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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms
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Has anyone tried using gibbrellic acid?
    #17019040 -

I've read a few papers mentioning gibbrellic acid increases mushroom yields and I want to try it. Has anyone tried?

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Re: Has anyone tried using gibbrellic acid? [Re: sparkle]
    #17040189 -

Thank you for mentioning this Sparkle! Never crossed my mind much that plant hormones would have such beneficial qualities in mushroom cultivation. Just ran across this article that found the application to reduce yield size, but improved nutritional quality. Will have to keep my eye out for plant hormones and play around with them in the future.

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Re: Has anyone tried using gibbrellic acid? [Re: pseudotsuga]
    #17045538 -

Really, I read it increases yields dramatically here
Who do we believe?

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Re: Has anyone tried using gibbrellic acid? [Re: sparkle]
    #17045573 -

Its one highly effective method for mutating marijuana into autofem mode for life.
Have you guys tried this?? It mutates the specimen effected ....but its offspring are gold.
Female pollen is awesome. No y chromosome

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Re: Has anyone tried using gibbrellic acid? [Re: Oeric McKenna]
    #17045734 -

We are talking fungi here, not plants. The effects of plant hormones on plants is very well documented, but their effects on fungi is much less so.
Sparkle that is very interesting about the conflicting information, Perhaps concentrations or application of the gibberelic acid were different. Guess this just calls for a bit of experimentation.
Do you use gibberellic acid for your orchid production Sparkle?

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Re: Has anyone tried using gibbrellic acid? [Re: pseudotsuga]
    #17045970 -

Yes I do use it for orchids psuedotsuga, only in the cloning part though. It is widely used here for hybrid rice production. Since I started the thread, I tried a few flasks with GA and some w/o. We'll know in a few days.

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Re: Has anyone tried using gibbrellic acid? [Re: sparkle]
    #17046502 -

Gibberellic acid is actually (originally) a fungal product. Its produced by several species but was first identified in Giberella fujikuroi (I know its also found in several other Fusarium/Giberella species too). Its a rice pathogen, which causes seedlings to sprout up too quickly and fall over. Since then, there have been several other similar chemicals found called "Gibberellins", from plants, fungi, and bacteria.

I havent the slightest clue how it would affect growth habits in other fungi. Time to dig out the old plant biochem book and see what pathways this thing works on....


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Re: Has anyone tried using gibberellic acid? [Re: matsc]
    #17046688 -

I must say, I am skeptical about this paper on gibberellic acid and C. indica. It reads as if the authors found the holy grail. Faster colonization is of course interesting, but regarding yield, they turned a lousy yield into one that is a little bit less lousy. Just by applying a casing layer, they should have had a much greater effect.
Sparkle your yield is already three times (or more) higher, you have a fast and productive strain, good substrate and almost perfect fruiting conditions. I am not sure that there is so much room for improvement, but we will find out. Perhaps it is possible to shift some BE from the second flush into the first one.

Carsten

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Re: Has anyone tried using gibberellic acid? [Re: Mycelio]
    #17049253 -

Mycelio indeed the paper just talks about a slight improvement.But in commercial growing gibberellic acid is only one of the used groth hormones. We use mostly a combination of several of them

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Re: Has anyone tried using gibberellic acid? [Re: bitepourrie]
    #17054565 -

Done a bit of research and it appears that most of the pathways gibberellic acid works on are plant specific. Mostly seems to modulate transcription of a number of genes, so there might be some cross kingdom functionality there.... maybe.... But as to which genes it would activate in fungi, I'm not sure. Only genes I see which might show up in fungi are the amylases (starch break down enzymes) and the calmodulins (calcium sensing proteins), but don't know how much homology there is tween fungi and plants here. Not a lot of work on non-plant actions of GA3 outside human safety studies. I shall keep hunting though!

Hell, maybe fungi just use it as a carbon source, they seem to eat everything else we toss at them.


edit:
I've found one article which says specifically that "The growth of mycelium is encouraged by the addition of gibberellic acid (.0001%)" . ("Effects of Gibberellic Acid on Penicillin Yield"  N. Stees, 1964). Unfortunately the article doesnt even attempt to explain WHY this happens. :mad:

Edit again:
Found another article which shows GA3 does in fact increase amylase activity in fungi, though not by much.
"The other 6 growth regulators, indol butyric acid (IBA), gibberellic acid, cumarin, cycocel (CCC), atonik-G and kylar, did not inhibit but stimulated alpha-amylase activity (0 to 9%) at 1,000 ppm." ("Effect of chemicals on fungal alpha-amylase activity." F.S. Ali 1989)


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Edited by matsc (10/18/12 12:57 PM)

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Re: Has anyone tried using gibberellic acid? [Re: matsc]
    #17060733 -

Gibbrellic acid is a metabolite. While most metabolites slows down or arrests myc'l growth of competitor fungi, it's not inconceivable to think that this metabolite actually increases myc of other fungi. But why?
Quote:
Faster colonization is of course interesting, but regarding yield, they turned a lousy yield into one that is a little bit less lousy. Just by applying a casing layer, they should have had a much greater effect.


Yes Carsten, they might be doing something wrong to get such lousy yields. However in the more controlled invitro conditions, the myc'l weight is 4x control. Now that's impressive!

Quote:
so there might be some cross kingdom functionality there

That is sooo scary. I might grow tall and thin

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Re: Has anyone tried using gibberellic acid? [Re: Mycelio]
    #17062088 -

Sparkle,
We use chitosan to increases mushroom yields.
Prepare 2% solution of chitosan from 2 grams of chitosan powder and 100 ml of 1.5% acetic acid in water.
when use it we dilute the solution with water 1:1000, spray directly to the mushroom.
It is good for plant too.


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Re: Has anyone tried using gibberellic acid? [Re: sparkle]
    #17062099 -

Quote:
That is sooo scary. I might grow tall and thin


Wouldn't worry about. While there is very little research done on GA3 affecting other fugni, there is a TON of research on its human safety (And other animal models. Rats and whatnot). There's some research that shows a build of of peroxidated lipids in the liver and kidneys.... In very high, very long term doses. Basically keep it out of your eyes and you should be fine, as long as you dont eat a gram of the stuff every day for a month.


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Re: Has anyone tried using gibberellic acid? [Re: matsc]
    #17062748 -

That's interesting Packdee, is chitosan expensive?
Matsc, I remember a few years back, a new employee drank 5 grams of GA + coconut water stock solution in the lab ref. She said it was delicious. Now we add activated carbon so nobody makes a mistake. But nothing happened to her.
Anyway page 151 of Chang and Quimo's book there is a mention of GA

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Re: Has anyone tried using gibberellic acid? [Re: sparkle]
    #17063035 -

chitosan is an over the counter drug in USA  available on Ebay its not exspensive

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Re: Has anyone tried using gibberellic acid? [Re: sparkle]
    #17063333 -

sparkle said:
That's interesting Packdee, is chitosan expensive?


Chitin is a component of the cell walls of mushrooms and plants.
Chitin exracted from shrim shells.
Here chitin power is only 800 Baths a kilo.


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Re: Has anyone tried using gibberellic acid? [Re: packdee58]
    #17064786 -

Ehm, I think you meant to say 'cell walls of mushrooms and exoskeletons of insects and crustaceans'. Plants have cellulose as cell walls.

Back to gibberellic acid...
There seems to be a lot of confusion about the proper dose.
  • 'Influence of Some Growth Regulators on Biomass Production And Sporophore Yield of Milky Mushroom (Calocybe Indica)' says 50ppm, while they obviously didn't test higher doses.
  • Chang writes 0.001%, which is 10ppm, citing 'Volz 1972', which leads me to Lepista, Cantharellus, Pleurotus and Volvariella, where 1000ppm, 100ppm and 10ppm were tested and only V. volvacea reacted with accelerated growth at 10ppm. The two higher doses inhibited growth or killed the mycelium of all four species.
    http://www.springerlink.com/content/v6766vnt04507377/
  • That Penicillin paper, Masc cited, says 1ppm.
  • The other paper, he cited, mentions 1000ppm.
  • Found another one with 1ppm and 10ppm for Pleurotus tuber-regium.
    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0308814694902127

LOL, so for C. indica 50ppm appears like a good starting point for agar and LC.
This is 50mg per liter, correct?
How would this translate to substrate?
50ppm related to water content, dry matter or both?

Carsten

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Re: Has anyone tried using gibberellic acid? [Re: Mycelio]
    #17064923 -

correct, 50ppm = 50mg/L . Id just add to the water you hydrate with, rather than worrying about total mass. May want to start with 10ppm though, since it seems that less is more in some cases.

Could also depend a great deal on the substrate you grow on. Given that it increases amylase activity (maybe) a starchy substrate would probably be favored (like BRF) over others (like wood or straw).

As for chitosan, I could see WHY it would work (its basically chitin broken down into short oligomers) but Im not sure id spend the money to test it myself.


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Re: Has anyone tried using gibberellic acid? [Re: matsc]
    #17065425 -

GA is not water soluble need to pass first over alcohol

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Re: Has anyone tried using gibberellic acid? [Re: bitepourrie]
    #17065581 -

bitepourrie said:
GA is not water soluble need to pass first over alcohol


Not entirely. GA3 has some solubility in water, especially at these low concentrations. Another option is using the potassium salt, which isnt that difficult to find (This is what I used to use when I worked in a plant lab).

But if you wish, you can make a stock solution with alcohol then dilute with water. Probably best to use a minimum of alcohol to avoid undue stress on the fungus.


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms
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