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OfflineSuntzu
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Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics]
    #560821 - 02/23/02 06:42 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

After a couple failed attempts, I decided to try mixing the grubs directly in the spawn jar. Here are the critters, aren't they cute?



The culture wasn't exactly fresh, and Cordyceps doesn't seem to recover quickly after shaking anyway. . .so I was a bit surprised to see it jump off into the mealworms so vigorously. . .





Notice how the disturbed mycelium much prefers the insects to the grain itself.

Past experiments that failed:

1. Straight LIVE mealworms move around too much to get colonized very well. They also morph into beetles eventually.

2. Mealworms inoculated with mycelial slurry [shake and bake style] died very quickly and didn't colonize as expected.

So now comes the hard[er] part, providing an environment suitable for fruiting. I was considering removing the worms only, and planting them somewhat like sclerotia.

Any advice or ideas would be appreciated. . .

**Oh, I guess I should add the sordid details on how I prepared the grubs--They were sauteed for about 30 seconds in a pan of boiling water. My theory was that it would do a couple things--
mini-pastuerize the exoskeleton [some previous ones had molded]
soften the exoskeleton [host caterpillars have much softer skin]
There still was the issue of host specificity, but these jars seem to be evidence that hyperinoculating can overcome it.


Edited by Suntzu (02/23/02 07:40 PM)


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InvisibleOlgualion
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Suntzu]
    #561052 - 02/23/02 11:26 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

That is really awesome!!

I have been searching for info on cordyceps, and it seems as though they only grow naturally at elevations between 14,000 and 16,000 feet. I know that labratory cultivation is possible, but I think this is only mycelial cultivation. Do you know if any mushrooms have been produced under laboratory conditions? I am wondering if the altitute and the conditions associated with it (low pressure and thin air) are needed for obtaining actual mushrooms? Only a wild guess though.

Best of luck to you!

BTW - how hard was it to obtain a cordyceps culture?


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InvisibleMeltingPenguin
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Suntzu]
    #561180 - 02/24/02 02:32 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

meat eating myco, this is extremely interesting


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OfflineSuntzu
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: MeltingPenguin]
    #562597 - 02/25/02 03:18 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Olgualion; I posted the same thing over at the FF and got some great information from Aaron, check it out----

http://www.theforestfloor.org/forum/ikonboard.cgi?s=3c7a861f390fffff;act=ST;f=11;t=206


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OfflineSuntzu
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Suntzu]
    #564687 - 02/27/02 11:27 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I found these links, I thought maybe someone might find them interesting:

First, a source for Silkworms!!!

http://www.mulberryfarms.com/index.php?page=products

Second, a company just a few hours' drive from here that is fruiting *some* kind of Cordyceps:

http://www.hotwaytech.com/english/cordyceps.html

Anyone up for a tour?



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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Suntzu]
    #564700 - 02/27/02 11:56 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I?d love to go, but I?m a couple of thousands of miles too far away.

But when you go, please don?t forget to ask them for a cordyceps culture and some substrate. :wink: 


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Offliner05c03
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Anno]
    #564961 - 02/27/02 06:40 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

So uh, what exactly do you want to grow this particular fungus for? Just curious.


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InvisibleOlgualion
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: r05c03]
    #564963 - 02/27/02 06:43 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

It's high pricetag, is one reason I'd be iinterested.  Someone posted that 1 oz. is worth about 2 oz. of gold! :smile: 


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Olgualion]
    #565374 - 02/28/02 02:15 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

According to the above website, they go from 2000$-3000$ per 2 pounds.


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OfflineSuntzu
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Anno]
    #565598 - 02/28/02 10:39 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Which will undoubtedly increase as the massive pickings continue. . . .

I still wish they would say what species they are cultivating at hotway.com;


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Suntzu]
    #565977 - 02/28/02 05:02 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Couldn?t you ask them?


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InvisibleAzulAgave
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Suntzu]
    #566351 - 02/28/02 11:54 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I remember as a kid putting insects in the fridge. Putting the meal worms in the freezer prior to exposing to mycelium may slow their matabolism and pupa stage down long enough to provide the mycelium enough time to propagate on the meal worms. From the stuff I read in the links from this thread it seems the best way would be to get young meal worms and expose them to mycelium at an early stage. Then keep the temperature at 10-13C. Suntzu is there anyway I could get a culture from you.
Suntzu what type of agar do you maintain your cultures on?


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OfflineSuntzu
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: AzulAgave]
    #567272 - 03/01/02 10:58 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah Anno, since they haven't responded to my emails, I think a pestering phone call is in order :wink:
I have 150 large silkworms coming to my doorstep!  The dude was pretty interested in this.  He asked what I was feeding, and when I told him a parasitic fungus he said "Now THAT'S unusual!".  His primary clients are reptile owners.
He talked me into ordering a few tobacco hornworms; who knows, they grow HUGE and FAST; if they get colonized their sheer mass might favor fruiting.
One potential problem with the silkworms and hornworms is that they are soft and gushy.  They will probably pop if I try the sauteeing technique.  Mealworms are firm enough to handle this treatment.
Aaron pointed out something I think is very valid; a better route might be to get a multispore culture [via dried fruits, or someone's stock].  But just for shits and giggles I'm going forward on this with the culture at hand--by the way, public thanks, Anno!
Az., send me a PM.  I had a disaster with my culture 'drawer' this week, but can probably help you out.  I sort of switch between potato dextrose agar and cornmeal/starch/yeast extract agar.  The cornmeal is actually outperforming the PDA, but they're both pretty damn good :smile:
   


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Invisibleaaron
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Suntzu]
    #567288 - 03/01/02 11:27 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Dry heat (oven roasting) processing silkworms or hornworms at about 195.degree. F. for about 24 hours, (to make them hard) it was just an idea.

Would like to here how it go's with the silkworms and hornworms and how they compare to the Mealworms?


Edited by aaron (03/02/02 01:31 AM)


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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: MeltingPenguin]
    #567579 - 03/02/02 10:26 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Here is some stuff I found at www.mushworld.com. Membership to this great info source is free, and it appears that there is a good deal of info waiting to be searched for.

Growing Conditions for Cordyceps species

Writer: Gwang-po Kim / Date :2000-07-16 / hits: 17
Cordyceps sinensis can be used as food and medicine. In China and Japan, this mushrooms are highly valued is medicine or health food.

Until recently, the supply of the Cordyceps relied mostly on harvests of naturally grown mushrooms; however, as demand for the mushrooms shows a constant increase in the world market, the existing supply has become scarce.

There is an active movement for research and development of the mushroom resource in the fields of artificial culture, liquid fermentation, and application of new techniques.

Through artificial cultivation of Cordyceps mushrooms, which is a very complicated and difficult process, it is not easy to have mycellium formed because the complex environmental conditions that affect the host insects' ecological surroundings directly or indirectly must be regulated precisely, not to mention the ecological conditions suitabl e for the mushrooms.

*On occasions change in temperature, to a lower degree, is necessary.
The Cordyceps bacterium prefer relatively low temperature, about 15~20 C, and form sclerotium at a degree between 10~20 C, and stroma at 14~25 C.
It demands higher temperature for the stroma to grow on the ground surface, about 26~32 C, and spores are released at 28~32 C.

*Humidity conditions should meet each of the following conditions.
- Air humidity 80~90% for growth, stroma formation, and releasing of spores.
- 50~80% air humidity, and water content of ground 40% for hibernation of the infected host insect.
- For the growth of mycellium in the host's body, 60~70% humidity.
- Sclerotium can be formed only in dry environments, at about 10~20% humidity.

* As for air conditions, most of the Cordyceps bacterium are aerobes, but for some facultative anaerobes, oxygen should be regulated.

*Different light conditions are demanded according to different growth stages.
- Light is not required for spore germination or for mycellial growth.
- For the formation of sclerotium and stroma, a little bit of light is required.

*Acidity conditions
- Cordyceps grow in low-acid conditions.
- Mycellial growth takes place between pH 5.0~6.5 acidity, and it shows the fastest growth rate at pH 6.0~6.3.



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OfflineSuntzu
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: r05c03]
    #573338 - 03/06/02 07:58 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)



Silkworms.............

Poor little bastards are getting a nasty infection tonight :smile:
 


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OfflineoOjonahOo
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Suntzu]
    #574104 - 03/09/02 10:52 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

well that was unexpected! man thats kinda gross....

you tried to inoculate live mealworms?

pretty cool experiment though too...good luck


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OfflineTamrylin
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Suntzu]
    #574503 - 03/09/02 09:29 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

dam.. so ur gonna fry those poor lil critters up and feed them to some mycelium?


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Offlinelycopodium
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on the medical side of things [Re: Tamrylin]
    #582256 - 03/18/02 01:04 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

here are some interesting journal references that i've found, there were many more of interest but were published in japanese and chinese journals in the respective language


1: Shin KH, Lim SS, Lee SH, Lee YS, Cho SY. Related Articles
Antioxidant and immunostimulating activities of the fruiting bodies of Paecilomyces japonica, a new type of Cordyceps sp.
Ann N Y Acad Sci. 2001 Apr;928:261-73.
PMID: 11795517 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

2: Park JP, Kim SW, Hwang HJ, Yun JW. Related Articles
Optimization of submerged culture conditions for the mycelial growth and exo-biopolymer production by Cordyceps militaris.
Lett Appl Microbiol. 2001 Jul;33(1):76-81.
PMID: 11442820 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

3: Li SP, Li P, Dong TT, Tsim KW. Related Articles
Anti-oxidation activity of different types of natural Cordyceps sinensis and cultured Cordyceps mycelia.
Phytomedicine. 2001 May;8(3):207-12.
PMID: 11417914 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

4: Yamaguchi Y, Kagota S, Nakamura K, Shinozuka K, Kunitomo M. Related Articles
Antioxidant activity of the extracts from fruiting bodies of cultured Cordyceps sinensis.
Phytother Res. 2000 Dec;14(8):647-9.
PMID: 11114006 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

5: Bucci LR. Related Articles
Selected herbals and human exercise performance.
Am J Clin Nutr. 2000 Aug;72(2 Suppl):624S-36S. Review.
PMID: 10919969 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

6: Nikoh N, Fukatsu T. Related Articles, Nucleotide
Interkingdom host jumping underground: phylogenetic analysis of entomoparasitic fungi of the genus cordyceps.
Mol Biol Evol. 2000 Apr;17(4):629-38.
PMID: 10742053 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

7: Bok JW, Lermer L, Chilton J, Klingeman HG, Towers GH. Related Articles
Antitumor sterols from the mycelia of Cordyceps sinensis.
Phytochemistry. 1999 Aug;51(7):891-8.
PMID: 10423860 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

8: Zhu JS, Halpern GM, Jones K. Related Articles
The scientific rediscovery of a precious ancient Chinese herbal regimen: Cordyceps sinensis: part II.
J Altern Complement Med. 1998 Winter;4(4):429-57. Review.
PMID: 9884180 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

9: Zhu JS, Halpern GM, Jones K. Related Articles
The scientific rediscovery of an ancient Chinese herbal medicine: Cordyceps sinensis: part I.
J Altern Complement Med. 1998 Fall;4(3):289-303.
PMID: 9764768 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

10: Kuo YC, Tsai WJ, Shiao MS, Chen CF, Lin CY. Related Articles
Cordyceps sinensis as an immunomodulatory agent.
Am J Chin Med. 1996;24(2):111-25.
PMID: 8874668 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

11: Manabe N, Sugimoto M, Azuma Y, Taketomo N, Yamashita A, Tsuboi H, Tsunoo A, Kinjo N, Nian-Lai H, Miyamoto H. Related Articles
Effects of the mycelial extract of cultured Cordyceps sinensis on in vivo hepatic energy metabolism in the mouse.
Jpn J Pharmacol. 1996 Jan;70(1):85-8.
PMID: 8822093 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

12: Kiho T, Hui J, Yamane A, Ukai S. Related Articles
Polysaccharides in fungi. XXXII. Hypoglycemic activity and chemical properties of a polysaccharide from the cultural mycelium of Cordyceps sinensis.
Biol Pharm Bull. 1993 Dec;16(12):1291-3.
PMID: 8130781 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

13: Chen K, Li C. Related Articles
Recent advances in studies on traditional Chinese anti-aging materia medica.
J Tradit Chin Med. 1993 Sep;13(3):223-6, contd. Review.
PMID: 8246603 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

14: Yoshida J, Takamura S, Yamaguchi N, Ren LJ, Chen H, Koshimura S, Suzuki S. Related Articles
Antitumor activity of an extract of Cordyceps sinensis (Berk.) Sacc. against murine tumor cell lines.
Jpn J Exp Med. 1989 Aug;59(4):157-61.
PMID: 2601113 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

15: Ohmori T, Tamura K, Tsuru S, Nomoto K. Related Articles
Antitumor activity of protein-bound polysaccharide from Cordyceps ophioglossoides in mice.
Jpn J Cancer Res. 1986 Dec;77(12):1256-63.
PMID: 3102430 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

16: Yamada H, Kawaguchi N, Ohmori T, Takeshita Y, Taneya S, Miyazaki T. Related Articles
Structure and antitumor activity of an alkali-soluble polysaccharide from Cordyceps ophioglossoides.
Carbohydr Res. 1984 Jan 10;125(1):107-15.
PMID: 6704989 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

17: Ukai S, Kiho T, Hara C, Morita M, Goto A, Imaizumi N, Hasegawa Y. Related Articles
Polysaccharides in fungi. XIII. Antitumor activity of various polysaccharides isolated from Dictyophora indusiata, Ganoderma japonicum, Cordyceps cicadae, Auricularia auricula-judae, and Auricularia species.
Chem Pharm Bull (Tokyo). 1983 Feb;31(2):741-4. No abstract available.
PMID: 6883594 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

18: Kneifel H, Konig WA, Loeffler W, Muller R. Related Articles
Ophiocordin, an antifungal antibiotic of Cordyceps ophioglossoides.
Arch Microbiol. 1977 May 13;113(1-2):121-30.
PMID: 560831 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

19: Melling J, Belton FC, Kitching D, Stones WR. Related Articles
Production of pure cordycepin (3'-deoxyadenosine) from Cordyceps militaris.
J Pharm Pharmacol. 1972 Dec;24:Suppl:125P. No abstract available.
PMID: 4144844 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

20: Kaczka EA, Trenner NR, Arison B, Walker RW, Folkers K. Related Articles
Identification of cordycepin, a metabolite of Cordyceps militaris, as 3'-deoxyadenosine.
Biochem Biophys Res Commun. 1964;14:456-7. No abstract available.
PMID: 5836541 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


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Offlinegray1
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Suntzu]
    #597565 - 04/03/02 01:37 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

any progress?


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Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, Agar, Cordyceps, Potato Dextrose, pH Test Strips

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms

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