quinn said:

faith based beliefs are not the root cause and often harmless imo.

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Diploid said:

but people seem to care more about Romney's beliefs about his magical Mormon underwear than they do anything of real substance to themselves.

You don't think a president who believes he wears magical underwear wouldn't have substantive impact on your life?

A guy who thinks people live on the sun is given the freekin nuclear launch codes is not a substantive concern?

Did you know that our current deficit and the state of the world is largely due to the cost of a trillion dollar war in Iraq that George Bush started because god told him to do it? He's on record saying this. Things this absurd I couldn't make up if I tried.

C'mon man. I gave you more credit than this.

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Icelander said:

when some had achieved actual enlightening and potential empowering results through their practice. Some knew exactly what they were doing

And you know this how?

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Diploid said:

that is true mysticism

No Scotsman is a thief.
But I know a thieving Scotsman.
Aye, he's not a true Scotsman.

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MotherNaturesSon said:

Diploid said:

that is true mysticism

No Scotsman is a thief.
But I know a thieving Scotsman.
Aye, he's not a true Scotsman.

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Not sure if this is meant as an agreement or argument against what i'm saying. whatever the case, i find it a witty and funny parallel.

but it is flawed either way, as I'm talking about something one practises and becomes through action whilst you are talking about nationality, something one is born with. And stealing isn't the ideal pararel to whatever undoes a mystic, neither is immoral action in general. As you're talking about bad behaviour and I'm talking about mindlessness of practise. Not all mystics were pleasant people. Look up Alistair Crowley. Great mystic - sick personality. I repeat- mystics are those who manipulate their brains to enhance their very being and marvel at knowledge of both the internal and external. They don't deny science or go about telling people how to look at spirituality like many pious people often do these days. Most of them like to keep their practice private in fact, as they have no points of religious or social nature to make.

I stand by what I said- the common understanding most people have on mysticism  is a misconception because they are not aware of what it actually was all about and liken them to crazy religious sects or religions. Some religions in particular have demonised its practice and created some persisting social complex that all mystics are people in dark robes, sacrificing animals to a dark demon lord to gain power. And it's perpetuated by recycling the same trend in our culture. though nicely done a first, just saying it's getting old and seems to narrow our view on what a villain could actually be like.

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This has always been my understanding of what in essence mysticism is as well.
Most definitely not a belief system...
I think it becomes obscured by the western paradigms over aggrandizement and over mystification of the sort of phenomenon and practices which allow one to access altered states that lead to and are born of the pursuit of knowledge to dissolve barriers of understanding and gain insights into our own nature and our nature as a species... etc.

As a matter of fact,  you can witness the demonization of mystic practices in the history of almost every religion around the world. The Indian Yogi is a classic example... If you look at ancient depictions of Yogi's, they are very often depicted as evil sorcerers... 
I believe this to be largely due to the fact that their intellectual and experiential insights and modes of honest questioning and way of thinking poses a threat to the validity of one's belief system or worldview... Most of us have seen through the work of Ernest Becker how people react to this sort of thing.

In Sufi Mysticism, they are actually encouraged to treat this sort of thing with delicacy, to be courteous of the fragility of the world views of others and to be courteous and act within' social convention even though they have come to realize through their practice and pursuit of knowledge that it's ALL is just a fluid load of shit.
That's actually something I should practice more myself... But I'm guilty of getting a little pleasure of watching people squirm in their skin and heads...

Maybe when I'm old and wise...

Well, you like Pythagorus? Ingenious guy right? Well he and his followers did a little of "Pythagoreanism".

A system of esoteric and metaphysical beliefs held by Pythagoras and his followers, the Pythagorean cult, who were considerably influenced by mathematics.

They used the pentagram as a symbol, one they borrowed from ancient babylonian mathematical oriented mystics, a symbol that incarnates the golden rectangle and golden ratio. The ancient Pythagorean pentagram was drawn with two points up and represented the doctrine of Pentemychos. Pentemychos means "five recesses" or "five chambers," also known as the pentagonas — the five-angle, and was the title of a work written by Pythagoras' teacher and friend Pherecydes of Syros. The Pythagoreans are known for their theory of the transmigration of souls, and also for their theory that numbers constitute the true nature of things. They performed purification rites and followed and developed various rules of living which they believed would enable their souls to achieve a higher rank among the gods (as in esoteric knowledge pertaining to self-mastership and the attainment of higher consciousness).

Now if this guy was such a brilliant man, why would he be partaking in such weird things? Because it works. It's actually effective and more than some sort of religious practise. Nuff said, as you can see, true mysticism is not what many of you think.

I'm just saying mystics are really misunderstood and under-understood (wtf? ) They aren't worth the rep they are getting, then again, they don't really care what we think. But I'm just trying to spread awareness.

OrgoneConclusion said:

Every single person claiming mystical powers that has submitted to testing has failed. Thus far none or them are real.

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Quote:

true mysticism is not what many of you think.

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Quote:

No true mystic will claim he has mystical powers.

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MotherNaturesSon said:

Any person (won't even call him a mystic) claiming to have mystical powers is a child trying to wear daddy's shoes and completely ignorant of the true meaning behind mysticism. He is just being an idiot and making everybody else involved in mystics and esoteric practise look bad. True there's more of these kind than those I have pointed out, but they ARE out there.

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This makes me think of girls I grew up with and women I have known in adulthood who say they are witches and practice their goofy neo-paganism shit. Unbeknownst to themselves these ridiculous Witch roles they are acting out were a product of our European ancestors patriarchal Roman-Christian conquerors demonization of women in our cultures where women often held important positions of power in both politics and spirituality.
I can't help but feel a tad bit embarrassed for them.
Once again, the product of over mystification and gross aggrandizement of things which people at some point were threatened by.

OrgoneConclusion said:

Apparently only what you think, not unlike every Christian that frequents this board with the only 'true' interpretation of the Bible.

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I'm not giving you an interpretation of a specific mystic practise like one would of the bible. merely an opinion based on careful study of the subject. That is, as a general subject- mysticism. There is an obvious trend in those forms of mysticism that were mature (such as the Pythagoreans) and that is a practise of mystical and esoteric knowledge pertaining to self-mastership and the attainment of higher consciousness for the advancement of the evolution of man.

OrgoneConclusion said:

I doubt that either

A: There is a 'true' mystic code

or

B: You have met and interviewed every 'true' mystic.

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Icelander said:

It's portrayed in their literature.

In other words you don't know anything personally but hey it's in the holy book so it must be true.

Plus it sounds real bitchin.

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Not only their literature (which are by the way far from being mere holy books filled with fairy tales and likeable fictional characters), but literature on the subject itself. there are many people, who unlike most, have taken their time to actually look into mysticism for what it is in its many forms and unified tendencies, rather than just arrogantly dismiss it as religious trash. Some people suspected and known as mystics throughout history have contributed to the development of this world. Leanardo da vinci, pythagorus, isaac newton, galileo, plato, etc. I'm quite frankly amused you should say I have no personal knowledge on the subject. After all I've tried to put forth as valid arguments, it's clear I have more than you do, no offense.


My point is merely that if you vilify mysticism, you vilify a great number of people who deserve the contrary. I don't really care if mysticism, as a practise, floats your own boats


From what I see, many just have trouble letting go of their pre-existing twisted contempt for mysticism merely because they wrongfully associate it with a religious practise and worship of entities or general charlatans (which there are some of, those who claim to gain magical extrasensory powers for once). When in fact so much good has come for mystic practise and no one even seems to care to acknowledge that. in fact, it seems like many just try to ignore it. sad indeed

Raven Gnosis said:

This makes me think of girls I grew up with and women I have known in adulthood who say they are witches and practice their goofy neo-paganism shit.

Unbeknownst to themselves these ridiculous Witch roles they are acting out were a product of our European ancestors patriarchal Roman-Christian conquerors demonization of women in our cultures where women often held important positions of power in both politics and spirituality.

I can't help but feel a tad bit embarrassed for them.

Once again, the product of over mystification and gross aggrandizement of things which people at some point were threatened by.

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You are SO spot on with this. These people are seriously giving mysticism a bad rep and also a silly one. they're practising stuff thought up by the christian churches. like satanists who worship the pentagram complete and utter bullshit. esoteric bullshit, people who think they have magic powers to read the future, read a person (though these things CAN be done to some extent through intense deductive thinking, but you don't need to be a mystic to do that), move objects with their minds and all kinds of shit

Icelander said:

I'm quite frankly amused you should say I have no personal knowledge on the subject.

I'm waiting to hear about it.  By knowledge I mean experience.  Anyone can read a book and memorize a few things about what something supposedly is.  Let's take Bible scholars for instance.  They know the bible well but cannot demonstrate it's truth.

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So you would like of me to tell you about my own personal experiences practising mysticism? As in tell you about my rituals and the results? I could do that if that wouldn't be derailing the topic too much and if you were able to take it seriously enough not to troll me