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Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: Shroomism]
    #16014573 -

Shroomism said:
I sure I hope I have you guys on my side when I decide to go out and murder some random unnarmed person.


Innocent until proven guilty.

Same as Zimmerman.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: Beefcakemighty]
    #16014638 -

You don't have to attack me

Who's attacking you man? You see an attack in pointing out that Zimmerman seemed to be reporting a kid out of concern for him and listing things missing from the transcript? Seriously? I'm not the jumpy one.


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: Diploid]
    #16014689 -

Diploid said:
LMAO he called in on a little kid...

It reads like he called out of concern for a little kid alone and maybe lost.

He also reported open garage doors that someone might have forgotten to close thus exposing their stuff to possible theft.

He reported aggressive dogs and stray dogs.

He reported "suspicious white males" too, did you read that part?

He reported debris in the roadway that might cause an accident.

He reported a lot of stuff that, if I lived in that neighborhood, I would be very grateful to him for. That was his volunteer job.

BTW, that's not a complete transcript. This is.



In my opinion it came off as if you were suggesting I was being negative towards him or something because I found it funny he called in a little kid for suspicious activity since that's what it said in the article. Then you continued to point out other facts as if I didn't read them. Just seems like everyone in the thread is ready to rip each other apart for having different views on the subject. :shrug:


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"Hospitality is my house, That a traveler shall share, Warm meal on a hearth And my last horn of mead"

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Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: Shroomism]
    #16014697 -

even though the kid was not doing anything wrong

How do you know he wasn't doing anything wrong? He did something wrong when he apparently broke into a house and stole a bag full of woman's jewelry and a watch. How do you know he wasn't up to more of the same the night he got killed? There had been a half dozen burglaries in the neighborhood recently.

Oh, but of course you believe him when he said "a friend" gave him a bag full of women's jewelry and then refused to give this friend's name? And nevermind the screwdriver found together with the jewelery. He had that to adjust the watch, right?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: Diploid]
    #16014706 -

Diploid said:
Oh, but of course you believe him when he said "a friend" gave him a bag full of women's jewelry and then refused to give this friend's name?


You totally misunderstood him...anonymous WITNESSES are not credible...but anonymous DONORS are totally believable...


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: Beefcakemighty]
    #16014810 -

Beefcakemighty said:
Diploid said:
LMAO he called in on a little kid...

It reads like he called out of concern for a little kid alone and maybe lost.

He also reported open garage doors that someone might have forgotten to close thus exposing their stuff to possible theft.

He reported aggressive dogs and stray dogs.

He reported "suspicious white males" too, did you read that part?

He reported debris in the roadway that might cause an accident.

He reported a lot of stuff that, if I lived in that neighborhood, I would be very grateful to him for. That was his volunteer job.

BTW, that's not a complete transcript. This is.



In my opinion it came off as if you were suggesting I was being negative towards him or something because I found it funny he called in a little kid for suspicious activity since that's what it said in the article. Then you continued to point out other facts as if I didn't read them. Just seems like everyone in the thread is ready to rip each other apart for having different views on the subject. :shrug:



Remember what forum you're in.  Learn to roll with the punches.  This place ain't for softies.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: Diploid]
    #16014817 -

Diploid said:
even though the kid was not doing anything wrong

How do you know he wasn't doing anything wrong? He did something wrong when he apparently broke into a house and stole a bag full of woman's jewelry and a watch. How do you know he wasn't up to more of the same the night he got killed? There had been a half dozen burglaries in the neighborhood recently.

Oh, but of course you believe him when he said "a friend" gave him a bag full of women's jewelry and then refused to give this friend's name? And nevermind the screwdriver found together with the jewelery. He had that to adjust the watch, right?



Maybe he was a cross dresser. :shrug:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: Icelander]
    #16014824 -

Icelander said:
Remember what forum you're in.  Learn to roll with the punches.  This place ain't for softies.


Good point :thumbup:


--------------------
"Hospitality is my house, That a traveler shall share, Warm meal on a hearth And my last horn of mead"

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Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: Not Quite Social]
    #16014960 -

Not Quite Social said:
I believe in a higher law than the one that threatens violence on those who disobey it--that law is more sympathetic to murderers.




Every single act of government contains the threat of violence.


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Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: zappaisgod]
    #16014970 -

zappaisgod said:
Not Quite Social said:
I believe in a higher law than the one that threatens violence on those who disobey it--that law is more sympathetic to murderers.




Every single act of government contains the threat of violence.


Really?  When my city prunes trees in the local park, that contains a threat of violence?

All absolutes are false...even the one I just made.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: Enlil]
    #16015021 -

I kinda see his point. If you prevent the city workers from pruning, the cops will eventually be called to lay down the law, including with force if you insist.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: Enlil]
    #16015064 -

Enlil said:
zappaisgod said:
Not Quite Social said:
I believe in a higher law than the one that threatens violence on those who disobey it--that law is more sympathetic to murderers.




Every single act of government contains the threat of violence.


Really?  When my city prunes trees in the local park, that contains a threat of violence?

All absolutes are false...even the one I just made.


Yes it is.  If I refuse to provide the tax money that pays for it they will prosecute me and at the very least forcibly extract my treasure.


--------------------

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Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: zappaisgod]
    #16015413 -

Did somebody say treasure?



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https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-for-renee-goods-wife-and-son

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Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: zappaisgod]
    #16015883 -

zappaisgod said:
Yes it is.  If I refuse to provide the tax money that pays for it they will prosecute me and at the very least forcibly extract my treasure.


That's some pretty far-removed logic...and a very broad definition of "violence."


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: Enlil]
    #16016361 -

Enlil said:
That's some pretty far-removed logic...and a very broad definition of "violence."


It's not that removed because they directly take tax money and give it to tree trimmers.  Without forcibly extracting tax money using threats of violence, the city doesn't trim trees.

Enlil said:
johnm214 said:
So what?  You say this yet don't base any relevant argument on this claim.  The shooter does not bear the burden of proof.



Actually, he does with respect to the self-defense claim...



In many states self-defense is just an affirmative defense in which case the burden of proof is on the defendant.  In Florida and many other states, however, when a self-defense claim is made, an arrest can't even be made unless there is probable cause that the killing was not in self defense.  If this burden isn't met, the police and/or prosecuting attorney can be sued.  So, for now at least, the burden of proof is on the prosecuting attorney.

Edited by ChuangTzu (03/30/12 12:05 AM)

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Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: Diploid]
    #16017187 -

Diploid said:
even though the kid was not doing anything wrong

How do you know he wasn't doing anything wrong?



What happened to innocent until proven guilty? :confused:
Last I heard he was walking back from the store with a bag of skittles and iced tea.


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Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #16017238 -

Shroomism said:
Diploid said:
even though the kid was not doing anything wrong

How do you know he wasn't doing anything wrong?



What happened to innocent until proven guilty? :confused:


Nothing.  Being in the wrong and being guilty of a criminal offense are two different things. The Constitution grants a presumption of innocence for criminal defendants (by the government, not by message board posters)- that says nothing about whether any party is in the wrong, only that the state must meet its burden or the accused shall be acquitted.  Bad shit happens- it doesn't mean there's necessarily a guilty party.

Quote:
Last I heard he was walking back from the store with a bag of skittles and iced tea.



What difference does that make?  There seems to be a lot of irrelevant appeals in this thread.  It really doesn't matter what was going on, in my opinion, untill the two came together.

I also don't get all this shit about how injured the shooter was- who cares?  If someone attacks you you may shoot them if in reasonable fear for your safety.  You are under no obligation to get your head smashed first, and I don't know why you would.  If your going to shoot, you need to do so while you have some ability to- in close contact its quite easy for another to take the gun away or attempt to.  This happened to someone I know as well- luckily he had witnesses (he was also a police officer, though it doesn't matter.  I don't get why people are makingn some issue out of how the guy followed the shooting victim- it has nothing to do with whether he was justified to shoot)


Similarly with the no-retreat requirement- that doesn't seem to have much to do with this case as of now.  When someone is in physical contact with you, grappling, there's no retreat anyways.


Shroomism said:
I sure I hope I have you guys on my side when I decide to go out and murder some random unnarmed person.



Gee, that's not begging the question is it?  What an irrelevant comment.

What difference does it make who's armed or not?  The law on self defense has nothing to do with who is armed.

Finally, its quite perverse that you construe those resisting jumping to conclusions as "on the side" of the shooter.  How exactly is that the case? 

If you have some sources of information not available to the rest of us, then come out with it, but untill then, it seems quite a dishonest portrayal to label this a murder.

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Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: Not Quite Social]
    #16017640 -

Not Quite Social said:
now y'all have to have guns because you're peeing yourselves at the sight of a black teenager, at the thought of a large assembly of blacks.



I am white and have no opinion on the case as the facts are insufficient. However, I was whipped with stainless steel flexi-cable in front of my house at age 13 by a large gang of black youths merely for being the 'wrong' color. I had about 9 each 4 to 7" X 1/2" welts on the backs of my thighs that took weeks to heal physically and much longer to heal emotionally.


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Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: Shroomism]
    #16017707 -

Shroomism said:
Diploid said:
even though the kid was not doing anything wrong

How do you know he wasn't doing anything wrong?



What happened to innocent until proven guilty? :confused:
Last I heard he was walking back from the store with a bag of skittles and iced tea.



No one said he was guilty of anything. The statement was "how do YOU know he wasn't doing anything wrong"  Last you heard was just what was fed to the media so you don't know all the details yet like the rest of us who are not rushing to judgement.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #16017738 -

That's horrible, Orgone.  I would never attempt to apologize for or justify that ... or dissect race from it, as if racially motivated hate were only a white phenomena.  Broadly speaking, all people can be vicious and evil, and tribalism further empowers these capacities.  Sorry that happened to you.  I hope they went jail.


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