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JoieDeVivre said:
I know what happened with IRC and I don't see how chatterbox was at risk for a similar instance. I don't see why chat was allowed to go on for so long if it was going to be deleted based upon what had already happened with a prior chat client.

So this isn't up for discussion at all? The only people who have any say are the people who had little to no experience with chat? Why are the forums not deleted? There's much more drama, flaming, bans and moderator complaints in regards to the forums. I'm just not understanding the rationale behind such a harsh decision.

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Ythan said:
I'm really sorry to take away a service you were enjoying. I feel bad, but I think it was the right decision for the site. Let me just copy and paste some of the posts I made in the mod forum where I was arguing to close chat and hopefully you can see where I'm coming from:

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Yah I also have concerns about chat. I'm seeing lots of chat-related bans in the BoM without any supporting evidence, and I'm also getting numerous complaints about chat OPs and poor moderation. I'm worried it may end up with the same problems as IRC, where there isn't enough of a senior staff presence to ensure it's run according to our standards. But as Sell Your Soul pointed out to me, it's still a useful resource for people with pressing cultivation questions and that sort of thing. I don't have a good solution in mind, but I do think we should try to keep chat on a very tight leash. It seems to degenerate very quickly.

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I would really like to ditch chat entirely. I don't agree that the solution is just to "get in there and do some moderating". We simply don't have the time or resources for that, that's why IRC got so out of control in the first place. If we were able to oversee chat effectively, we could just re-launch IRC and keep a proper staff presence there. Changing the type of chat or the server where it's hosted isn't going to alter the fundamental problem. With the ability for chat mods to ban people from the BB, it's causing way more drama than IRC ever did, and crossing over to the site more often. I really think we should sever ties with chat. No irc.shroomery.org. No shroomery.org/chat. If someone wants to host an unofficial chat server for Shroomery members, nobody is stopping them. It has literally never been cheaper or easier. But right now, more than ever, it's only serving to piss off members and create hassle for staff. I think it's a mistake to keep offering this service in any sort of official capacity. It's just going to continue reflecting poorly on the site.

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So I just got this PM, it's one of many complaints I've received about chat recently:

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I have been a member here for a long time and i thought this site was about helping people and harm reduction.

My best friend died today of an overdose and i went into the chat to warn my shroomery brothers to be safe, and that life isnt worth drugs killing you.

i was told i was a junkie and my friend deserved to die and all this shit. then i was kicked from the room for flaming by stateofmind404.

when i came here it was nothing like this, it was about love.

i came here to talk to someone who would understand and was shit on by mods that you have put in place.

is this the kind of site you wanna be running? i was in mourning and now i am just sick to my stomach.

please man, think about the messages that are being put out by the site.

in the end it all falls back on your name.

much love

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I've made my thoughts on chat known already, this is just the icing on the cake for me.

Should will kill chat? Let's do four days of voting and go with the majority decision. To be clear, when I talk about killing chat, I mean cutting all official association with any chat service. People can start their own unofficial chat rooms if they want, but they won't be endorsed or supported by the Shroomery.

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The staff voted, and there were 19 people in favor of closing chat, 3 against it, and 1 who didn't have a preference. With such an overwhelming majority I felt confident with the decision, even though I knew it would upset some people.

When we first introduced Shroomery chat, there weren't a lot of chat options available and it served an important purpose. But it's extremely simple to create a chat room these days. You literally just have to go to http://tinychat.com/ and click a button. Or if someone wants to run their own IRC or Chatterbox implementation, they can do it on a shared server which costs $5/month. I absolutely encourage people to create and maintain an unofficial Shroomery chat room, I just don't think the site should be directly associated with it.

Anyway I hope that makes sense, even if you don't like my answer. Again, I'm sorry to disappoint you by removing this feature!

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Acidic_Sloth said:
it was discussed, and a consensus was reached. i'm truly sorry you are unhappy with our decision, but it is what it is.

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Acidic_Sloth said:
your chat, or someone else's chat could be used by any Shroomery member; Ythan even encouraged anyone who wanted to make their own chat to post a link to it in this thread, or make a thread promoting it. but we will no longer provide chat services to our members in an official capacity.


it was discussed, and a consensus was reached. i'm truly sorry you are unhappy with our decision, but it is what it is.

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Acidic_Sloth said:
your chat, or someone else's chat could be used by any Shroomery member; Ythan even encouraged anyone who wanted to make their own chat to post a link to it in this thread, or make a thread promoting it. but we will no longer provide chat services to our members in an official capacity.


it was discussed, and a consensus was reached. i'm truly sorry you are unhappy with our decision, but it is what it is.

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Fair enough. I can live with that. However think your decision is cowardly, lazy, and catering to the trolls who have truly won this time. I'm so disgusted with the behavior of those people who have completely gotten the best of what is supposed to be an intelligent forward-thinking community. It's a shame.....I'll live though. On with the stream of impermanence.

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Alan Rockefeller said:

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JoieDeVivre said:
I know what happened with IRC and I don't see how chatterbox was at risk for a similar instance. I don't see why chat was allowed to go on for so long if it was going to be deleted based upon what had already happened with a prior chat client.

So this isn't up for discussion at all? The only people who have any say are the people who had little to no experience with chat? Why are the forums not deleted? There's much more drama, flaming, bans and moderator complaints in regards to the forums. I'm just not understanding the rationale behind such a harsh decision.

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Instead of complaining about a lack of chat, please start a new one.

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POWAtrippin said:
Huh, so enlil literally complains when he is banned from the chat and when he is NOT banned from the chat.  I wish I could go back to that WAF post where he complained.

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Enlil said:

favorites...you turned a blind eye to certain proscribed conduct and banned others for that same conduct.  Consistency is paramount in these things.

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Enlil said:

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POWAtrippin said:
Huh, so enlil literally complains when he is banned from the chat and when he is NOT banned from the chat.  I wish I could go back to that WAF post where he complained.

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I've never been banned from chat...I should have been many times.

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JoieDeVivre said:
So basically this isn't up for discussion at all

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and anyone who questions the decisions made and the rationale behind the decision is going to be brushed off.

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Saying "do it on your own if you want it so bad," is a little childish in my opinion when I'm trying to have an actual discussion about this and make constructive suggestions.

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If so many users want one, why not just implement one correctly the first time rather than creating one and getting rid of it the first time a problem pops up?

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Acidic_Sloth said:
it was reached rationally; it had been being discussed since chat was first implemented and finally reached consensus. it was launched too hastily, and the fallout of that means that it could not be run properly, so it had to go. before it was even implemented, we tried to figure out ways to get it to work right, but again, it was a hasty decision to launch when we did and unfortunately for those who enjoyed chat, that means it is no more.


ShroomDoom: the amount of direct flaming by you toward our users and toward the administration is enough to have had you banned at this point; something i will not personally do as long as you cut it out. but it definitely emphasizes the poor choice in ops that were chosen. as Enlil mentioned, you were an op in a professional capacity, and you have acted entirely unprofessionally on this matter. as i was never in chat myself, i can't speak as to your attitude while it was still up, but i would not be surprised if it were the same as you are showing snow.

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