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OfflineAlexander
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kombucha
    #899023 - 09/22/02 12:02 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Hi dudes!
my kombucha cultures are grrowin'up well and I've some babies to give away.
if ypu're interested I'll trade or sell them.
...what do you have? (seeds,spores,plants...)

Peace
Ax


--------------------
Love in the name of the Lord
      JAH RASTAFARI!!


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: kombucha [Re: Alexander]
    #900911 - 09/23/02 04:58 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Could you tell us more about this? What is it growin on? Have you tried it?


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Invisiblevampirism
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Post deleted by Moe Howard [Re: zeronio]
    #901032 - 09/23/02 07:10 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)



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Offlineaural
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Re: kombucha [Re: ]
    #901483 - 09/23/02 12:25 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

As much as I worship Stamets,his take on the whole Kombucha thing is kind of negative...


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OfflineMystrysAbsynth
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Re: kombucha [Re: aural]
    #902456 - 09/23/02 08:33 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah, I'm in agreeance about his negativity. I can vouch for the health benefits personally. I've been brewing and drinking it for over a year now. I have better control of my sugars(diabetes) and my BP went down....it helps with my liver function as I have probs there as well. My cholesterol levels are all WAY below the norm.  Between the 'booch, colloidal silver, and the Pureganic powder and liquid Manna....HUGE improvements...I really love the taste as well.

If you try brewing it with a good Pu 'Erh tea.... The 'Chinese Penicillin', a nice Ti Kuan Yin as well  and even try adding small amounts of fruit juices in the process...it can be fun. It can be just as important WHICH tea you use as how it's 'brewed'. Time will also change the acidity level, the 'fizziness' the sweetness. I personally like mine a bit on the sweet side...more like a hard cider flavor.

A good reason to use the Chinese Pu 'Erh tea to start it out  is because, although at first I thought it tasted like a basement. This may be because Pu-Erh teas  are aged in bamboo baskets which are sitting in caves. The actual production details are a secret that dates back to Ming dynasty. Apparently, US Tea Statutes disallow any tea that smells musty, of which Pu-Erh has in abundance. Bacteria is another thing Pu-Erh has in abundance and this is part of why Pu-Erh is a proven cholesterol cutter and dietary aid.
mmmmmm....gonna go have some. BTW..you should ALWAYS know who, how and with what your scoby(baby or starter 'fungus') was harvested. If it was started witha good healthy 'Mother" and a good quality tea was used..you'll be good to go :wink:


ENJOY!
:tongue: ~K~ 


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Offlinevalkyrie
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Re: kombucha [Re: MystrysAbsynth]
    #904627 - 09/24/02 03:23 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

On an offhand note about colloidal silver, you might seriously want to do some research into that. Reports I've read suggest that

a: many companies products dont actually contain what they state, some have bacterial contaminants, many dont even contain colloidal silver at all or have varying quantities, impurities...

b: Silver medicinal products have been shown to cause argyria, a nasty disease involving silver deposits in your skin that turns you grey all over... not all products may cause this, but since there are no specific regulations for these products, how do you know the concentrations, specific compounds contained, etc etc....

c: colloidal silver based products have been sold as 'snake oil' since at least the 1920's.... popularity has faded in and out for decades and still there is no legitimate research about these products.

Its been a bit since I looked up this information. Please dig a little bit to get past the crap these companies put out! some 'natural' medicinal products are truely beneficial, but some are a load of hogwash.... take care of yourself.

placebo is powerful.

some sites with information both positive, negative, neutral---

http://together.net/~rjstan/rose1.html
http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/PhonyAds/silverad.html
http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/DSH/colloidalminerals.html
http://www.elixa.com/silver/lindmn.htm
http://www.fda.gov/cvm/index/updates/silver.html

be careful.


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OfflineMystrysAbsynth
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Re: kombucha [Re: valkyrie]
    #904884 - 09/24/02 04:41 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I appreciate the concern...I did my research and only buy  the best  stuff from the Herbal Healer academy. :laugh:

http://www.herbalhealer.com/

good stuff...the 4-herb tea is awesome!!  Lots of good cleansing stuff here.

:tongue: ~K~ 


--------------------
Try not to let your mind wander...It is too small and fragile to be out by itself


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OfflineToxicManM
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Re: kombucha [Re: aural]
    #905092 - 09/24/02 05:44 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

The people I know who are really negative about Kombucha feel that way because they have been involved as consultants with cases of food poisoning caused by it. The cases I am familiar with involved something not going quite right and the culture becoming contaminated with bacteria. The person growing it didn't notice or realize what had happened and drank some of the contaminated stuff and ended up with a fairly serious case of food poisoning. If you're into it, you should probably find a way to make sure that doesn't happen to you - food poisoning can be very serious.


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OfflineSuntzu
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Re: kombucha [Re: ToxicMan]
    #906085 - 09/25/02 02:07 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I had heard that same story, people who died from a culture becoming ?bacterially contaminated?.  When I searched around on the internet, I couldn?t find much, but the [admittedly biased] kombucha sites report that those deaths were actually elderly/folks with pre-existing conditions, and that the link wasn?t proven in any of the cases.  This is by no means a scientific link, take it for what it?s worth:

http://w3.trib.com/~kombu/konnection/fda.html

Toxicman, I would really be interested in any specifics you can provide about actual cases;  Was culture work done?  Something found?  Google just isn?t giving the nitty gritty. :wink:

As the cultures were gaining new popularity a decade ago, it was one thing that would have undoubtedly stood out while trying to establish ?causes of death? in a couple of the many unexplained deaths each year.  ?Well, my mother had been drinking that wierd tea, doctor?.  Until I can read an actual case report [or something more founded than these internet searches--from either point of view] I?ll have a hard time believing it. 

A few years ago, I had an active culture with a mat about an inch thick.  I worked in a micro lab at the time, so had no problem getting sterile supplies and blood agar plates to grow out a mL of the solution underneath.  Let?s just say more grew from a mL of tap water.  There were about 3-4 species that grew, a non-hemolytic Streptococcus sp., a non-hemolytic coagulase negative Staphylococcus sp., and two [possibly three] species of Lactbacillus.  Total of about ten bacterial colonies in an entire mL [5% CO2, room temp and 37 C].  As a point of reference, a mL of skim pasteurized milk from a fresh unopened container averages around 15,000-20000 colony forming units per mL.  Granted, that high bacterial count is great at keeping other things from infecting it.  The results would have likely been different had I actually cultured near-surface mat material, or done an anaerobic culture [e.g. botulism].    Cases of specific-agent food poisoning would have likely had more suspicious clinical symptoms and warranted furthur tests to identify the source.  [in the interest of public health]  Again, I?d certainly appreciate even specific anectdotal evidence linking the culture, it?s not impossible.

I liken kombucha to sourdough cultures or beer brewing;  it?s a complex ecosystem dominated by an obligate aerobe fungus-like thing, that if cared for and transfered properly rapidly enslaves the bacterial horde.  A fresh transfer gets cloudy at first, then crystal clear after a few days.  Whatever risks are actually associated with healthy kombucha must certainly also be associated with sourdough or beer. [IMO]

?Healthy? is the important thing, I guess. . .if you just get done working some raw chicken and go straight for a kombucha transfer. . .It?s a food product to be sure.

And speaking of sourdough, I do know of people who have severe allergic reactions to active sourdough. . .mixed bacterial concoctions are going to have that risk for a few people out there.  Andrew Weil, my guru, exercises caution with kombucha both for the contam potential [no one?s perfect :smile: ] and in regards to the regular intake of an antibiotic of any kind [good point!]

Hey MA, long time no hear;  Hunting in a few weeks!

Here?s a shot of a kombucha culture I made from the generosity of the Mystrys. . .



It seems to have a slight alcohol content to it, my beer-brewing roommate offered to do specific gravity next transfer :smile:
         


Edited by Suntzu (09/25/02 02:15 AM)


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OfflineMystrysAbsynth
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Re: kombucha [Re: Suntzu]
    #906220 - 09/25/02 02:45 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

WOW Suntzu...lookin good! A beautiful example of a truly healty culture. That is the thickest and healtiest I've seen from anyone else in a LONG time. BEAUTIFUL. What kind of tea are you using?

We should get together and you can give me a hunting lesson!! However, I now live out at the base of Mt. Rainier,( a nice area for hunting I'm assuming :laugh: ) a bit longer drive for you..maybe I can  come into the city and we can look for some of your fav patches :wink:

PM me.

:tongue: ~K~ 


--------------------
Try not to let your mind wander...It is too small and fragile to be out by itself


Edited by MystrysAbsynth (09/25/02 02:46 AM)


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: kombucha [Re: Suntzu]
    #906315 - 09/25/02 03:23 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Great info!!!


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OfflineToxicManM
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Re: kombucha [Re: Suntzu]
    #906439 - 09/25/02 04:38 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

As far as the bacterial contamination bit, I was pretty much repeating from memory stuff I heard back when (95-97). When I looked I found not a lot more than you did. Here is the best compilation of anti-Kombucha information I found in a few minutes of searching (you need to scroll about halfway down, unless you read Dutch).

I can't find an actual example of somebody definitely getting sick or dying as a result of contamination of one of these cultures. I found examples of people getting lead poisoning from making it in an inappropriate container. The majority of cases I read about I would characterize as people who probably drank too much of it. There does appear to be a number of organic acids produced, and drinking large quantities of them apparently causes some people potentially serious problems.

Given the number of people who are using it, it is probably reasonably safe. I would avoid using it for extended periods of time, but I would say the same about any medication or herbal supplement or whatever one might care to call it.


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Happy mushrooming!


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Offlineaural
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Re: kombucha [Re: ToxicMan]
    #906909 - 09/25/02 11:01 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

When I was working as a winemaker,I accidently made a 10 ft diameter Kombucha!
We had one tank in the back of the room that I thought had been cleaned months before and was just sitting there empty.I happened to open it up,and it had several inches of spoiled wine in it.I tried to dump it down the drain,then came to a giant rubbery disk,2-3 inches thick.I did NOT make a healtful beverage out of it and consume it tho'!

About colloidal silver....
Several years ago,someone here (or maybe it was DroolDonkey) gave me instructions to make my own.A lifetime supply (literally) only costs a few dollars.
Of course it is not standardized like the commercial stuff,but it is cheap and fun to make.Anyone interested in instructions?


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Offlineaural
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Re: kombucha [Re: aural]
    #906913 - 09/25/02 11:07 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

In reply to:

It seems to have a slight alcohol content to it, my beer-brewing roommate offered to do specific gravity next transfer




Maybe you were just being sarcastic,but if not...that wont work.
Calculating alcohol from original SG and final SG is based on the assumptions that the majority of the solids in solution are fermentable sugars,and that as these sugars are consumed,the main product is alcohol.This would not be the case with Kombucha.


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Invisiblepsyconaut
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Re: kombucha [Re: aural]
    #907253 - 09/25/02 02:43 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Incase anyone is interested, I noticed Western Biologicals have starter cultures...

-psyco


--------------------
It may look like a button mushroom right now, but wait until you see how it grows!


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OfflineSuntzu
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Re: kombucha [Re: aural]
    #907306 - 09/25/02 03:13 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I think you might be right about the solids/fermentable sugar.  I thought that table sugar, completely dissolved, would give SG readings that would change as it was converted.  Now that you mention 'solids' I think you might be right.

I am pretty sure that table sugar can be converted to ethanol.  It's not much ethanol if any, though.

Toxicman--The cases that were most suspicous were the acidosis ones. . .I don't know enough about that condition to propose the number of 'other' potential causes.  The metal containers are certainly a bad idea.  Anyway, I'll keep my ear down, I'd like to compile *accurate* information on this thing.

MA, of course.  Let me know if you're up in the area [I predict early-mid October, this is a late rain season] and I'll do the same.  BTW, that pic was from awhile ago, that particular mat got to be 2 inches thick before I changed it.  After bottling the tea and letting it rest for a few weeks in the fridge, it fizzed like champagne when I opened it :smile: :smile: 

**oh yeah, for a gallon I've been using a hodgepodge of 3 cheap green tea bags [lipton], 2 cheap ginseng tea bags [Stash], and one bag of nice expensive Earl Grey [TeaHouse Kuan Yin] :smile:  Either 3/4 or 1 cup of table sugar, don't remember 


Edited by Suntzu (09/25/02 03:21 PM)


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Offlineaural
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Re: kombucha [Re: Suntzu]
    #907845 - 09/25/02 07:40 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

About the SG readings-
Sure,table sugar can be converted to ethanol-I'm just saying that in a mixed culture,most of the sugar is NOT being converted to ethanol,whereas in beer or wine,it is safe to assume that (virtually) all the sugar that is used is being coverted to alcohol (and CO2).

So-you could use SG readings as some measure of the vitality of a culture maybe...


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OfflineRuNE
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Re: kombucha [Re: Alexander]
    #2821844 - 06/23/04 07:29 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)


*bump*

I was going to make a post, but did a search first.  This seems to be an amazing find!  Being on a mushroom cultivation site, i think we know how to handle simple sterility quite well, so the one single negative aspect can be easily dealt with.

I found out about Kombucha by total accident today!  I'm amazed that i've stumbled across this info.  I'm gonna make some soon hopefully.

About the 'extended dosing', I think that the opposite of what you said would be proper. After extensive reading, it seems that a small amount (about 1-2 cups a day) on a constant basis keeps the heart, lungs, pretty much everything top notch.  This tea simply boosts the immune system.  Should keep cancer at bay too.
Users that have tried stopping their dosage have reported a return of old symptoms from such things as colitis and etc...

This looks really cool!   
I suggest everyone read up on it a bit.  It's very easy to make.


:sun:


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InvisiblePinback
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Re: kombucha [Re: RuNE]
    #2822304 - 06/23/04 10:42 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Here are the only two kombucha reviews I found on PubMed: 1, 2. Also a link to a death associated with kombucha: 3.


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OfflineRuNE
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Re: kombucha [Re: Pinback]
    #2822572 - 06/24/04 12:32 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)



Those are severly negative articles. 

The whole Pharm vs Herb scenario reminds me of the Gov. vs Drugs scenario.

It is extremely biased.
Here's the Kombucha FAQ. Scroll down to part 2 and read it. Then compare it to Part 3.  Notice the difference?
http://w3.trib.com/~kombu/PFAQ/homep.htm


:sun:


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~Happy sailing~


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