11/21/04 09:45 AM (12 years, 17 days ago)

go drop some acid and find out, kid.


--------------------
hello, your name is life on earth
------------------------------------

"I traveled a long way seeking God, but when I finally gave up and turned back, there He was, within me! O Lalli! Now why do you wander like a beggar? Make some effort, and He will grant you a vision of Himself in the form of bliss in your heart." -the saint of the Kashmir Shaivism tradition: Lalli.


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Entheogens [Re: SchazWat]
    #3392485 - 11/21/04 09:48 AM (12 years, 17 days ago)

Entheogens offer a glimpse of the summit, then place you back at the bottom of the mountain. They're not a free ticket to the top, more like a visiting pass...


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InvisibletrendalM
point of inflection
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Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 19,376
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: Entheogens [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3392489 - 11/21/04 09:50 AM (12 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

JacquesCousteau said:
Entheogens offer a glimpse of the summit, then place you back at the bottom of the mountain. They're not a free ticket to the top, more like a visiting pass...




I think Jacques pinned this one!


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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OfflineJCoke
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Re: Entheogens [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3392496 - 11/21/04 09:55 AM (12 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

JacquesCousteau said:
Entheogens offer a glimpse of the summit, then place you back at the bottom of the mountain. They're not a free ticket to the top, more like a visiting pass...




you got it.


--------------------
hello, your name is life on earth
------------------------------------

"I traveled a long way seeking God, but when I finally gave up and turned back, there He was, within me! O Lalli! Now why do you wander like a beggar? Make some effort, and He will grant you a vision of Himself in the form of bliss in your heart." -the saint of the Kashmir Shaivism tradition: Lalli.


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Offlinebmarley3434
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Re: Entheogens [Re: JCoke]
    #3392614 - 11/21/04 11:32 AM (12 years, 17 days ago)

as i once heard mckenna say .. entheogens are the beginning of the path .. and i agree with him.. most sages and divine people have had their path crystalized by having some sort of experience with a divine plant. yogis in india smoke shitloads of ganja mixed with datura leaves and i happen to see them as extremely enlightened individuals.i feel these plants can help the path become very solidified. but i feel that if youre walking the path its whatever works.. if you can get the same effects from 20 minutes of meditation stick to that.. however it takes 20 years of meditation to compare to 10 minutes of salvia for me personally


--------------------
www.returntonature.us - wild foods blog


OM


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Offlinebmarley3434
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Re: Entheogens [Re: bmarley3434]
    #3392617 - 11/21/04 11:35 AM (12 years, 17 days ago)

p.s. sorrry for the double post but if you think about it.. everything is chemicals wether indogenus or exogenus .. fasting creates chemical reactions.. meditation creates chemical reactions.. sleep depravation. hallucinogens.. every spiritual ritual creates some sort or another of chemical reaction..


--------------------
www.returntonature.us - wild foods blog


OM


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Offlineoceansize
fuckin' right.

Registered: 08/31/04
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Re: Entheogens [Re: bmarley3434]
    #3392643 - 11/21/04 11:53 AM (12 years, 17 days ago)

I think trying to validate mushrooms as a path to enlightenment equal to meditation or asetic practice is like saying....

The euphoria from bumping heroin is the same as that as winning an Olympic medal after training your whole life and working for it.  :rolleyes:

"What you put into it is what you get out of it"


--------------------
"And we should consider every day lost on which we have not danced at least once. And we should call every truth false which was not accompanied by at least one laugh." - Friedrich Nietzsche



Edited by oceansize (11/21/04 11:55 AM)


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OfflineSchazWat
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Re: Entheogens [Re: JCoke]
    #3392726 - 11/21/04 12:45 PM (12 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

JCoke said:
go drop some acid and find out, kid.




I don't really consider Acid or anything made in a lab to qualify as an 'entheogen', but that's my personal choice. I only qualify substances that are natural and have been used by cultures religiously to really qualify.

Now, if you were to say, go drop some rye fungus, I would qualify that as an entheogenic experience leading quickly to intense pain, suffering, madness and death. It is after all natural lysergic amides.
And does have a long history in western society and religion. They call it Saint Anthony's Fire.

I would consider something like HBWR or Morning Glories, but I'm afraid I will get ergot poisoning from them. However, they do not contain cyanides, that's bullshit. They DO contain ergot alkaloids, and that's what I'm afraid of. I do not know if that type of ergot alkaloid will cause Saint Anthony's Fire but I'm not real keen on finding out.


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Offlinetheocean06
Yeah, I've donefour already...

Registered: 07/10/04
Posts: 1,458
Last seen: 5 years, 4 months
Re: Entheogens [Re: SchazWat]
    #3392733 - 11/21/04 12:50 PM (12 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

SchazWat said:
I would consider something like HBWR or Morning Glories, but I'm afraid I will get ergot poisoning from them. However, they do not contain cyanides, that's bullshit. They DO contain ergot alkaloids, and that's what I'm afraid of. I do not know if that type of ergot alkaloid will cause Saint Anthony's Fire but I'm not real keen on finding out.




You don't have to worry about getting ergot poisoning from eating HBWS. I know many people (a lot of this site) that have taken them and absolutely nothing is physically wrong with them because of eating the seeds.


--------------------


The story of life is quicker then the blink of an eye, the story of love is hello, goodbye.            - Hendrix :bow:


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OfflineJCoke
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Registered: 02/17/04
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Re: Entheogens [Re: SchazWat]
    #3392883 - 11/21/04 02:03 PM (12 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

SchazWat said:
Quote:

JCoke said:
go drop some acid and find out, kid.




I don't really consider Acid or anything made in a lab to qualify as an 'entheogen', but that's my personal choice. I only qualify substances that are natural and have been used by cultures religiously to really qualify.

Now, if you were to say, go drop some rye fungus, I would qualify that as an entheogenic experience leading quickly to intense pain, suffering, madness and death. It is after all natural lysergic amides.
And does have a long history in western society and religion. They call it Saint Anthony's Fire.




fair enough, but like that other guy was saying it's all just a bunch of chemical reactions, you seem to got what you want from meditation and thats cool, i got what i want from lsd/lsa/shrooms/salvia etc etc...

I have never heard of anyone getting ergot poisoning from morning glories or hbwr, more likely to get struck by lightning as far as I care.


--------------------
hello, your name is life on earth
------------------------------------

"I traveled a long way seeking God, but when I finally gave up and turned back, there He was, within me! O Lalli! Now why do you wander like a beggar? Make some effort, and He will grant you a vision of Himself in the form of bliss in your heart." -the saint of the Kashmir Shaivism tradition: Lalli.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Entheogens [Re: SchazWat]
    #3392965 - 11/21/04 02:28 PM (12 years, 17 days ago)

I thought the road to enlightenment was hard and narrow.

What do you base this borrowed belief on?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Entheogens [Re: bmarley3434]
    #3392971 - 11/21/04 02:31 PM (12 years, 17 days ago)

fasting creates chemical reactions.. meditation creates chemical reactions.. sleep depravation. hallucinogens.. every spiritual ritual creates some sort or another of chemical reaction..

You left out flagellation. Swami likes flagellation because I have been very, very bad. :stoned:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineTodcasil
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Re: Entheogens [Re: Swami]
    #3393068 - 11/21/04 03:01 PM (12 years, 17 days ago)

the road to enlightenment for me has always been spontanious... there has been no effort involved on my part to catch glimpses of enlightenment.

i just do what i do, i try not to hurt anyone, try to avoid hurting myself (just a personal preference) and it just happens.

time stops, the cosmic gaze drops upon me, i am grounded, all emotions flee.

then i go about my life once again.

entheogens have been an awesome recreational device, that has lead to many interesting thoughts and feelings.

they have also been the source of many moments of "experiencing the moment" or what i was refering to in the first part of my post.


--------------------
Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.


~Casil



:cactus:


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OfflineSchazWat
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Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 28
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Re: Entheogens [Re: Swami]
    #3395181 - 11/22/04 07:15 AM (12 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
I thought the road to enlightenment was hard and narrow.

What do you base this borrowed belief on?




On the experience and writing of thousands of people who lived before me and who have impacted the world on a far greater scale than I ever have.


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OfflineSchazWat
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Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 28
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Re: Entheogens [Re: JCoke]
    #3395189 - 11/22/04 07:24 AM (12 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

JCoke said:
I have never heard of anyone getting ergot poisoning from morning glories or hbwr, more likely to get struck by lightning as far as I care.




Yes you can. Fortunately the experience is so terrible people will not continue to eat them and build up to a point where the symptoms begin.


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Entheogens [Re: SchazWat]
    #3395193 - 11/22/04 07:34 AM (12 years, 16 days ago)

How do you know that the authors of the books were enlightened? Because they claimed it? What if I or another write such a book that makes different claims?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineSchazWat
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Re: Entheogens [Re: Swami]
    #3395305 - 11/22/04 12:45 PM (12 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
How do you know that the authors of the books were enlightened? Because they claimed it? What if I or another write such a book that makes different claims?




Anyone who claims to be enlightened is full of it. That's the golden rule, the 'acid test' of enlightenment. Truly enlightened people do not have to tell you they are enlightened and won't.

Why should I think that conflict is unnatural? Conflict is the only truth apparent to me in all the natural world. All existence is a paradox.

Write your book. If it stands the test of time and remains with us, than you are probably enlightened.


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