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 Suntzu
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 Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] 
#560821 - 02/23/02 04:42 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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After a couple failed attempts, I decided to try mixing the grubs directly in the spawn jar. Here are the critters, aren't they cute?
The culture wasn't exactly fresh, and Cordyceps doesn't seem to recover quickly after shaking anyway. . .so I was a bit surprised to see it jump off into the mealworms so vigorously. . .
Notice how the disturbed mycelium much prefers the insects to the grain itself.
Past experiments that failed:
1. Straight LIVE mealworms move around too much to get colonized very well. They also morph into beetles eventually.
2. Mealworms inoculated with mycelial slurry [shake and bake style] died very quickly and didn't colonize as expected.
So now comes the hard[er] part, providing an environment suitable for fruiting. I was considering removing the worms only, and planting them somewhat like sclerotia.
Any advice or ideas would be appreciated. . .
**Oh, I guess I should add the sordid details on how I prepared the grubs--They were sauteed for about 30 seconds in a pan of boiling water. My theory was that it would do a couple things--
mini-pastuerize the exoskeleton [some previous ones had molded]
soften the exoskeleton [host caterpillars have much softer skin]
There still was the issue of host specificity, but these jars seem to be evidence that hyperinoculating can overcome it.
Edited by Suntzu (02/23/02 05:40 PM)
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 Olgualion
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 Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Suntzu]
#561052 - 02/23/02 09:26 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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That is really awesome!!
I have been searching for info on cordyceps, and it seems as though they only grow naturally at elevations between 14,000 and 16,000 feet. I know that labratory cultivation is possible, but I think this is only mycelial cultivation. Do you know if any mushrooms have been produced under laboratory conditions? I am wondering if the altitute and the conditions associated with it (low pressure and thin air) are needed for obtaining actual mushrooms? Only a wild guess though.
Best of luck to you!
BTW - how hard was it to obtain a cordyceps culture?
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MeltingPenguin
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Suntzu]
#561180 - 02/24/02 12:32 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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meat eating myco, this is extremely interesting
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Suntzu
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: MeltingPenguin]
#562597 - 02/25/02 01:18 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Olgualion; I posted the same thing over at the FF and got some great information from Aaron, check it out----
http://www.theforestfloor.org/forum/ikonboard.cgi?s=3c7a861f390fffff;act=ST;f=11;t=206
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Suntzu
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Suntzu]
#564687 - 02/27/02 09:27 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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I found these links, I thought maybe someone might find them interesting:
First, a source for Silkworms!!!
http://www.mulberryfarms.com/index.php?page=products
Second, a company just a few hours' drive from here that is fruiting *some* kind of Cordyceps:
http://www.hotwaytech.com/english/cordyceps.html
Anyone up for a tour?
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Anno
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Suntzu]
#564700 - 02/27/02 09:56 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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I?d love to go, but I?m a couple of thousands of miles too far away.
But when you go, please don?t forget to ask them for a cordyceps culture and some substrate. 
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r05c03
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Anno]
#564961 - 02/27/02 04:40 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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So uh, what exactly do you want to grow this particular fungus for? Just curious.
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Olgualion
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: r05c03]
#564963 - 02/27/02 04:43 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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It's high pricetag, is one reason I'd be iinterested. Someone posted that 1 oz. is worth about 2 oz. of gold! 
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Anno
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Olgualion]
#565374 - 02/28/02 12:15 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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According to the above website, they go from 2000$-3000$ per 2 pounds.
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Suntzu
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Anno]
#565598 - 02/28/02 08:39 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Which will undoubtedly increase as the massive pickings continue. . . .
I still wish they would say what species they are cultivating at hotway.com;
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Anno
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Suntzu]
#565977 - 02/28/02 03:02 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Couldn?t you ask them?
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AzulAgave
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Suntzu]
#566351 - 02/28/02 09:54 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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I remember as a kid putting insects in the fridge. Putting the meal worms in the freezer prior to exposing to mycelium may slow their matabolism and pupa stage down long enough to provide the mycelium enough time to propagate on the meal worms. From the stuff I read in the links from this thread it seems the best way would be to get young meal worms and expose them to mycelium at an early stage. Then keep the temperature at 10-13C. Suntzu is there anyway I could get a culture from you.
Suntzu what type of agar do you maintain your cultures on?
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Suntzu
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: AzulAgave]
#567272 - 03/01/02 08:58 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yeah Anno, since they haven't responded to my emails, I think a pestering phone call is in order
I have 150 large silkworms coming to my doorstep! The dude was pretty interested in this. He asked what I was feeding, and when I told him a parasitic fungus he said "Now THAT'S unusual!". His primary clients are reptile owners.
He talked me into ordering a few tobacco hornworms; who knows, they grow HUGE and FAST; if they get colonized their sheer mass might favor fruiting.
One potential problem with the silkworms and hornworms is that they are soft and gushy. They will probably pop if I try the sauteeing technique. Mealworms are firm enough to handle this treatment.
Aaron pointed out something I think is very valid; a better route might be to get a multispore culture [via dried fruits, or someone's stock]. But just for shits and giggles I'm going forward on this with the culture at hand--by the way, public thanks, Anno!
Az., send me a PM. I had a disaster with my culture 'drawer' this week, but can probably help you out. I sort of switch between potato dextrose agar and cornmeal/starch/yeast extract agar. The cornmeal is actually outperforming the PDA, but they're both pretty damn good
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aaron
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Suntzu]
#567288 - 03/01/02 09:27 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Dry heat (oven roasting) processing silkworms or hornworms at about 195.degree. F. for about 24 hours, (to make them hard) it was just an idea.
Would like to here how it go's with the silkworms and hornworms and how they compare to the Mealworms?
Edited by aaron (03/01/02 11:31 PM)
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r05c03
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: MeltingPenguin]
#567579 - 03/02/02 08:26 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Here is some stuff I found at www.mushworld.com. Membership to this great info source is free, and it appears that there is a good deal of info waiting to be searched for.
Growing Conditions for Cordyceps species
Writer: Gwang-po Kim / Date :2000-07-16 / hits: 17
Cordyceps sinensis can be used as food and medicine. In China and Japan, this mushrooms are highly valued is medicine or health food.
Until recently, the supply of the Cordyceps relied mostly on harvests of naturally grown mushrooms; however, as demand for the mushrooms shows a constant increase in the world market, the existing supply has become scarce.
There is an active movement for research and development of the mushroom resource in the fields of artificial culture, liquid fermentation, and application of new techniques.
Through artificial cultivation of Cordyceps mushrooms, which is a very complicated and difficult process, it is not easy to have mycellium formed because the complex environmental conditions that affect the host insects' ecological surroundings directly or indirectly must be regulated precisely, not to mention the ecological conditions suitabl e for the mushrooms.
*On occasions change in temperature, to a lower degree, is necessary.
The Cordyceps bacterium prefer relatively low temperature, about 15~20 C, and form sclerotium at a degree between 10~20 C, and stroma at 14~25 C.
It demands higher temperature for the stroma to grow on the ground surface, about 26~32 C, and spores are released at 28~32 C.
*Humidity conditions should meet each of the following conditions.
- Air humidity 80~90% for growth, stroma formation, and releasing of spores.
- 50~80% air humidity, and water content of ground 40% for hibernation of the infected host insect.
- For the growth of mycellium in the host's body, 60~70% humidity.
- Sclerotium can be formed only in dry environments, at about 10~20% humidity.
* As for air conditions, most of the Cordyceps bacterium are aerobes, but for some facultative anaerobes, oxygen should be regulated.
*Different light conditions are demanded according to different growth stages.
- Light is not required for spore germination or for mycellial growth.
- For the formation of sclerotium and stroma, a little bit of light is required.
*Acidity conditions
- Cordyceps grow in low-acid conditions.
- Mycellial growth takes place between pH 5.0~6.5 acidity, and it shows the fastest growth rate at pH 6.0~6.3.
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Suntzu
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: r05c03]
#573338 - 03/06/02 05:58 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Silkworms.............
Poor little bastards are getting a nasty infection tonight
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oOjonahOo
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Suntzu]
#574104 - 03/09/02 08:52 AM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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well that was unexpected! man thats kinda gross....
you tried to inoculate live mealworms?
pretty cool experiment though too...good luck
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Tamrylin
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Suntzu]
#574503 - 03/09/02 07:29 PM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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dam.. so ur gonna fry those poor lil critters up and feed them to some mycelium?
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lycopodium
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on the medical side of things [Re: Tamrylin]
#582256 - 03/18/02 11:04 AM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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here are some interesting journal references that i've found, there were many more of interest but were published in japanese and chinese journals in the respective language
1: Shin KH, Lim SS, Lee SH, Lee YS, Cho SY. Related Articles
Antioxidant and immunostimulating activities of the fruiting bodies of Paecilomyces japonica, a new type of Cordyceps sp.
Ann N Y Acad Sci. 2001 Apr;928:261-73.
PMID: 11795517 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
2: Park JP, Kim SW, Hwang HJ, Yun JW. Related Articles
Optimization of submerged culture conditions for the mycelial growth and exo-biopolymer production by Cordyceps militaris.
Lett Appl Microbiol. 2001 Jul;33(1):76-81.
PMID: 11442820 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
3: Li SP, Li P, Dong TT, Tsim KW. Related Articles
Anti-oxidation activity of different types of natural Cordyceps sinensis and cultured Cordyceps mycelia.
Phytomedicine. 2001 May;8(3):207-12.
PMID: 11417914 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
4: Yamaguchi Y, Kagota S, Nakamura K, Shinozuka K, Kunitomo M. Related Articles
Antioxidant activity of the extracts from fruiting bodies of cultured Cordyceps sinensis.
Phytother Res. 2000 Dec;14(8):647-9.
PMID: 11114006 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
5: Bucci LR. Related Articles
Selected herbals and human exercise performance.
Am J Clin Nutr. 2000 Aug;72(2 Suppl):624S-36S. Review.
PMID: 10919969 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
6: Nikoh N, Fukatsu T. Related Articles, Nucleotide
Interkingdom host jumping underground: phylogenetic analysis of entomoparasitic fungi of the genus cordyceps.
Mol Biol Evol. 2000 Apr;17(4):629-38.
PMID: 10742053 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
7: Bok JW, Lermer L, Chilton J, Klingeman HG, Towers GH. Related Articles
Antitumor sterols from the mycelia of Cordyceps sinensis.
Phytochemistry. 1999 Aug;51(7):891-8.
PMID: 10423860 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
8: Zhu JS, Halpern GM, Jones K. Related Articles
The scientific rediscovery of a precious ancient Chinese herbal regimen: Cordyceps sinensis: part II.
J Altern Complement Med. 1998 Winter;4(4):429-57. Review.
PMID: 9884180 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
9: Zhu JS, Halpern GM, Jones K. Related Articles
The scientific rediscovery of an ancient Chinese herbal medicine: Cordyceps sinensis: part I.
J Altern Complement Med. 1998 Fall;4(3):289-303.
PMID: 9764768 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
10: Kuo YC, Tsai WJ, Shiao MS, Chen CF, Lin CY. Related Articles
Cordyceps sinensis as an immunomodulatory agent.
Am J Chin Med. 1996;24(2):111-25.
PMID: 8874668 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
11: Manabe N, Sugimoto M, Azuma Y, Taketomo N, Yamashita A, Tsuboi H, Tsunoo A, Kinjo N, Nian-Lai H, Miyamoto H. Related Articles
Effects of the mycelial extract of cultured Cordyceps sinensis on in vivo hepatic energy metabolism in the mouse.
Jpn J Pharmacol. 1996 Jan;70(1):85-8.
PMID: 8822093 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
12: Kiho T, Hui J, Yamane A, Ukai S. Related Articles
Polysaccharides in fungi. XXXII. Hypoglycemic activity and chemical properties of a polysaccharide from the cultural mycelium of Cordyceps sinensis.
Biol Pharm Bull. 1993 Dec;16(12):1291-3.
PMID: 8130781 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
13: Chen K, Li C. Related Articles
Recent advances in studies on traditional Chinese anti-aging materia medica.
J Tradit Chin Med. 1993 Sep;13(3):223-6, contd. Review.
PMID: 8246603 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
14: Yoshida J, Takamura S, Yamaguchi N, Ren LJ, Chen H, Koshimura S, Suzuki S. Related Articles
Antitumor activity of an extract of Cordyceps sinensis (Berk.) Sacc. against murine tumor cell lines.
Jpn J Exp Med. 1989 Aug;59(4):157-61.
PMID: 2601113 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
15: Ohmori T, Tamura K, Tsuru S, Nomoto K. Related Articles
Antitumor activity of protein-bound polysaccharide from Cordyceps ophioglossoides in mice.
Jpn J Cancer Res. 1986 Dec;77(12):1256-63.
PMID: 3102430 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
16: Yamada H, Kawaguchi N, Ohmori T, Takeshita Y, Taneya S, Miyazaki T. Related Articles
Structure and antitumor activity of an alkali-soluble polysaccharide from Cordyceps ophioglossoides.
Carbohydr Res. 1984 Jan 10;125(1):107-15.
PMID: 6704989 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
17: Ukai S, Kiho T, Hara C, Morita M, Goto A, Imaizumi N, Hasegawa Y. Related Articles
Polysaccharides in fungi. XIII. Antitumor activity of various polysaccharides isolated from Dictyophora indusiata, Ganoderma japonicum, Cordyceps cicadae, Auricularia auricula-judae, and Auricularia species.
Chem Pharm Bull (Tokyo). 1983 Feb;31(2):741-4. No abstract available.
PMID: 6883594 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
18: Kneifel H, Konig WA, Loeffler W, Muller R. Related Articles
Ophiocordin, an antifungal antibiotic of Cordyceps ophioglossoides.
Arch Microbiol. 1977 May 13;113(1-2):121-30.
PMID: 560831 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
19: Melling J, Belton FC, Kitching D, Stones WR. Related Articles
Production of pure cordycepin (3'-deoxyadenosine) from Cordyceps militaris.
J Pharm Pharmacol. 1972 Dec;24:Suppl:125P. No abstract available.
PMID: 4144844 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
20: Kaczka EA, Trenner NR, Arison B, Walker RW, Folkers K. Related Articles
Identification of cordycepin, a metabolite of Cordyceps militaris, as 3'-deoxyadenosine.
Biochem Biophys Res Commun. 1964;14:456-7. No abstract available.
PMID: 5836541 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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gray1
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Suntzu]
#597565 - 04/03/02 11:37 AM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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any progress?
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Suntzu
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: gray1]
#597595 - 04/03/02 12:08 PM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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My attemps with the silkworms failed. They don't like to be pan-boiled at all. So it looks like mealworms are the way to go, at least for now. . .
Those ones that were colonized are sitting in a container of soil mixture, having been refrigerated for a week or so. They're getting moisture now, but no obvious changes yet.
I need to make a few hundred mealworm-mummies before I can make any serious variations/duplicates of experimental parameters. . .will get to it one of these days
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DinoMyc
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Suntzu]
#598962 - 04/04/02 07:06 PM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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hey, I really enjoy seeing people experimenting!
for worms, check out this guy
http://www.wormman.com/
as far as I know he is cheap and reliable..
did you try live innoculation of those guys?
did you try of a little h2o2 bath instead of heat?
beautiful!
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Suntzu
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: DinoMyc]
#599462 - 04/05/02 09:35 AM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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Cool site; Fortunately meal'worms' are in ready supply at the local pet store. I don't think the annelid-type worms would work so well as they're not insects. . .
Am planning on buying some more this weekend
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r05c03
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Suntzu]
#599856 - 04/05/02 05:10 PM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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Hi. None of my references mention if Cordyceps produces conidia. If theu do produce conidia, could you try to produce conidia on agar, make a spore suspension and spray mulberry leaves which are then quickly eaten by the silk worms? Lacking spores could you fragment hyphae in a blender and apply those as a suspension to leaves and feed them to silk worms? If you kept the leaf chamber humid the fragmented hyphae should survive long enough to be eaten and possiblly cause infection. What about collecting spore and mixing them with fine ground corundum and rubbing the corrundum on the surface of living, soft little silk worms. The corundum is used mixed with spores or virus particle to damage leaf surfaces in plant pathology research to make infections take easier. Perhaps corundum could cause similar no fatal injury to silkworms while making them more susceptible to infection.
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DreaMaTrix
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: r05c03]
#600325 - 04/06/02 03:37 AM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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Anybody have a link to, or post a picture of the fruit??
This is very interesting, keep up the good work/experiments.
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Suntzu
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: DreaMaTrix]
#600564 - 04/06/02 01:15 PM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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Not a very good close-up or anything, just a quick google search. Seems that most pictures I've seen have a single fruitbody per larva.
R- Very good points, from the stuff I've looked at, Cordyceps is closely related to/confused with a species of Paecilomyces. That species definitely produces conidia, I've seen them under a scope! It seems odd to me that a fungus would have two sporulating 'phases', as it definitely sporulates after 'macro'-fruiting on larvae. If it does sporulate on agar, I've been handling this culture all wrong!!!!
One of the biggest pains with the silkworms is a)keeping them warm enough [though this may change with spring weather] and b) keeping their food from molding. The last thing any of us need is another contamination vector!
The ones I got came with this chow, which was basically a powder that you hydrate and microwave. I suppose you could try inoculating this stuff.
Right now, I'm leaning towards the super-mealworms as pictured in the beginning. They're the same size as adult silkworms and seem to colonize well. Other species of Cordyceps are successfully being fruited on non-larvae based substrates, so the species specificity is likely not the area on which to focus efforts. Could be wrong.
The real trick in this whole process is POST-colonization. From aaron's references it sounds not unlike morel cultivation--sclerotia-like development and initation.
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Suntzu
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Suntzu]  1
#600569 - 04/06/02 01:20 PM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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Oh, and I forgot to mention one other reason for not being so hot on silkworms. . .
Inside the package from Mullberry Farms was a piece of paper saying that the ?USDA?--some agency could come to the shipping address 'during reasonable hours' and check to see what was being done with these potential environmental pests.
Homey don't play that.
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r05c03
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Suntzu]
#600583 - 04/06/02 01:50 PM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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Hi as far as the fungus making two different sprore types, it is actually common. Especially for ascomycetes like Cordyceps. Many produce asexual spores in the tips of vegetative hyphae. This is the kind that would grow in culture. The second type of spore is the sexual spore. In cordyceps this is the spore that is produced from the larva. The thing is I have not been able to confirm if cordyceps makes an asexual spore, and if it does, whether or not it requires special conditions to form them, such as a light cycle or special nutrition. Silkworms eat mulbarry leaves, so come spring you might be able to get mulberry leaves, they are quite common in the suburbs of most of america, and mold might not be as problematic on those. As far as the USDA (United State Department of Agriculture), you have point......damn Feds.
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Suntzu
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: r05c03]
#600694 - 04/06/02 04:30 PM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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Damn, you're right. . .other examples are the dimorphic fungi. Well, someone must know. In any case, the asexual spores shouldn't produce anything genetically 'novel', should they? I mean, a colonized grub is a colonized grub, whether it is vegetative hyphae or an asexual spore that does the job, I assume . . .?
Also, I haven't read anything specific about the natural mechanism of infection. Is it through consumption? Or is it through attachment and penetration of the exoskeleton? Now that you bring it up, consumption makes more sense, but in these birdseed jars, I'm certain it was penetration.
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aaron
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 Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Suntzu]
#600859 - 04/06/02 09:08 PM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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I haven't read anything specific about the natural mechanism of infection. Me either?
But catepillar physicalogy{i'm a bad speller}. All catepillars have openings, that are evenly spaced along the body, that can open and close. {like a stomata on the underside of a leaf} they open into tunnels that go throughout the whole body for air. I think the spores enters through one of these openings germinates grows through these open tunnels in the catepillar, and the catepillar dies from suffication. bummer
Edited by aaron (04/07/02 12:39 AM)
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AssHumper10K
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Suntzu]
#601114 - 04/07/02 05:23 AM (22 years, 7 months ago) |
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Why not bake them?
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r05c03
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: AssHumper10K]
#601166 - 04/07/02 07:11 AM (22 years, 7 months ago) |
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I believe that I read somewhere that the presence of certain bacteria inside the host insect help with the infection/fruiting process. So baking, or anything may not work for this reason. As far as the post above, you may very well be correct, the spiracles on insect may be entry points for spores. I am not sure how large they are though.
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aaron
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: r05c03]
#601270 - 04/07/02 10:50 AM (22 years, 7 months ago) |
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The opening can be seen with the eye, there are big enough for a spores to inter.
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ChromeCrow
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: DreaMaTrix]
#601502 - 04/07/02 05:24 PM (22 years, 7 months ago) |
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SumGuy
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Suntzu]
#606135 - 04/12/02 06:41 AM (22 years, 7 months ago) |
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I watched an interesting documentary the other day on how wasps reproduce and they too need a living host. They sting a caterpillar and inject it with thousands of eggs but the caterpillar is still alive but paralyzed and eventually the eggs hatch and grow right off the still living but paralyzed squiggly fuzzy worm. Perhaps if you could find something non toxic to paralyze worms with you could directly innoculate them. directly and bury them. I dont really know too much about this so I could be way off but from what I read you need a living host. This just triggered in my brain when I was watching the documentary.
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MeltingPenguin
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Suntzu]
#607755 - 04/14/02 02:06 AM (22 years, 7 months ago) |
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I recently got hooked up with a culture (thanks dude :-) )
I'm going to try and use either kedimine(sp?) or amanita solution, to coat the oats, in order to keep the meal worms sedeated everytime they try to eat it. Hopefully this will keep them spaced long enough to get infected, and won't hurt the cordyceps mycelium....hopefully.
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ChromeCrow
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Suntzu]
#611228 - 04/17/02 07:29 PM (22 years, 7 months ago) |
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hmmmmmmmm, this is just a suggestion, and i will try it with my culture and post results. but on suntzu's silkworm link, they have silkworm eggs garrunteed to hatch, and silkworm chow. if you were to take 1/2 the substrate, and mix it in with the chow, place it on top of the normal substrate, and lay the eggs on top. or just under the chow/sub. wouldnt this help with a couple of the problems you have encountered?
1) the worms morph into beetles eventually--- doing it this way, you would have maximum time before they morph
2) the live worms eat the grain before they get inocculated--- the chow would give the mycelium more time to "grab onto" the worms
like i said i will be trying this, and will let ya'all know
btw, thanks for the culture!
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Edited by ChromeCrow (04/17/02 07:40 PM)
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r05c03
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: ChromeCrow]
#612366 - 04/18/02 09:19 PM (22 years, 7 months ago) |
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They do not morph into beetles. The morph into moths.
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Suntzu
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: r05c03]
#612846 - 04/19/02 11:02 AM (22 years, 7 months ago) |
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Right, it's the mealworms that turn into beetles.
I've pretty much decided to stick with mealworms. The ease of pasteurization, availability, storage [they can hang out in the fridge for many weeks in little more than sawdust], make them quite suitable for experimentation.
I have tons of that chow, someone mentioned it might be a good agar ammendment, I'd have to agree but haven't tried it.
If you order those silkworms, two things to watch for:
1) the warning about surprise visits
2) the info on reducing the chances of the chow getting mold; That's a real downer and a real stinky mess.
Seeing some other Cordyceps species successfully cultivated on non-insect media make me think it's likely possible with sinensis, but even more likely that other insect species will work.
Anyway, just getting back into the Cordyceps game here, interested to see what other people can come up with.
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r05c03
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 Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Suntzu]
#613106 - 04/19/02 05:09 PM (22 years, 7 months ago) |
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I am not worried about surpirse visits. But given my current fungal projects and of course normal life stuff too I do not know if I could give the cordyceps the attention I think it will need. I think lepidoteran larvae will be best. Also, remember when we talked and you said that you had Paecilomyces contamination? I was reading some papers and they mentioned that Paecilomyces is the asexual spore producing stage of Cordyeps. They are the same organism. They have different names because they were discovered seperately. Did you already no this stuff?
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zeronio
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Suntzu]
#1061489 - 11/18/02 01:21 AM (22 years, 22 days ago) |
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Did you give up your experiments with Cordyceps?
I wonder if mycelium grows only on proteine based substrates? It seems unlikely that this fungus spreads only from insect to insect. Maybe it has an asexual stage (like other ascomycetes) where it grows normally in the soil and only when a dead insect is encountered start to form sclerotia and sexual fruit bodies.
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Anonymous
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 Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: zeronio]
#1061759 - 11/18/02 04:09 AM (22 years, 22 days ago) |
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this is one of the coolest threads i've seen to date...
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r05c03
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: zeronio]
#1063251 - 11/18/02 03:54 PM (22 years, 22 days ago) |
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They do indeed have an asexual stage. The name of the imperfect stage is Paeciliomyces or something like. Atleast, that is what I found when I looked into this manner sometime last year.
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zeronio
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: r05c03]
#1064840 - 11/19/02 01:01 AM (22 years, 21 days ago) |
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I found something. I have an impression that there are still mysteries in Cordyceps life cycle. The Paecilomyces was once placed in Penicillum genus. How does Cordyceps culture look like? Is it blue-green?
http://www.nju.edu.cn/foode/jun/b3.htm
In reply to:
Five bavterial strains hace been found daring its imperfect stage,They are as follows:
1.Mortieralla hepiali
2.Cephalosporium sinensis
3.Paecilomyces hepiali
4.P.sinensis
5.Hirsutella sinensis
Products made form the above 1.2.3 have been put into market,and the first,second third strains have been used in deep fermentation.
Some links I found:
http://www.naturalproducts.org/inpr/monographs_pdf/cordy_mono_A01.pdf
http://www.entomology.wisc.edu/mbcn/kyf403.html
http://www.botany.utoronto.ca/ResearchLabs/MallochLab/Malloch/Moulds/Paecilomyces.html
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r05c03
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: zeronio]
#1074640 - 11/21/02 05:31 PM (22 years, 19 days ago) |
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Yeah, except I am not sure he refers to them as bavteria strains. The species he mentions are fungi in the imperfect group which is formed soley on the basis of them lacking a sexual stage. Sometimes they end up with a name for the sexual stage and imperfect stage because each is identified and characterized by a different person or at a different time. As far as Paecilomyces being a penicillium sp., it may have been at one time based on morphology or some other identifier such as genetic sequences, but these things change from time to time. It seems the researchers are found changing names...lumpers and splitters..
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Suntzu
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: zeronio]
#1076665 - 11/22/02 11:07 AM (22 years, 18 days ago) |
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Zeronio; I should have updated this awhile back, my colonized grubs didn't stay colonized. I think the insides were not taken over by mycelium, or at least not taken over enough. They deliquesced into something like a mushy french fry. This took a few months, so if the conditions/soil were better-formulated it may have been a different story.
I don't know if I updated the whole silkworm fiasco, but I don't think I'm going to try that again. Well maybe. Most of them. . .deliquesced. They need an incubator of some sort, at least up north. At the time my incubators were occupied, insect-free zones
I think cordyceps can be fruited off of non-insect substrate. There is a company up in vancouver that fruits a cordyceps off of a formulated substrate. Before I invest any time in that I'd like to have a spore source. I don't know the original source of the culture, if it's from an insect-fruitbody it might have its genetic mind made up already.
Paecilomyces does look similar to penicillium, though they're easy to distinguish. I forget the term for the finger-like projections, both have them with chains at the ends. It's easy to see how they would originally relate the two. But it's all about the DNA; What's interesting is the possibility that cordyceps and paecilomyces are the same thing, two separate fruiting cycles. Many fungi have the asexual plus sexual thing going [so different from us ] and some of the most interesting of those are the systemic bad boys that produce those mycopathology photos that still creep me out. Just a cooincidence that a lot of the potential pathogenic ones [to people or insect] are dimorphic fungi? Even candida falls into this category somewhat.
It could just be that Paec/Cord. are so closely related that the molecular knife can't distinguish them yet. Haven't read much on the subject lately.
Stage 2 still elusive; may try again soon;
Edited by Suntzu (11/22/02 11:13 AM)
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zeronio
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Suntzu]
#1081232 - 11/24/02 05:40 AM (22 years, 16 days ago) |
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Spores are probably very hard to get, but they must be the key to success.
I brought this thread up because I had an idea that maybe they don't spread only from insect to insect - they could have a more complex life cycle. I read about an plant pathogen fungus that changes 4 hosts and was once thought to be 4 different species.
How well does your culture grow on agar, grain or other non-protein substrates?
P.S. Don't give up. Your experiments are very interesting!
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r05c03
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Suntzu]
#1081353 - 11/24/02 09:16 AM (22 years, 16 days ago) |
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>>Paecilomyces does look similar to penicillium, though they're easy to distinguish. I forget the term for the finger-like projections, both have them with chains at the ends
The finger things are phailides
>>What's interesting is the possibility that cordyceps and paecilomyces are the same thing, two separate fruiting cycles.
Yes, from what I have read they are like other ascomycetes in that they produce asexual spores, and then for whatever reason (contact with other mating types, environmental conditions etc) it forms those large snake like stroma that contain the structures that produce the sexual spores.
Suntzu, I still have the culture you sent me last year. Like a slacker I have not gotten around to doing much experimentation. However, I am still believing that LIVE insect larvae need to actuall ingest some sort of propagating unit such as asexual spores (conidia). Further I think that it the fungus does not really start doing much, or atleast does not go into fruiting mode util the larvae pupates, at least most of the time. It would be nice if some one could hack those canadian guys and get their secret mix.....is it patented?
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Suntzu
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: r05c03]
#1261236 - 01/30/03 07:54 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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Well, I'm getting around to a little mad science again. Here's the plan, would like some feedback from those who have been incredibly informative so far
I'm going to break down and order some more silkworms. I still have quite a bit of the chow left. This could take a little time as I can't get started until March or so.
I am also going to order a few grams of whole 'wild' cordyceps from this place:
http://www.ancientway.com/Pages/Cordyceps.html
There should be 'infective' material in the tips, yes? No?
Two inoculations: First onto antibiotic agar, Second, a bit of it ground up and mixed in with the silkworm chow. This will [hopefully] give an internal inoculation as described earlier in this thread. I may try mealworms alongside, unsure.
This is going to require nurturing the silkworms a lot longer than I had before, a 10 gallon aquarium is the plan.
As far as inducing sclerotic conditions, the best I can come up with is a container put into the refrigerator. At least one of the links above has info on this. . .cool temperatures, low rH.
If the multispore culture attempt on agar is successful, I'd be willing to send some of the growth out to fellow experimenters. . .
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r05c03
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Suntzu]
#1261428 - 01/30/03 08:46 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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Yeah, the ascospores should be in the tips, analogous to basidiospores from a mushroom.
I have seen picutres of fruitifications from the both catepillars and pupae. I always thought you could just bury pupae in some potting mix or vermiculite or something. Who knows.
do they form sclerotia?
I am thinking multispore is the way to go with this too.
What fun! Good luck
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r05c03
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: r05c03]
#1261475 - 01/30/03 08:55 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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Ya know, you might want to crush some up of the material in water and let the heavy stuff sink, The spores should stay more suspended you could then inoculate the plates with the water. Or, if you have the means, take the water off and concentrate the spores by centrifugation. Do you have a scope?
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r05c03
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: r05c03]
#1261496 - 01/30/03 08:58 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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thescientist
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Suntzu]
#1262853 - 01/30/03 05:01 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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cordyceps often attacks the pupae of Lepidoptera that are just under the surface of the ground. the fruit body sprouts out of the ground. perhaps let some of the pillars pupate then give it to them hard.you said it was odd that a mush has 2 sporulating phases. MANY fungi have sexual and asexual sporulation phases which are quite distinct. This makes it difficult to identify macro or microfungi that have 2 morphologically distinct spore bearing structures.
good luck, most importantly have fun
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Anno
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Suntzu]
#1765069 - 07/31/03 04:39 AM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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From http://www.mushworld.com/medicine/view.asp?cata_id=6200&vid=1542 (must be logged in)
"Growing Conditions for Cordyceps species
Writer: Gwang-po Kim / Date :2000-07-16 / hits: 245
Cordyceps sinensis can be used as food and medicine. In China and Japan, this mushrooms are highly valued is medicine or health food.
Until recently, the supply of the Cordyceps relied mostly on harvests of naturally grown mushrooms; however, as demand for the mushrooms shows a constant increase in the world market, the existing supply has become scarce.
There is an active movement for research and development of the mushroom resource in the fields of artificial culture, liquid fermentation, and application of new techniques.
Through artificial cultivation of Cordyceps mushrooms, which is a very complicated and difficult process, it is not easy to have mycellium formed because the complex environmental conditions that affect the host insects' ecological surroundings directly or indirectly must be regulated precisely, not to mention the ecological conditions suitabl e for the mushrooms.
*On occasions change in temperature, to a lower degree, is necessary.
The Cordyceps bacterium prefer relatively low temperature, about 15~20 C, and form sclerotium at a degree between 10~20 C, and stroma at 14~25 C.
It demands higher temperature for the stroma to grow on the ground surface, about 26~32 C, and spores are released at 28~32 C.
*Humidity conditions should meet each of the following conditions.
- Air humidity 80~90% for growth, stroma formation, and releasing of spores.
- 50~80% air humidity, and water content of ground 40% for hibernation of the infected host insect.
- For the growth of mycellium in the host's body, 60~70% humidity.
- Sclerotium can be formed only in dry environments, at about 10~20% humidity.
* As for air conditions, most of the Cordyceps bacterium are aerobes, but for some facultative anaerobes, oxygen should be regulated.
*Different light conditions are demanded according to different growth stages.
- Light is not required for spore germination or for mycellial growth.
- For the formation of sclerotium and stroma, a little bit of light is required.
*Acidity conditions
- Cordyceps grow in low-acid conditions.
- Mycellial growth takes place between pH 5.0~6.5 acidity, and it shows the fastest growth rate at pH 6.0~6.3. "
From http://www.mushworld.com/medicine/view.asp?cata_id=6200&vid=336 (must be logged in)
"The Life of Caterpilar Fungi and Its Cultivation
Writer: Hye-young Lee / Date :1999-01-01 / hits: 117
The size and shape of Caterpilar fungi
Because Caterpilar fungi vary greatly in shape and size, we will only discuss Caterpilar fungi that belong to the Ascomycetes class. The fruit bodies of the mushrooms consist of head parts and parts that look like sacks, and the head parts come in various shapes of a circle, a club, a cotton swab stick, coral reef, noodles, and a long oval. The length of the mushrooms also differ greatly, from only a few mm to longer than 10cm, and the color shows a wide variety of red, yellow, purple, black, green, white, orange, and olive. Some of the mushrooms are very soft and tender, while others are tough and solid on the surface.
Where can we find wild Caterpilar fungi?
There are some Caterpilar fungi that are found only in 3,000~4,000m high, mountainous regions like "Cordyceps sinensis", and there are others, that can be found in mountains not far from cities like "Cordyceps nutans". However, even if we go to places where Caterpilar fungi might grow, it is extremely difficult to spot them not only because of their tiny size, but also because the habitats of the mushrooms require very fastidious, complicated conditions. In other words, Caterpilar fungi are found near clean, humid valleys which are shadowed with broadleaf trees, and have humus soil with a layer of fallen leaves.
Some of the Caterpilar fungi that parasite on ground beetles, or larvae or imagoes of butterflies can be found in tree trunks, and the ones that parasite on ants, spiders, and dragonflies can be gathered from branches and leaves.
What season of the year do Caterpilar fungi develop the most?
Caterpilar fungi, after entering their hosts, absorb nutritional substances inside the bodies, and eventually form internal sclerotium that wholly occupy the inner parts of the hosts' bodies. When the time comes for mushrooms to form, the sclerotium grow into mushrooms on the outer skin of the dead insects.
The season suitable for mushroom formation would be from early summer to early autumn when temperature and humidity both increase, and especially the rainy season, when mushroom growth is accelerated.
Usually 1~2 months after the bacterium come out of the host insects' bodies, saprophytic spores or ascospores, located on the head parts of the mushrooms, are spread by wind and infect other insects to form new mushrooms.
The life of Caterpilar fungi
The process through which Caterpilar fungi eventually become mushrooms starts when the fungi, scattered on the ground stick to soft outer layers of respiratory, digestive organs and joints of live insects. The spores that have stuck to insect parts take out germinating pipes and penetrate through the outer skin into the bodies, and multiply themselves into countless mycelium, absorbing nutritional substances like protein, and fat from their hosts. By this time, the host insects die, and the corpses harden like mummies. The hypha in the dead hosts' bodies form hard sclerotium, and next year, when favorable conditions are provided, evolve into beautiful mushrooms.
The new generation of Caterpilar fungi begins, when the saprophytic spores or ascospores located on the head parts of the mushrooms, taken away by impact factors like wind, stick to other living insects' skin.
Artificial cultivation of Caterpilar fungus using insects
Caterpilar fungi generate, when they enter living host insects' bodies. For artificial mass-production of these insect-parasitic mushrooms, first of all, we need the technology to mass-produce insects, and secondly, we ought to have superior one that easily grow on the mass-produced insects. Thirdly, we must have the technology to form the mushrooms on the insects, and then, we need facilities and amenities for cultivation and production. These provided, artificial cultivation of Caterpilar fungi is possible.
Paecilomyces japonica
Cultivation of Caterpilar fungi using silkworms
Silk-reeling, which consists of raising silkworms at home, producing cocoons, and obtaining silk from the worms to make silk fabric, has been one of Korea's traditional industries. The silkworms are originally used for producing cocoons, but since they are insects, they can also be used as host insects for Caterpilar fungi production. Therefore, farmers in the silk-reeling business, with their technology and facilities, would be able to cultivate Cordyceps mushrooms well enough if they obtain spawn and fruit-body formation technology."
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Anno
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Suntzu]
#2378783 - 02/26/04 09:30 AM (20 years, 9 months ago) |
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So how are your worms doing?
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Suntzu
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Anno]
#2388841 - 02/29/04 12:16 PM (20 years, 9 months ago) |
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I haven't done much more with the culture I have; There are several doubts about what life stage of the organism is necessary to form the insect 'sclerotia'. I'd be a lot more confident if I knew the point source of this culture, and that it was closer to the original isolation. I suspect this culture has been passed around a lot, and indeed in my own hands its character has begun to change. This is how the jars colonize now:
The past two or three times the grain jars have done this. I don't think the jars are any more full, though I suppose it's possible. Anyway, my suspicion is that the culture is changing somehow. So before I try anything with silkworm larvae again [which is quite an endeavor in itself] I really want to have a multispore inoc. I tried to culture from some dried cordyceps I ordered, but no growth. Not a big surprise, I suppose.
Anyone have access to *fresh* cordyceps fruits?
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Speeker
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 Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Suntzu]
#2388973 - 02/29/04 01:21 PM (20 years, 9 months ago) |
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an interesting patent about using silkworm as a host insect.
Cultivation of Paecilomyces sp. using silkworms
Cordyceps ophioglossoides
more patents:
A List of Patents Concerning Cordyceps sp
(at mushworld.com , must register)
Edited by speeker (03/01/04 03:28 PM)
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Speeker
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Speeker]
#2406084 - 03/07/04 11:13 AM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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Inspiring Cordyceps spp images!
Cordyceps fruiting on rice cakes as well as on silkworm pupa cakes. 
Image MushWorld
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Anno
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Speeker]
#2406089 - 03/07/04 11:28 AM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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Anonymous
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Anno]
#2407075 - 03/08/04 12:47 PM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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So hear are my thoughts. In nature they need a dry spell to form the "sclerotia" systs that then turn into the fruit body maybe during some humid time. I also was wondering, since these fungi feed on crude protene and fats if they could be cutivated on some media we havnt thought up yet maybe some kinda new agar made for growin bacteria. And I think some of these fungi are very insect specie specific. And since its an infectus bacteria why not make a liquid mycelium syringe with a super small needle and manualy infect each lil critter. then return them to a aquarium where they can live and die in a somewhat natural enviroment. 
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Suntzu
Geek
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Posts: 1,396
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Anno]
#2407173 - 03/08/04 01:06 PM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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Holy baloney, I've never seen that pic before. I'll have to delve into mushworld to get the specifics. WOW!!
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Anonymous
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Suntzu]
#2407353 - 03/08/04 01:45 PM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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culture medi aprepared from rice, corn, rice husks, silhworm pupa powder, water , glucose, peptone, potassium dihydrogen phosphate , magnesium sulfate, triammonium citrate abd V b1. Was maybe used for that aoustanding flush. That was a recipe I found on Mushworld.
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Speeker
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 901
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Suntzu]
#3740595 - 02/06/05 12:33 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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In this article is info about Cordyceps cultivation:
THE HYBRIDIZATION OF CORDYCEPS SINENSIS STRAINS
They use snake venom as a hybridization agent!
more hybridization/fusion related posts:
search results for query: fusion
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ATWAR
Connoisseur
Registered: 01/26/03
Posts: 1,640
Loc: #108768 in line...
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Speeker]
#3743202 - 02/06/05 10:43 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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"The agar used for this hybridization is an Aloha Medicinals Inc. proprietary agar named R7 Agar, consisting of malt extract, activated carbon, minerals and humus ? the carbon-rich ash residue from a coal burning industrial process"
2.1 L Distilled Water
50 g Light Malt Extract
34 g Agar
10 g Humus
5 g Activated carbon
1 g MgSO4
10 ml 1% KOH solution
I am curious to know if cordyceps spores will germinate readily on agar or not. This article says nothing about it. They used "available" strains... Available from where? (without paying an arm and a leg for one)
I read that article awhile back researching cordyceps, and thought SNAKE VENOM?
Yeah, that should be easy to acquire... Risk my life to grow a mushroom...
I think not... I am no Terry Erwin...
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To give is to live...
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Food
---Beast---
Registered: 12/10/01
Posts: 390
Loc: Siberia
Last seen: 18 years, 8 months
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: ATWAR]
#3808340 - 02/20/05 07:48 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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So cool - that first picture of the cordyceps eating the bugs . Coool .
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--------mushworld.com-----More info than you can throw a stick at-
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cricket
Lord Cricket
Registered: 08/29/03
Posts: 974
Loc: in my house, in front of ...
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Food]
#3810200 - 02/21/05 09:15 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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Snake venom is easier to obtain then you think. I have two spiecies of cobras, seven spiecies of rattlesnakes, and two african vipers in my basement right now.
Has anyone tried this with crickets? Or shed skins from crickets?
I had a fungal infection wipe out most of a colony of crickets. I did not try to ID it but it produced small pin shaped fuiting bodies on the carcasess.
I had a plastic trash can with wet gravel on the bottom. I used 2 inch pieces of pvc pipe, and cardboard disks stacked to make several levels. (like a highrise apatment) After a few months I noticed a Mushie smell and no crickets. As I unstacked the cardboard disks I found two layers covered with dead and dying adult crickets. The young crickets looked a little fuzzy but they were hatching and surviving untill they reached adult size. They must have had time to breed at least once because I had a constaint supply of babies showing up.
I'm not sure if it had anything to do with it but some of the boxes I used were from fruit boxes shipped from Asia.
I never had this problem with all American boxes.
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I tried to leave my signature but it didn't work...
By the way... Does anybody know how to get sharpie markers off of a computer screen?
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cricket
Lord Cricket
Registered: 08/29/03
Posts: 974
Loc: in my house, in front of ...
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: cricket]
#3832840 - 02/25/05 11:58 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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Anything?
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I tried to leave my signature but it didn't work...
By the way... Does anybody know how to get sharpie markers off of a computer screen?
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ATWAR
Connoisseur
Registered: 01/26/03
Posts: 1,640
Loc: #108768 in line...
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: cricket]
#3841987 - 02/27/05 03:40 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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The original culture that Suntzu had was found to be a mislabeled culture, and was most likely a mold of some sorts (I can't remember the specifics, and I can't post PM's). It appears there will be little development in this arena (on the Shroomery that is) until someone obtains a "real" culture. They appear to be difficult to come by, especially at a cheap price that an experimenter can afford...
I am still considering trying to obtain some intact specimens of cordyceps in dried form to collect spores from. The only problem I see is that the spores germinate on contact with the living host (or inside it?), then go on to fruit from its carcass. I have no idea if the spores would germinate on agar without some type of special preparation. I have done little research on this since the culture was found to be mislabeled. But, I am still very interested in this species...
To get it in culture is still my biggest hurdle...
At least one site I found has a picture of mycelium:
Quote:
Growth in culture (PCA) obtained from germinating ascospores or conidia; colony slow-growing, mycelium at first whitish, soon turning orange yellow, partly submerged in agar, after 3 to 4 weeks producing aerial mycelium including dense, radially arranged whitish to pale yellowish fascicles of hyphae, which produce verticillate hyaline phialidic conidiophores repeatedly, branches of conidiogenous cells aggregated into feather-like synnemata up to 15 mm long, phialides 4-6.5 x 2.3-3.3 mm, flask-shaped with a sharply narrowed, elongate neck, sympodially proliferating. Conidia narrowly cylindrical to fusiform, 3.2-5.0 x 0.8-1.0 mm.
http://www.uio.no/conferences/imc7/NFotm99/August99.htm
Care to collect some venom for me?
Without envenomating yourself?
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To give is to live...
Edited by ATWAR (02/27/05 09:17 PM)
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Corporal Kielbasa
Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,235
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: ATWAR]
#3843900 - 02/27/05 08:54 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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Why wouldnt the spores germinate? Its readily available nutrients. Give the mycelia what it needs as in nutrition and watch it grow. Think of the dish itself as the exoskeleton.
That doesnr look like any mycelia I have ever seen. If you germinate spores please keep one aside id love to check that out.
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ATWAR
Connoisseur
Registered: 01/26/03
Posts: 1,640
Loc: #108768 in line...
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Quote:
SHEIKofSHIITAKE said:
Why wouldnt the spores germinate? Its readily available nutrients. Give the mycelia what it needs as in nutrition and watch it grow.
With some species it is not always that simple.
Take the chanterelle for example.
In this case I hope it is...
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To give is to live...
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Speeker
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 901
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: ATWAR]
#3845095 - 02/28/05 12:34 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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korins
Antisocialite
Registered: 02/21/05
Posts: 221
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Suntzu]
#3848401 - 02/28/05 06:23 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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Did you ever make any more progress Suntzu?
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Suntzu
Geek
Registered: 10/14/99
Posts: 1,396
Last seen: 4 months, 11 days
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: korins]
#3882157 - 03/07/05 10:48 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Not without a real Cordyceps! I tried swabbing some puchased cordyceps fruitbodies onto agar without success. Someone gave me a link to the 'real deal', but this guy wanted WAY too much money for a culture [and how do you trust it anyway??].
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kenndeb
Stranger
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Suntzu]
#8483247 - 06/04/08 11:20 AM (16 years, 6 months ago) |
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when and if I ever get a pure culture of cordyceps going, I was planing on using grubs collected from under logs in the woods or out of the lawn...perhaps growing the culture in a milo/soil media with the grubs being introduced shortly after inoculation...
as far as snake venom..there are several biochem companies that sell it..I just got some in last week...
one last note...I posted a new thread(perhaps I should just have posted here) Cordyceps militaris cultivation
#8481790 - 06/03/08 11:27 PM
I could really use some input...thanks
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bioasi
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: Suntzu]
#10487002 - 06/11/09 08:24 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Please can you help me to find the culture of cordyceps and try to grow them ,please it is all most impossible to find the culture, i hope you share the fun of it.please
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jjb007
Registered: 10/03/08
Posts: 338
Loc: Near Philly
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: bioasi]
#10487498 - 06/11/09 10:55 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
bioasi said:
Please can you help me to find the culture of cordyceps and try to grow them ,please it is all most impossible to find the culture, i hope you share the fun of it.please
This post is 7 years old so you may not get many replies...
You may want to try the marketplace forum (which you don't get access to until your a member for 3 months or have a certain amount of posts, I dont recall which it is)
Or post your own post in the gourmet forum...
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vonswarrior
Vonswarrior
Registered: 06/11/06
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Re: Cordyceps, stage one complete! [pics] [Re: bioasi]
#10487633 - 06/11/09 11:34 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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bioasi
I would suggest try to grow something easier like oyster mushrooms, if you are a beginner, growing Cordyceps ain't easy to grow even for the most experienced,I have not seen anyone here that ever had success growing cordyceps, there will be a few members if you ask them that will share you a oyster wedge .
Henry
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