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Re: 2nd amendment to justify shooting pigs? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #856146 -

great post, luvdemshrooms. Bill of rights was designed to protect the citizens from the Bureaurats, not the other way around. Sorry, Alex123. Usually I agree with you but this round YOU LOSE!

Guillotines were designed for beheading heads of State when they exceed their bounds and go running amok. Time to oil up the guillotines again, methinks.

"Evil reigns when good men do nothing".  :grin:

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Re: 2nd amendment to justify shooting pigs? [Re: Xlea321]
    #856270 -

In reply to:
In England you can walk around knowing that the muggers and the burglars are unarmed, the most they'll be packing is a knife.


Where guns are criminalized, only criminals will have guns. You really think that if they're going to go rob someone that they have any respect for gun control laws? Well, they may respect them (after all, gun control laws are helping the criminals), but they will most certainly not obey them.

(shamelessly stolen from infowars.com)


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Janet Reno, if I do not go to jail, I will be in Orlando August 15 and you are not going to be elected to any damn thing. Nobody should fear our Government.
- James Traficant

Edited by toxick (09/01/02 06:12 AM)

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Re: 2nd amendment to justify shooting pigs? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #856382 -

quoting the founding fathers doesn't mean dick.
do you really think we should listen to them?

i guess i should go find some niggers to make my slaves now....


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-
Captain Jack has been hailed as a brilliant scholar, discredited as a brilliant fraud, and mistaken for a much taller man on several occasions.

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Re: 2nd amendment to justify shooting pigs? [Re: dee_N_ae]
    #856397 -

I think it's much simpler to vote their bosses out of power.


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Well...Maybe just a little.

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Re: 2nd amendment to justify shooting pigs? [Re: Captain Jack]
    #856417 -

It may not mean dick to you, but it does to me. Yes, I do think we should listen to the things they had to say. They gave us a set of rules that has lasted over 200 years. No other form of government has lasted so long.

Fortunately, people like you are in the minority. If it wasn't for the Bill of Rights... chances are this site might either not exist at all or be very different. I know it's owners are based in Canada but if you don't think being that close to the US has had no effect on laws in Canada then you don't think very clearly.

So you don't like the second ammendment. Give them all up and try living somewhere that they don't exist. Bet you'd quickly change your mind. Try living in a place where there is no freedom of the press or prohibition of illegal search and seizure. Maybe you'd rather give up the right to a trial of your peers?

Oh and as to your foolish statement about slaves, white were kept as slaves also. It was called indentured servitude.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: 2nd amendment to justify shooting pigs? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #856568 -

The point is whether the second amendment says any yahoo in the country should have a sub-machine gun, It clearly doesn't. If they had meant this they could have said in one simple sentence:

"Every individual has the right to own guns".

They didn't do this. They included the "militia" part at the beginning of the sentence. That suggests to me they didn't mean "Every individual has the right to own guns". There was something more to it.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: 2nd amendment to justify shooting pigs? [Re: toxick]
    #856606 -

Where guns are criminalized, only criminals will have guns.

Yeah but only a tiny, tiny minority of them will have them. I doubt there's one mugger in 100,000 in England with a gun. Or rapist. In America, every single mugger on every single street corner will be packing. Every singe road rage maniac will be packing heat. That doesn't sound too good to me. I could be wrong, but the next time I upset someone in a car I'd rather he jumped out with his fists rather than pumping lead through my windscreen.

Sure, big time criminals will have guns - but how many big time criminals do you meet who are going to mug you?


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: 2nd amendment to justify shooting pigs? [Re: Xlea321]
    #856648 -

We provided quotes from the founding fathers regarding the nature of militias and the right to keep and bear arms, yet you ignore them and state that your interpretation is somehow more valid the words of the people who founded this country. It is obvious that you will not let facts get in the way of your pre-conceived notions and the mental pablum you regurgitate after a lifetime of feedings from the government run propaganda, er I mean school system.

I have another quote for you and all the other pathetic bleating sheep who would sell us down the river to an ever increasingly totalitarian system, who will sacrifice our liberties for their fantasy of government guaranteed security...

"If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude
greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in
peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick
the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may
posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."
-- Samuel Adams

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Re: 2nd amendment to justify shooting pigs? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #856753 -

"They gave us a set of rules that has lasted over 200 years. No other form of government has lasted so long."

Wrong.
I don't even need to give examples to back this up. Just think for ten seconds.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: 2nd amendment to justify shooting pigs? [Re: ]
    #856756 -

Well said, Evolving. Give 'um hell! :grin:

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Re: 2nd amendment to justify shooting pigs? [Re: Phluck]
    #856757 -

Whoever it was that said that some other countries have made stricter gun laws. I also would like to remind you, that go to that country. Look at how many knive ads they have. Sheesh. Maybe they dont shoot people but being stabbed hurts also =)

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Re: 2nd amendment to justify shooting pigs? [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #856761 -

i can legally own a machine gun in florida! isn't that some cool shit?


--------------------
If you're frightened of dying and you're holding on.you'll see devils tearing your life away.
But...if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels
Freeing you from the earth.

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Re: 2nd amendment to justify shooting pigs? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #856791 -

Did I say I don't like the Bill of Rights?
Did I say I don't like the Second Amendment?

No.

I just don't agree with using quotes from people who lived in the 18th century as an argument. After all, if we based all our laws around them, we should have slaves. And we'd have a bunch of other fucked up rules....because they had some fucked up rules. Of course, you ignored that point and just called it a foolish statement because whites were slaves too. So should I say "round me up some niggers and crackers to make my slaves"? Then will you check for the point before calling me a fool?


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-
Captain Jack has been hailed as a brilliant scholar, discredited as a brilliant fraud, and mistaken for a much taller man on several occasions.

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Re: 2nd amendment to justify shooting pigs? [Re: Xlea321]
    #856889 -

In reply to:
Yeah but only a tiny, tiny minority of them will have them. I doubt there's one mugger in 100,000 in England with a gun. Or rapist.


I'm glad you're so confident about it. I'm not. Care to cite any references?

In reply to:
In America, every single mugger on every single street corner will be packing. Every singe road rage maniac will be packing heat. That doesn't sound too good to me. I could be wrong, but the next time I upset someone in a car I'd rather he jumped out with his fists rather than pumping lead through my windscreen.


Waaaaah. Help me, I'm defenseless! So just how do you propose we go about getting all of these guns back that people already own? I certainly don't see door-to-door searches going over very well with the general public.

Point 2-B, the problem isn't the gun. I repeat, the problem ISN'T the gun. The problem is the maniac wielding the gun. Don't attack the shadow, attack the source. We have a very poor understanding of guns and violence in our culture. Just watch the teevee for an hour...any station will do. We need to better educate everyone as a whole. Intelligent people don't go blow holes through other people's heads, they blow holes through their minds.

"Oh, was I taking life too seriously? Sorry, I thought this shit mattered"


--------------------
Janet Reno, if I do not go to jail, I will be in Orlando August 15 and you are not going to be elected to any damn thing. Nobody should fear our Government.
- James Traficant

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Re: 2nd amendment to justify shooting pigs? [Re: Phluck]
    #857013 -

I'll re-phrase it for you then.

The United States is the longest-lasting democratic form of government known in the history of mankind.
Hope that's more to your liking. Thanks for the opportunity to be more clear.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: 2nd amendment to justify shooting pigs? [Re: Captain Jack]
    #857025 -

Perhaps you should re-read my post. I responded to both parts.

In reply to:
I just don't agree with using quotes from people who lived in the 18th century as an argument.



I gave other more recent quotes as well. Did you bother to read any of them?




--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: 2nd amendment to justify shooting pigs? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #857133 -

yeah i'm always a huge fan of using the Dred Scott decision to back up what i'm trying to say.


--------------------
-
Captain Jack has been hailed as a brilliant scholar, discredited as a brilliant fraud, and mistaken for a much taller man on several occasions.

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Re: 2nd amendment to justify shooting pigs? [Re: Captain Jack]
    #857141 -

Well at least your consistant.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: 2nd amendment to justify shooting pigs? [Re: ]
    #857719 -

We provided quotes from the founding fathers regarding the nature of militias and the right to keep and bear arms, yet you ignore them and state that your interpretation is somehow more valid the words of the people who founded this country.

You are clearly so profoundly ignorant that you ignore everything that you don't agree with. The point has been made repeatedly in the thread that while there were some of the founding fathers who agreed with gun ownership this was not reflected in the wording of the second amendment.

When you grow up enough to conduct a civil debate perhaps you could get back to us.

Thanks.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi

Edited by Alex123 (09/01/02 06:33 PM)

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Re: 2nd amendment to justify shooting pigs? [Re: Xlea321]
    #857885 -

In reply to:
The point has been made repeatedly in the thread that while there were some of the founding fathers who agreed with gun ownership this was not reflected in the wording of the second amendment.


Just because you or others state something repeatedly does not make it so. Please provide quotes from the Federalist Papers or more importantly, the Anti-Federalists to back up your position, as I and others have done with ours. (The arguments of the Anti-Federalists were largely responsible for the amendment of the Bill of Rights to the constitution).

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state,
the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."
-- US 2nd Amendment

I've bolded the words that offend you. Notice that it doesn't say 'the right of the states' or 'the right of the federal government,' no, it says 'the right of the people.'


Now, check out the wording on this:
"The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be
construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."
-- US 9th Amendment

Or how about this:
"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution,
nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states
respectively, or to the people."
-- US 10th Amendment
Notice the terms, 'United States,' 'states' and 'people.' I guess you and some others don't know the differences between the meanings of these words, fortunately some of us still do.

Edited by Evolving (09/01/02 08:59 PM)

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General Interest > Political Discussion
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