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Offlineprocule
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Registered: 01/24/03
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Loc: Quebec, Canada
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Converting the starch content of grains before sterilization
    #2161800 - 12/05/03 04:09 PM (13 years, 9 days ago)

I don't know if it has been discussed in a earlier thread but I've just thought about it.

Grains have a really high starch content as a kind of "reserve fuel" for the grains to sprout and be self sufficient during the first stage of germination.

During the sprouting, enzymes are produced to convert the starch into simple carbohydrates. Starch is in fact long chains of carbohydrates. Those carbohydrates are used during the primary stage of the plant, when it cannot get their nutrients for the soil yet.

In beer and spirits making, you use a technique called mashing. You use a mix of grains with malted barley and allow them to "simmer" in water at around 62-63 C. At that temperatures, an enzyme called "amylase" is released from the malted barley, activated and begins to convert the starch to simple carbohydrates. Then, you can create alcohol out of those carbohydrates by fermentation.

From what I have read, popcorn has a ~73%/weight starch content. The techniques to create popcorn jars ask to boil the grains for around 45 min-1h to rehydrate the grains.

My suggestion would be to add some malted barley or amylase at that stage and only simmer at ~60-63 C for 45min-1h. Then, a lot of the starch content of the popcorn would be converted to simple carbohydrates readily usuable for the mycelium. I don't know if the mycelium has the ability to break down starch.

Well that's my idea.
Of course it can be applied to any grains.

Procule



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home grown shit
god damn it


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OfflineRandolph_Carter
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Re: Converting the starch content of grains before sterilization [Re: procule]
    #2162087 - 12/05/03 05:23 PM (13 years, 9 days ago)

Well...there is one problem that i'm aware of... mycellium doesn't tolerate sugar concentrations oever 10%...i posted something about that in mushroom cult quite a bit ago... and the starchs involved are a very good food source, and i think (based on what little i know of the mushroom life cycle) that depriving them of said source would reduce flushs and deprive them of the larger molecules necessary for fruit production. Just my opinion.
Stay Frosty.
R.C.


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"..all those molecules thrashing their kinky little tails, hot for destiny and the street."  Gibson


Nuke baby seals for Jesus!

(This has been a +1 production.)


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InvisibleAutonomous
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Registered: 05/10/02
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Re: Converting the starch content of grains before sterilization [Re: procule]
    #2162482 - 12/05/03 07:36 PM (13 years, 9 days ago)

It's worth a try. I am thinking about trying malted barley flour in a PF style cake using the ratios in the PF-Tek for Simple Minds.


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"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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OfflineBobRoberts
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Re: Converting the starch content of grains before sterilization [Re: Autonomous]
    #2166641 - 12/07/03 03:55 PM (13 years, 7 days ago)

Converting long chain starches into shor chain will cause tomentose (cottony) growth and encourage stalling of the mycelium. This is the reason you don't want to use germinated seeds or have very many burst seeds in your substrate. In germinating seeds, the alpha-amylase within the seeds has already begun this process. Heat degrades the starch in burst seeds.

The extra-cellular digestion of the mycelium exists almost exactly for this reason. The enzymes excreted by the mycelium take care of this digestion and I believe having long-chain polymers to break down are a key to the healthy growth of the mycelium.

You've come across a very good insight into the habit of mycelium!


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Invisibledaussaulit
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Registered: 08/06/02
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Re: Converting the starch content of grains before sterilization [Re: procule]
    #2166757 - 12/07/03 04:40 PM (13 years, 7 days ago)

If you mash, you'll get a lot of sweet water. Are you planning on making a liquid culture?


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Invisiblemicro
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Registered: 05/09/03
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Re: Converting the starch content of grains before sterilization [Re: daussaulit]
    #2167190 - 12/07/03 07:50 PM (13 years, 7 days ago)

Simple sugars that can be used too quickly leads to a dramatic increase in the C:N ratio promting accumulation of waste products.

Brewing is a bit different -- simple sugars lead to the accumulation of alcohol in this case, too.

--
Micro


Edited by micro (12/07/03 07:51 PM)


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Offlineprocule
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Registered: 01/24/03
Posts: 84
Loc: Quebec, Canada
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: Converting the starch content of grains before steriliza [Re: micro]
    #2167786 - 12/08/03 01:55 AM (13 years, 6 days ago)

So i see the idea is not applicable to mushrooms cultivation !
If the mycelium is self sufficient to break down starches then, we won't help him :wink:

Thanks for the info all !

Procule


--------------------
home grown shit
god damn it


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