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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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What is the true self?
    #1629240 -

Most people define who they see in the mirror as the self. This is a common illusion in the minds of modern humanity. To find the true self one has to look much deeper in order to perceive the true nature of self. Look in the mirror, the material eyes in which you perceive the world and the arms in which you interact with the world are made of nothing but matter. The human body is simply an inanimate object that the mind uses in order to interact in a 3D world, animating the body and giving the body life. As many people in the medical profession see, you can keep the human body phyically alive but without mind there is no life. Consciousness is the root to our being. Without consciousness there is no being because there would be nothing to perceive the material world. This human body is not the true self as we ignorantly see it to be. In order to find the true self one has to look much deeper for there is another reality far different from the one in which we live. There is a world of consciousness almost completely unexplored. Before the term God was translated to mean a being or a ruler, God was defined as the true nature of being or reality. This true nature of being is consciousness and does not apply to our rational scientific thinking, cannot be measured, and because our current language only really applies to the material world, is almost unfathomable.

These are my own thoughts. If they are respected more will come, for I have much to say...

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Re: What is the true self? [Re: PsycheStudent]
    #1629407 -

Welcome! :cool:
I like the way you think.

There is truth behind the illusion, yet there is still truth in the illusion, or -truth will shine thru.
consciousness is beyond words..yet I will still try.  To root to my truth and understand..but then to apply it..for the Buddha had a good cause.
To connect them, a miracle of realities.

Lets look at it in a dualistic expression.
At one end reality and the longing to understand, at the other reality and understanding.
Did we use the tools of knowledge to achieve understanding?
Where does faith fit in? "higher" forms of tools of learning?

if the line was connected and dimensioned the sphere would still have relative poles percieved and/or in reality, but what is outside the sphere?out of nothing comes something , known forming with unknown, the happening is happening.. the Mystery feeds reality.
The consciousness evolves.

Quote:
Consciousness is the root to our being

..echoes thru eternity..
   

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Re: What is the true self? [Re: shaggy101]
    #1629512 -

As far as I know, without the body, there is no consciousness.

Descartes made a mistake in drawing that line.
I haven't.

Quit thinking that you're more than just an animal with an emphasized central nervous system, because you're not. We all eat, shit, and sleep like the rest of the animal kingdom. We just fabricate barriers that can lead one to believe that we're not beasts ourselves.

Get your beast on.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Re: What is the true self? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1629587 -

Sclorch has yet to be "touched in the head"
Public criticism is the test of our ideas.
Keep talking

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Re: What is the true self? [Re: PsycheStudent]
    #1629672 -

"If they are respected..."
That's a loaded statement.

(I don my prophetic cap and mumble the verses while my eyes roll up into my head)...

"Yea, yea, yea...
Some will repect you all the time
Some will respect you some of the time
And some will respect you none of the time"...

(Pretty good huh)

Honestly tho,
The only way we can learn how to bear up under criticism is to cast ourselves before the swine, and let the process take a little of the beast out of each of us. (could the meaning of life be that simple?) Participation then is of paramount importance, and only pride would keep us from it (hmmm...I'm on a roll)


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Re: What is the true self? [Re: castaway]
    #1629734 -

psychestudent:

"The human body is simply an inanimate object that the mind uses in order to interact in a 3D world"

interesting, and yet, mainipulation of this "inanimate object" affects the all superior mind. heres an idea....maybe the two co-exist and one is not superior to the other????

"the material eyes in which you perceive the world and the arms in which you interact with the world are made of nothing but matter."

-and yet, ironically, this perception of matter develops a persons mind.

"This human body is not the true self as we ignorantly see it to be"

-ignorantly??? so what then, when you look in the mirror do you refer to as the "self"? your invisible third eye?. I dont think human-self image is as simplistic as you would like to beleive. When a person looks the mirror, they do not merely think "that flesh is me", its more like "that flesh which symbolizes my mind and experience and physical presence is me".

"and because our current language only really applies to the material world, is almost unfathomable"

-so our current language only applies to the material world? what then does the word "mind" mean?



--------------------
enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.

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Re: What is the true self? [Re: castaway]
    #1629778 -

I will try to briefly explain what *I* truly believe when we talk about the self.  I'll stay brief because my english vocabulary is quite limited and i can't spend 2 hours tonight for searching my words.. :laugh:

First of all, I believe in the spirit.  That means we are all spirits trapped in a physical body.  The consiciousness, intelligence and morality comes from the spirit.  The brain is just a * tool * that is used by the spirit to interract with the physical world, since he is trapped in the body.  I understand biologists and all other people who can't accept the existence of the spirit and prefer to think that the brain creates everything (consciousness, intelligence, etc...)  It is true that some brain damages can anihiliate the consciousness, lower the intelligence or whatever and it could be logic to believe in the universality of the brain.  But based on my experience, it makes much more sense to me that a damaged brain will simply leave the spirit by itself with less possibilities to express intelligence since the physical tool is broken.

  In brief,  I believe that our true self is our spirit.  We *ARE* this spirit more than the person we currently are.  I mean, we are currently living our life as Jonathan, Rodrigo or Weixi and once dead, we will quit this body for good and will look forward for a new incarnation in the next decades. So yes, I truly believe in reincarnation.  What's the purpose of reincarnation? For me, it's the evolution, a moral evolution.  I believe that 40 or 50 incarnations ago, I was a total mother fucker with no respect for anyone.  Now, I'm a better person, but I still have many *moral impurities* to get rid of.  That's why I live, that's why I suffer.  To be, in overall, a better person.  Being good with others is the only way to find happinness, and get closer to God.

Some people will agree (at least in parts) with me.  Most won't.  The only thing I can say is I was recently enlighted on this and i'm still working really hard to understand all these things better.  A couple years ago, I had some weird experiences with spiritism and since then, after of lot of research, studies and personnal experiences, i'm more than convinced that consiousness is not created by the brain.  There's really something exceptionnal going there that most people don't know or just can't believe or imagine. 

  Dreams during night helped me a lot to understand the spirit,  especially lucid ones.

  I could talk a lot more on the subject if anyone is interested or just want to confront me.  I don't want to convince anyone, just share. 
  .fs.

Edited by fIsh in my head (06/12/03 09:40 PM)

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Re: What is the true self? [Re: PsycheStudent]
    #1629813 -

Quote:
Most people define who they see in the mirror as the self. This is a common illusion in the minds of modern humanity. To find the true self one has to look much deeper in order to perceive the true nature of self. Look in the mirror, the material eyes in which you perceive the world and the arms in which you interact with the world are made of nothing but matter. The human body is simply an inanimate object that the mind uses in order to interact in a 3D world, animating the body and giving the body life. As many people in the medical profession see, you can keep the human body phyically alive but without mind there is no life.



That's contradictory. Without the mind there is no life? Then why did you just specify that you could keep only the body alive?

I beleive that there are connections between the way you look and the person that you are. Your body is the physical representation of your mind. When you look in the mirror, you see yourself under the physical form.

Quote:
In order to find the true self one has to look much deeper for there is another reality far different from the one in which we live.



Where is this "reality" you speak of? Is that a fact, and if not, why did you state it like one?

I can question life and get to know myself perfectly all while being firmly grounded in everyday life.

Quote:
There is a world of consciousness almost completely unexplored. Before the term God was translated to mean a being or a ruler, God was defined as the true nature of being or reality. This true nature of being is consciousness and does not apply to our rational scientific thinking, cannot be measured, and because our current language only really applies to the material world, is almost unfathomable.



All you've done in this post is tell us that there is something that exists "beyond" this reality. You did not try to explain it or describe it in the best of your words. Now that I'm aware that such a different "reality" exists, I'd like to witness it. What steps should I follow, tell me?

Quote:
                                                            These are my own thoughts. If they are respected more will come, for I have much to say...   


What do you mean, respected? Do you mean adhered to? Because I can have different thoughts without being completly closed on them. I'm skeptical. I'm not a sponge, I question everything people tell me  :smirk:. 


--------------------
I'm a bipedal carbon-based pseudo-random number generator.

Demonstration: 152.


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Re: What is the true self? [Re: Meph]
    #1629846 -


" Now that I'm aware that such a different "reality" exists, I'd like to witness it. What steps should I follow, tell me?"-

Telling a polynesian about snow doesn't mean the polynesian can experience snow.
The polynesian still has to travel to where the snow is to experience it.


Skepticism is healthy
but a closed mind will ridicule the wonders of the universe even if proof were only two steps around the corner.

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Re: What is the true self? [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1629854 -

maybe the two co-exist and one is not superior to the other????

exactly. they fit together like yin and yang. without one, the other could not be. each is necessary for the other's existence, and neither is superior.


--------------------
Namaste.

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Re: What is the true self? [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #1629979 -

"As long as we think we are the body, we will fight tooth and nail to hold on to the body when death comes to wrench it away. The tragedy, of course, is that death is going to take it anyway. So the great mystics all tell us, ?Give up your selfish attachments now and be free.? Then, when death does come, we can give him what is his without a shadow of regret, and keep for ourselves what is ours, which is love of the Lord.

There is great artistry in this. Death comes and growls something about how our time has come, and we just say, ?Don?t growl; I?m ready to come on my own.? Then we stand up gracefully, take off the jacket that is the body, hand it over carefully, and go home."
-Eknath Easwaran


Knowing the true Self, Soul or Atman is a goal in life in which we have to obtain. Knowing one's true self has many words across religions and non religious groups, enlightenment, illumination, the supreme consciousness, etc. The discipline of meditation comes into serious play with this topic. Although meditation can't be really dividend into so called steps; there are however certain "landmarks" within the practice. First we find out we are not our body. Second we find out we are not are mind. Wait a minute, if we aren't either of those, there is nothing left, i just totally took the being out of existence. But in the final stage of meditation one finds that the body and mind were in fact powerful instruments to use in the physical planes of this world; in fact they are really a never dying soul; part of Lord Siva, or whatever name you wish to call it Nature, God, or anything.

"Once, the story goes, there was a sculptor in India who was famous for his statues of elephants, which were so perfect in every detail that if you saw one you would expect it to raise its trunk and trumpet. "How do you mangage to carve such lifelike elephants?" People would ask. "Its very simple", the sculptor would reply. "I just find a big rock, take a hammer and some chisles, and remove everything that is not elephant."

In just the same way, you and I can make ourseleves perfect by removing form our consciousness every trace of separateness and selfishness. What is left is our real Self, which is divine. I have deep appreciation for great music, great literature, and great art, but each of these expresses only one small facet of ourselves. To me, it appeals much more deeply to make our whole life a work of art, our every word and deed an expression of the unity of life. This is the highest art there is, and all the world's great religions have given us the tools we need to practice it, in a comprehensive body of spiritual disciplines of which the mantram is only one."
-Eknath Easwaran


--------------------
Aum Namah Sivaya

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Re: What is the true self? [Re: Cougheeman]
    #1629982 -

Good quotes, Cougheeman.

I'm glad to see you around here again! :smile:


--------------------
Namaste.

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Re: What is the true self? [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #1629990 -

Thanks Steve! Yea its good to be back. I got in a little trouble at a concert last year so i stopped coming. Well everything is good now. :laugh: 


--------------------
Aum Namah Sivaya

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Re: What is the true self? [Re: Cougheeman]
    #1629995 -

""As long as we think we are the body, we will fight tooth and nail to hold on to the body when death comes to wrench it away. The tragedy, of course, is that death is going to take it anyway. So the great mystics all tell us, ?Give up your selfish attachments now and be free.? Then, when death does come, we can give him what is his without a shadow of regret, and keep for ourselves what is ours, which is love of the Lord.

So in essence, we should brainwash ourselves into overriding our Prime Directive that is instilled in e-v-e-r-y single life form; and that is survival.

When someone breaks into your house late at night and intends to do you bodily harm; do not fight him, but lay down easily next to your spouse and gladly hand over to the Reaper that which belongs to the Reaper. FUCK THAT!

"Go not gently into that great night, but rage! rage! against the dying of the light."



--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: What is the true self? [Re: Swami]
    #1630303 -

Lol, i like your violent death story. Well iam pretty sure the quote meant in terms of a peaceful death of old age or natural causes. However some people did indeed go peacefully even in the face of a violent death. This quote is from a book entitled The Mantram Handbook by Eknath Easwaran. He is talking about the mantram at the time of death.

"All the mystics tell us to live each moment as if it were our last, and the man or woman who repeats the mantram regularly and with real devotion is actually preparing for this. The person who has become established in the mantram, who has made the mantram an integral part of his or her consciousness, is prepared for death at all times. Mahatma Gandhi, explaining this state, said once that it would be easier for his life to stop than for his mantram, Rama, to cease reverberating in his consciousness. And this is indeed how it came to pass: when his body was pierced by the assassin's bullets, Gandhi blessed his attacker with folded hands and fell with Rama on his lips and in his heart."

It would take some serious will power to even bless a attacker who just took your life; yet Gandhi knew the divine law and he never swayed in it.



--------------------
Aum Namah Sivaya

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Re: What is the true self? [Re: Cougheeman]
    #1631404 -

yeah....ghandi. I think India would be better off if he never existed. Im sure he was very spiritual....but he fucked things up, its very ironic that his philosophy of non-violence caused so much unneeded violence.


--------------------
enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.

Edited by atomikfunksoldier (06/13/03 03:33 PM)

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Re: What is the true self? [Re: castaway]
    #1631410 -

Quote:
Telling a polynesian about snow doesn't mean the polynesian can experience snow.
The polynesian still has to travel to where the snow is to experience it.




I'm not saying another "reality" doesn't exist, although I doubt it. But I'm not closed to the possibility.

So are you telling me that because a user on an internet forum posts that a different reality exists, I should beleive him? Not only does he bring no proof to back himself up, but he does not even attempt to tell us what that "reality" is.

Everyone is born with a certain perception of their surroundings, and that very same shared perception is what allows us to communicate and understand each other.

Quote:
Skepticism is healthy
but a closed mind will ridicule the wonders of the universe even if proof were only two steps around the corner.



Proof? What proof?

Open mindedness is being able to accept that you could be wrong. I am not closed on the possibility of another "reality" existing. But remember that the shortest path is always the better. The simplest explications to the way the world works also are. If an option seems to make more sense, it probably does.

Don't get me wrong, the universe (or more, what I know of it) is incredibly amazing. But why look for more "magical" explanations to your life if everything makes sense already?


--------------------
I'm a bipedal carbon-based pseudo-random number generator.

Demonstration: 152.


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Re: What is the true self? [Re: PsycheStudent]
    #1631429 -

I like this essay a lot:

Ego - The False Center

It's to do with what you're talking about.


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Re: What is the true self? [Re: Revelation]
    #1631465 -

Great text. Nothing to add to it  :smirk:.

Thanks for the link!


--------------------
I'm a bipedal carbon-based pseudo-random number generator.

Demonstration: 152.


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Re: What is the true self? [Re: Meph]
    #1631565 -

If you liked that then you might want to look at some of Osho's other writings Here.


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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