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Why is chat gone? * 6
    #17807011 -

Why was this not discussed rationally with all members or the people who actually run chat? I've had some great experiences in chat, there's often better discussions than on the actual forum. I find that it's a more welcoming place to discuss things like spirituality, psychedelic experiences and philosophy than the respective boards for those topics.

Plenty of users loved chat and the only problems caused by it were similar to the problems caused by the forums. Are we just going to delete the forums now because some people flame, get banned and complain to mods about it?


--------------------
Sapere aude

"We cannot live for ourselves alone. Our lives are connected by a thousand invisible threads, and along these sympathetic fibers, our actions run as causes and return to us as results."


UBUNTU- I am because we are.


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Re: Why is chat gone? [Re: JoieDeVivre]
    #17807031 -

Perhaps it's gone. Is there a notice?

Perhaps it's a glitch.

Why would you assume the former until you've heard one way or another?

Why should the admins discuss anything with anybody?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Why is chat gone? [Re: luvdemshrooms] * 1
    #17807063 -

I've heard that it's gone for good. It may just be down but chat op tags are all gone along with the chatterbox staff forum so I'm assuming it's gone for good. I know it's been considered lately so I'm not entirely surprised.

Of course the admins aren't required to discuss their decisions but honestly without all the users the admins wouldn't have anything to do. I think that removing such a popular feature should be up for discussion  especially when it's not really causing any big problems compared to the problems caused by other parts of the forum. :shrug:


--------------------
Sapere aude

"We cannot live for ourselves alone. Our lives are connected by a thousand invisible threads, and along these sympathetic fibers, our actions run as causes and return to us as results."


UBUNTU- I am because we are.


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Re: Why is chat gone? [Re: JoieDeVivre] * 4
    #17807066 -

I'm really sorry to take away a service you were enjoying. :frown: I feel bad, but I think it was the right decision for the site. Let me just copy and paste some of the posts I made in the mod forum where I was arguing to close chat and hopefully you can see where I'm coming from:

Quote:
Yah I also have concerns about chat. I'm seeing lots of chat-related bans in the BoM without any supporting evidence, and I'm also getting numerous complaints about chat OPs and poor moderation. I'm worried it may end up with the same problems as IRC, where there isn't enough of a senior staff presence to ensure it's run according to our standards. But as Sell Your Soul pointed out to me, it's still a useful resource for people with pressing cultivation questions and that sort of thing. I don't have a good solution in mind, but I do think we should try to keep chat on a very tight leash. It seems to degenerate very quickly.


Quote:
I would really like to ditch chat entirely. I don't agree that the solution is just to "get in there and do some moderating". We simply don't have the time or resources for that, that's why IRC got so out of control in the first place. If we were able to oversee chat effectively, we could just re-launch IRC and keep a proper staff presence there. Changing the type of chat or the server where it's hosted isn't going to alter the fundamental problem. With the ability for chat mods to ban people from the BB, it's causing way more drama than IRC ever did, and crossing over to the site more often. I really think we should sever ties with chat. No irc.shroomery.org. No shroomery.org/chat. If someone wants to host an unofficial chat server for Shroomery members, nobody is stopping them. It has literally never been cheaper or easier. But right now, more than ever, it's only serving to piss off members and create hassle for staff. I think it's a mistake to keep offering this service in any sort of official capacity. It's just going to continue reflecting poorly on the site.


Quote:
So I just got this PM, it's one of many complaints I've received about chat recently:

Quote:
I have been a member here for a long time and i thought this site was about helping people and harm reduction.

My best friend died today of an overdose and i went into the chat to warn my shroomery brothers to be safe, and that life isnt worth drugs killing you.

i was told i was a junkie and my friend deserved to die and all this shit. then i was kicked from the room for flaming by stateofmind404.

when i came here it was nothing like this, it was about love.

i came here to talk to someone who would understand and was shit on by mods that you have put in place.

is this the kind of site you wanna be running? i was in mourning and now i am just sick to my stomach.

please man, think about the messages that are being put out by the site.

in the end it all falls back on your name.

much love


I've made my thoughts on chat known already, this is just the icing on the cake for me.

Should will kill chat? Let's do four days of voting and go with the majority decision. To be clear, when I talk about killing chat, I mean cutting all official association with any chat service. People can start their own unofficial chat rooms if they want, but they won't be endorsed or supported by the Shroomery.


The staff voted, and there were 19 people in favor of closing chat, 3 against it, and 1 who didn't have a preference. With such an overwhelming majority I felt confident with the decision, even though I knew it would upset some people.

When we first introduced Shroomery chat, there weren't a lot of chat options available and it served an important purpose. But it's extremely simple to create a chat room these days. You literally just have to go to http://tinychat.com/ and click a button. Or if someone wants to run their own IRC or Chatterbox implementation, they can do it on a shared server which costs $5/month. I absolutely encourage people to create and maintain an unofficial Shroomery chat room, I just don't think the site should be directly associated with it.

Anyway I hope that makes sense, even if you don't like my answer. Again, I'm sorry to disappoint you by removing this feature!

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Re: Why is chat gone? [Re: JoieDeVivre] * 2
    #17807090 -

JoieDeVivre said:
Why was this not discussed rationally with all members or the people who actually run chat? I've had some great experiences in chat, there's often better discussions than on the actual forum. I find that it's a more welcoming place to discuss things like spirituality, psychedelic experiences and philosophy than the respective boards for those topics.

Plenty of users loved chat and the only problems caused by it were similar to the problems caused by the forums. Are we just going to delete the forums now because some people flame, get banned and complain to mods about it?


JoieDeVivre said:
Why was this not discussed rationally with all members or the people who actually run chat? I've had some great experiences in chat, there's often better discussions than on the actual forum. I find that it's a more welcoming place to discuss things like spirituality, psychedelic experiences and philosophy than the respective boards for those topics.

Plenty of users loved chat and the only problems caused by it were similar to the problems caused by the forums. Are we just going to delete the forums now because some people flame, get banned and complain to mods about it?


I personally am a Lil ticked off too dude. As a "former" chat mod I believe we had this figured this out together. We need a way people will come to CHAT MODS with there issues with chat. I feel as tho the moderators of the forums are getting all the complaints and we as chat mods don't really hear any of these complaints. I propose that there should be a desperate ticket system FOR CHAT problems. Where as chat mods we can agree or disagree. Or at least have a forum deticated to chat problems that's linked onto the chat page so people can find it a lot easier to find instead of going to the forum mods with there chat problems. I understand there are daily complaints about how things are run or how they sent run properly just they need to go to the right people to deal with.


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I Smoke knowlege, I Drink courage,And Swallow Fear, I'm Like A God Ill Show You How To Feel.

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Re: Why is chat gone? [Re: Specialty] * 3
    #17807111 -

I feel like we had this figured out too. A few people complaining about their bans is nothing different than what happens in the forums. I don't see why an entire feature needs to be deleted because a few people were bothered by getting more emails about disciplinary action. This isn't something new, every time someone's banned on the forums there's usually a big response just like there was in chat. I don't see why chat couldn't be treated like another forum and why all complaints couldn't be directed to chat mods first.


--------------------
Sapere aude

"We cannot live for ourselves alone. Our lives are connected by a thousand invisible threads, and along these sympathetic fibers, our actions run as causes and return to us as results."


UBUNTU- I am because we are.


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Re: Why is chat gone? [Re: JoieDeVivre] * 3
    #17807157 -

Agreed. I guess we just need to keep trying. I believe chat was a great addition to the shroomery. I helped and got taught a ton of information from world views, politics, help with grows and plants there are a lot of good people who were in chat and there were so few complaint s that's actually brought to our attention to discuss n deliberate upon I feel as tho we have robbed people of the ability to get a question answered and being informed of general knowledge. Just we gotta figure out a way to have a complaint system that works!


--------------------
I Smoke knowlege, I Drink courage,And Swallow Fear, I'm Like A God Ill Show You How To Feel.

MY TRADE LIST
Spec's Mini Bulk Tek
Got Noob Questions? Shoot me a pm :pm:
Also looking for spore prints to purchace or trade pm me

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Re: Why is chat gone? [Re: JoieDeVivre] * 1
    #17807167 -

Edit: Opened this user-created forum so we can all stay in touch.

Shroomery Chat Friendships
If you became close with anyone in Chatterbox and wish to remain in contact, feel free to post here to maintain those close ties.

I hope everyone who has logged into Chatterbox during its inception gives this user-created forum a chance.

Fair warning - I had made a My Little Pony subforum to mess around with functionality, but it's not going any further than that original thread.

******

The trolls are the reason we can't have nice things.

People complain about "unfair moderators" but I've had to warn/kick/ban people with whom I speak with at length. People get out of control. People come on high on drugs. It's to be expected.

It's not gonna come back, it'd be foolish to think so. Andy did a good job. My fellow chatops did a good job

Things could've been done a bit differently, but don't we look back on life and say that about everything anyway?

I couldn't have asked for more for being opped when this was launched. The only regret I have is that I could've spent more time while it lasted.

I don't know how daytime chat was, but from midnight to 8am EST it was a wonderful environment, and I'm going to miss the shit out of it.

I made a lot more friends in chat during the last 3 months than I have on these boards with my original account and this current account.

It's a shame, and I hate to see it go, but whatever Ranchy wants I guess.


I still can't believe you guys let users like sheekle and k00laid get the better of the forum mods. That speaks loudly of how you guys handle your shit on your side. We backed up our bans in official threads. We had to keep certain users under scrutiny yet not be biased. It's not easy, especially real time.

That being said, Ranchy, get some goddamn new forum mods. This high school clique shit of these retards has gotta stop at some point. If they couldn't handle something as simple as chat complaints then what the fuck are they doing here in the first place?

They're dropping like flies the last 4-5 years, and at a certain point you've gotta ask "Oh gee, why is my staff quitting?"

Edited by Dystopia (02/15/13 03:40 PM)

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Re: Why is chat gone? [Re: Specialty]
    #17807201 -

Specialty said:
Agreed. I guess we just need to keep trying. I believe chat was a great addition to the shroomery. I helped and got taught a ton of information from world views, politics, help with grows and plants there are a lot of good people who were in chat and there were so few complaint s that's actually brought to our attention to discuss n deliberate upon I feel as tho we have robbed people of the ability to get a question answered and being informed of general knowledge. Just we gotta figure out a way to have a complaint system that works!


For sure.  A big part of the reason there wasn't supporting evidence given in the ban listings was because the chat client we used would disconnect a lot, deleting the previous chat log.

:shrug: Guess I have more time for Myco-Tek now.


--------------------
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Re: Why is chat gone? [Re: Adden] * 1
    #17807207 -

I feel the exact same way that you do. [though I don't think k00laid always meant to troll]

I'm really sad that chat is gone, I made a lot of close friendships there too. Chat fostered a much closer and more open environment than the forums. I'm upset that I got a renewed supporter account only to find one of my favorite aspects of the site is gone.

I think that deleting chat was completely the wrong way to go, all chat related problems should have been directed to the chat staff first. Even with that not happening, the chat complaints were not beyond what forum mods are supposed to be handling. If it's too much for them to handle a few more moderation complaints then maybe we need more forum mods or people who aren't bothered by doing the duties that are assigned to them? :shrug:


--------------------
Sapere aude

"We cannot live for ourselves alone. Our lives are connected by a thousand invisible threads, and along these sympathetic fibers, our actions run as causes and return to us as results."


UBUNTU- I am because we are.


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Re: Why is chat gone? [Re: TheDeathryder] * 1
    #17807214 -

TheDeathryder said:
Specialty said:
Agreed. I guess we just need to keep trying. I believe chat was a great addition to the shroomery. I helped and got taught a ton of information from world views, politics, help with grows and plants there are a lot of good people who were in chat and there were so few complaint s that's actually brought to our attention to discuss n deliberate upon I feel as tho we have robbed people of the ability to get a question answered and being informed of general knowledge. Just we gotta figure out a way to have a complaint system that works!


For sure.  A big part of the reason there wasn't supporting evidence given in the ban listings was because the chat client we used would disconnect a lot, deleting the previous chat log.

:shrug: Guess I have more time for Myco-Tek now.


Yep, and I just found out yesterday that forum mods didn't even have access to our banlist, warnings, official ban thread, etc. this entire time.

No wonder they had no idea what was going on.

At least yogabunny and Gumby gave enough of a fuck about both sides of the website to even show their face. They did an amazing job, cared about the client, and even helped us by offering different viewpoints. It seems other moderators would only come in for a bit, find something to scrutinize, and leave.

Gimme a break.



edit - "If it's too much for them to handle a few more moderation complaints then maybe we need more forum mods or people who aren't bothered by doing the duties that are assigned to them?"

Yep!

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Re: Why is chat gone? [Re: TheDeathryder] * 3
    #17807217 -

I'll post this from the other thread.

there wasn't much rationality in the chat. in terms of mods anyways.

Enlil said:
I used chat a lot, but I'm also glad that it's gone.  The moderation in there created much of the drama.  On many occasions, I flamed, trolled, and otherwise violated the rules and never got banned from the place...while others were banned for far less egregious infractions than mine.

Eventually, it became obvious that certain members were mod favorites, and others were disliked by mods.  This is a recipe for drama to spill over onto the forums.

I don't believe that the mods were chosen with the same care that forum mods are chosen, and this resulted in the drama that was created....

To quote Dystopia:  "Fun while it lasted, guys."


Enlil said:
I used chat a lot, but I'm also glad that it's gone.  The moderation in there created much of the drama.  On many occasions, I flamed, trolled, and otherwise violated the rules and never got banned from the place...while others were banned for far less egregious infractions than mine.

Eventually, it became obvious that certain members were mod favorites, and others were disliked by mods.  This is a recipe for drama to spill over onto the forums.

I don't believe that the mods were chosen with the same care that forum mods are chosen, and this resulted in the drama that was created....

To quote Dystopia:  "Fun while it lasted, guys."



--------------------
AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!

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Re: Why is chat gone? [Re: Specialty] * 3
    #17807220 -

The fact is that most questions didn't get answered...at least that is what I saw in the time I was there.  Unpopular people were routinely banned for minor things, while the cool kids got away with murder (I know I did).

The simple truth is that chat moves at a pace much greater than the forums.  When things go wrong, they escalate very quickly and are often not dealt with.  Unless there is someone literally watching 24/7, there's always gonna be drama from it.  The forums move more slowly, so moderation is a bit easier.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Why is chat gone? [Re: Adden]
    #17807229 -

Dystopia said:
Yep, and I just found out yesterday that forum mods didn't even have access to our banlist, warnings, official ban thread, etc. this entire time.

No wonder they had no idea what was going on.




Seriously. Why was trying to fix this problem not the first step prior to deleting the entire chatterbox? I think if forum mods had access to these things nearly all problems here would have been fixed. :confused:

I just feel like this was such an irrational decision that was made primarily by the people who didn't even use chat or try to look into the actual root of the problem.


--------------------
Sapere aude

"We cannot live for ourselves alone. Our lives are connected by a thousand invisible threads, and along these sympathetic fibers, our actions run as causes and return to us as results."


UBUNTU- I am because we are.


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Re: Why is chat gone? [Re: TheDeathryder]
    #17807230 -

TheDeathryder said:
For sure.  A big part of the reason there wasn't supporting evidence given in the ban listings was because the chat client we used would disconnect a lot, deleting the previous chat log.



wow this is far from what i was told by chat mods.

"WE HAVE EVERYTHING LOGGED" :rolleyes: the truth comes out.


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AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!

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Re: Why is chat gone? [Re: Enlil] * 3
    #17807234 -

This site is fuckin gay... im done with it-- u just took away the only reason i even visited anymore... THanks Ythan... :frown: :frown: :frown:


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Re: Why is chat gone? [Re: op2kal]
    #17807244 -

op2kal said:
This site is fuckin gay... im done with it-- u just took away the only reason i even visited anymore... THanks Ythan... :frown: :frown: :frown:


Take care man :hug:

Thanks for time well spent.

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Re: Why is chat gone? [Re: Adden] * 3
    #17807257 -

I, for one, am very disappointed in this decision. Despite the complaints, the general atmosphere of chat was awesome. Everybody pretty much got along, questions were answered quickly and many lulz were enjoyed by all.

You talk about all the complaints you got, but you seem to forget that people don't complain until things go bad. Most of us had a great experience there.

As for people getting banned - most of them are lucky I wasn't an op. I'd have laid the hammer down so hard their heads would explode.


--------------------
Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.

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Re: Why is chat gone? [Re: Adden] * 2
    #17807274 -

i never got complaints for chat; i'm almost certain most of them ended up being support tickets which go to the admins.

i loved IRC, and the way that worked was much better than the chat system on-site worked. there really should have been way more beta testing before it was officially launched, with a firm set of rules in place in addition to the rules that apply to posting on the site.

i don't know what was going on in there, i never went in as i don't concern myself with anything other than moderating the actual forums. after the fiasco (which wasn't even the FIRST fiasco) with IRC, i was against the idea that a chat should even be created, especially without proper testing before launching.

you guys act like being a moderator on the forums is so easy, so stress free. please stop making assumptions about the type of job we have to do as well as making broad generalizations about all of us. i don't claim to know what your life is like, so please don't make assumptions about mine.


--------------------
-- Accept my heart warming gift of TREE SCRATCHIES!!! I absolve thee!! --

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Re: Why is chat gone? [Re: 36fuckin5] * 3
    #17807278 -

36fuckin5 said:
As for people getting banned - most of them are lucky I wasn't an op. I'd have laid the hammer down so hard their heads would explode.



its already been established there was much favoritism and power abuse going on in the chat.

youre just admitting you would have been worse...


--------------------
AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!

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