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Offline284_27
Indocybin

Registered: 07/13/03
Posts: 192
Last seen: 5 days, 15 hours
help please - moisture content
    #1795331 - 08/09/03 03:03 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

While I posted this a bit earlier ( today), I have not seen it appear on the boards . I am having a bit of a mental block and hope that someone can help me .

Parameters

wheat 1 cup ; 250 ml
100 grams wheat dried 3 hours at 250 degrees yields 86.87 grams dried grain
moisture content = 13.13% ?
250 ml wheat = 179.75 grams
179.75 grams -13.13% =156.149 grams
tmc says that the moisture content should be 48 to 52 %
48% = 149.90 grams ?
52% = 162.39 grams ?
water needed to bring 250 ml of wheat to 48 to 52% = 149.9 to 163.4 grams ?
I think that my math is correct but need some input as i have seen so many different recipes on wheat and all use substantially more water than my math gives me .


--------------------
"I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have."
- Thomas Jefferson

Fly high and I will meet you there .
- Timothy Leary


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Invisiblemicro
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Posts: 7,532
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Re: help please - moisture content [Re: 284_27]
    #1795470 - 08/09/03 03:59 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Why are you subtracting percest from grams -- the units aren't the same. Gtg -- I'll answer later when I get back if noone else does....

--
Micro


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(Avatar is Maxxy, a character by Mizzyam, RIP)


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Offline284_27
Indocybin

Registered: 07/13/03
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Re: help please - moisture content [Re: micro]
    #1795489 - 08/09/03 04:04 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

gives percentages .


--------------------
"I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have."
- Thomas Jefferson

Fly high and I will meet you there .
- Timothy Leary


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: help please - moisture content [Re: 284_27]
    #1797056 - 08/10/03 02:10 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Well, no it doesn't unless you're dealing with exactly 100g of material.

What I got:

add 132.55g H20 to make 50% H20

Check:

179.75g substrate - 23.6 g water = 156.15 g dry substrate.

You need 156.15 g water to make it 50% water - 23.6 g water already there = 132.55 g water.

not taking into account pressure cooking.

.... of course I'm drunk but I think I'm right. Someone correct me otherwise.

--
Micro



--------------------
Any research paper or book for free
(Avatar is Maxxy, a character by Mizzyam, RIP)


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Offline284_27
Indocybin

Registered: 07/13/03
Posts: 192
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Re: help please - moisture content [Re: micro]
    #1797117 - 08/10/03 02:34 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

was exactly 100 grams of material done on a triple beam for accuracy of the percentages . The final weight of water must = 1/2 of substrate when finished . therefore i came up with the weights of 149.9 - 162.39 grams or ml ( same thing )of water to be added back . The common statement is that some where in the neighborhood of 175 ml should be added back to this mix but normally an addition of CaSO4 is added or CaOH which could change the ph and the quanities of water according to staments.


--------------------
"I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have."
- Thomas Jefferson

Fly high and I will meet you there .
- Timothy Leary


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: help please - moisture content [Re: 284_27]
    #1797146 - 08/10/03 02:48 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

"250 ml wheat = 179.75 grams" is not 100g. Besides -- realize if you're adding stuff you're changing the ending volume/wieght which would change the percentages. See my post above (edited.)

--
Micro


--------------------
Any research paper or book for free
(Avatar is Maxxy, a character by Mizzyam, RIP)


Edited by micro (08/10/03 02:53 AM)


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Offline284_27
Indocybin

Registered: 07/13/03
Posts: 192
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Re: help please - moisture content [Re: micro]
    #1797494 - 08/10/03 07:53 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

No , 100 grams = the test weight to establish the water content as per tmc . With the 100 grams you establish the multiplier for the grain in this case as I believe that the percentage of water already in the wheat was 13.13% . I.E. 250 ml of grain is equal to 179.75 grams -13.13 % of included water and that gives you a product of 156.149 grams . if you have a finished product and 156.149 grams = 50% of total that means that 156.149 would also have to be water . The water that is in the grain + the water that needs to be added comprise that figure .


--------------------
"I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have."
- Thomas Jefferson

Fly high and I will meet you there .
- Timothy Leary


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: help please - moisture content [Re: 284_27]
    #1798160 - 08/10/03 02:53 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Sorry, you're wrong. It's like you said -- it's a *mutiplier*, not a subtractor. See my post above (again.)

Can someone else with some math skills PLEASE explain this better?

--
Micro


--------------------
Any research paper or book for free
(Avatar is Maxxy, a character by Mizzyam, RIP)


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Offline284_27
Indocybin

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Posts: 192
Last seen: 5 days, 15 hours
Re: help please - moisture content [Re: micro]
    #1798218 - 08/10/03 03:23 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Ok fine , have it your way . Then you give me numbers that i need for the 48 - 52 % moisture content . I would suggest that you look at TMC pages 42-48 . Mine maybe outdated as it is a first printing first edition . I just need solid number which i have yet to get . I do believe that your original statement of needing 132.56 is way off base , but may not be .


--------------------
"I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have."
- Thomas Jefferson

Fly high and I will meet you there .
- Timothy Leary


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Offline284_27
Indocybin

Registered: 07/13/03
Posts: 192
Last seen: 5 days, 15 hours
Re: help please - moisture content [Re: 284_27]
    #1798226 - 08/10/03 03:25 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Most accounts say that with 250 ml of wheat that a person needs to add 170 ml of water to 210 ml of water , however I think that this is to high . I think you have come up with the right numbers , thank you


--------------------
"I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have."
- Thomas Jefferson

Fly high and I will meet you there .
- Timothy Leary


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Invisiblemycofile
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Re: help please - moisture content [Re: 284_27]
    #1801633 - 08/11/03 02:24 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I came up with 142.32 grams water for 52% moisture content and 120.53 grams for 48%

Explanation:
179.75 grams weight of "dry" grain
"dry" grain is 13.13% water

formula for 52% moisture:
179.75 grams "dry" grain + 142.32 grams water = 322.07 grams total
142.32 (water) + 23.6 (water in "dry" grain) = 165.92 grams total water
165.92/322.07= .52 = 52% water.

For 48% moisture, 120.53:
179.75 grams "dry" grain + 120.53 grams water = 300.29 grams total
120.53 g (water) + 23.6 g (water in grain) = 144.13 total water
144.13 / 300.29 = .48 = 48% water

I'd go with the 52% figure, especially if fruiting the grain rather than using as spawn or using small (1/2 gallon or smaller) jars, or adding gypsum to prevent sticking. Go with the 48% formula if using spawn bags.


--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


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Invisiblemycofile
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Re: help please - moisture content [Re: mycofile]
    #1801648 - 08/11/03 02:29 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Oh yeah, didn't do the math myself, but micro's explanation for 50% is solid logic assuming his math was done right.

Also, his figure comes out right in the middle of my 48% and 52% figures, which it should.

So I think micro was right on the money.


--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


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Offlinetchyted
miestro
Registered: 09/03/01
Posts: 526
Loc: WA near seattle
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
Re: help please - moisture content [Re: 284_27]
    #1802303 - 08/11/03 05:28 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

forgive me for trying to outgeuss what you are trying to achieve, by introducing you to a shortcut that doesn't involve a scale.

having struggled with moisture content demons in my gormet practice with various whole grains, i stumbled on something that should have gone as granted.

add vermiculite to your grain after you have boiled it for about a half hour, you will have drained excess water and if needed, rinsed any gooy starch off. you have the right consistancy when you have mixed your grain with one to two volumes of dry verm. the verm magicly corrects moisture and maintains it in balance. also aids in shaking. in my practice, i add some H2O2 to the water that does the original boiling, while it is still cold, about a cup per pound of grain, with water to cover the grain considerably. ( it doesn't matter how much water, cuz you will drain any excess.)

no complicated math, no geussing about how consistantly you have done the batch. the verm does the work.


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Offline284_27
Indocybin

Registered: 07/13/03
Posts: 192
Last seen: 5 days, 15 hours
Re: help please - moisture content [Re: tchyted]
    #1802467 - 08/11/03 06:12 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

thank you all so much , you have all been a big help .


--------------------
"I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have."
- Thomas Jefferson

Fly high and I will meet you there .
- Timothy Leary


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InvisibleYidakiMan
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Re: help please - moisture content [Re: tchyted]
    #1802680 - 08/11/03 07:12 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

tchyted:
Could you explain your procedure better, I am a little confused.
Do you add H2O2 before boiling?
What ratio of verm to rye berries do you use?


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Invisiblecalicyco
member
Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 355
Re: help please - moisture content [Re: YidakiMan]
    #1802772 - 08/11/03 07:40 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Magic grain tek for newbies:

Submerge grain for 24 hours.

Drain well.

Scoop into jars.

DONE.

Sheesh folks! :-)


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Invisiblemycofile
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Registered: 01/19/99
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Re: help please - moisture content [Re: calicyco]
    #1802990 - 08/11/03 08:43 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah that's true calicyco and tchyted, but some scenarios call for the rigidity of an acurately prepared batch. For one, it's absolutely essential if you are trying to do any kind of experiment. A 38% grain a 50% and a 65% grain will perform differently and invalidate any conjectures obtained from the experiment.

On the other hand, for the life of me I can't imagine that for normal everyday results driven cultivation, I can't imagine why anybody would use anything other than the absolute cheapest birdseed, preped via soak, rinse, drain.


--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


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Offline284_27
Indocybin

Registered: 07/13/03
Posts: 192
Last seen: 5 days, 15 hours
Re: help please - moisture content [Re: mycofile]
    #1803147 - 08/11/03 09:31 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Because wheat is cheaper here . And I was wanting to follow the original staments ideas on grain , knowing the percentages of water to see what would grow the best etc .I know that in the mmgg staments mentioned the soak way to do grain and i assume is good , but his original was by weight and remains his way to make spawn . Though I did consider cracked corn as that is very common too , but even with that would like to know the percetage . wbs = $ .29 cracked corn = $.17 wheat = $ .10 all per lb.


--------------------
"I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have."
- Thomas Jefferson

Fly high and I will meet you there .
- Timothy Leary


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Amazon Shop: ½ Pint Jars, Gypsum, Paul Stamets, pH Test Strips, Rye Grain, Scales, Vermiculite, Wild Bird Seed

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Advanced Mycology

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