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Anonymous

Re: Gun violence in America, why? [Re: Autonomous]
    #1849500 - 08/25/03 09:36 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Damn, that chart seems to indicate that blacks kill a lot of people compared to other races killing people.

Azmodeus:

"Actually i'd say its simple numbers. Many more people own guns in america than canada....thus more gun crime."

That's exactly what the Moore-on wants you to think but as wingnutz pointed out if that were true places like Virgin, Utah, where you have to own a gun to live there, would have extremely high crime rates. They have next to none.

immaculate:

"so the black vs white crime doesnt matter nearly as much as the fact that black people have a higher density of criminals... so culture would matter over slavery. but then since slavery and poverty were the foundation of black culture.. and theyre still disproportionately impoverished.. slavery was instrumental in shaping the culture of today, which is why theyre so violent."

That makes sense to me. Look at Autonomous' chart. It makes it appear as if blacks are prone to homocide.



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OfflineDeepDish2
journeyman
Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 55
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
Re: Gun violence in America, why? [Re: ]
    #1849538 - 08/25/03 09:49 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Azmodeus:

"Actually i'd say its simple numbers. Many more people own guns in america than canada....thus more gun crime."

That's exactly what the Moore-on wants you to think but as wingnutz pointed out if that were true places like Virgin, Utah, where you have to own a gun to live there, would have extremely high crime rates. They have next to none.


Did you watch the movie? Granted Moore uses his share of propoganda, but his message is NOT anti-gun. In fact in the scenes where he is interviewing all the gun owners in Canada, he finds that Canada also has a fairly well armed populace. This goes directly against the numbers argument.


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OfflineMalachi
stereotype

Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 1,294
Loc: Around Minneapolis.
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
Re: Gun violence in America, why? [Re: DeepDish2]
    #1849568 - 08/25/03 10:00 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

yeah, moore's conclusion seems to be that it's the so-called "culture of fear" that makes americans kill each other, not the number of guns.

mr mushrooms, have you even seen the film? I have no idea how you could've wrote "hat's exactly what the Moore-on wants you to think".

regardless of what you think of moore's intellect, he is a noble man doing what he thinks is right. I encourage anyone on this message board who has shot a documentary or written a book that has sparked a fraction of the honest public debate as moore's work has to please share it with us. or a book or film about anything, for that matter.


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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Offlinedeviantnature
StrangerThanNormal
Registered: 08/06/03
Posts: 3
Loc: IL
Last seen: 18 years, 2 months
Re: Gun violence in America, why? [Re: ]
    #1849605 - 08/25/03 10:16 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Just went through this thread and reaching the end of it felt like tossing in my two cents. I don't think that race has anything to do with the gun violence in America I think The men and the circumstance under which they procured the guns has to do with gun violence in America. I don't know if you people noticed but this country was ruled by men with guns, then freed by men with guns and split apart and brought back together(no surprise)by men with guns.
There has always been crime and there will always be crime as long as there is money and evil and the men that will use evil means to get money in this world and in this country we live in. If you want to blame the violence on anyone blame it on the source of illegal guns in America research where the guns are coming from and how they are getting here. These are weapons that find there way into the hands of children and criminals.
I don't think the topic of this thread should be gun violence in America but violence in America period.
As Far as the Canadian thing I don't know much about Canadian goverment except that Canadians like to drink and sing dirty lymrics


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OfflineMalachi
stereotype

Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 1,294
Loc: Around Minneapolis.
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
Re: Gun violence in America, why? [Re: deviantnature]
    #1849620 - 08/25/03 10:21 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

actually children get guns from their parents, not illegal gun smugglers.


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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OfflineCornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 18 years, 15 days
Re: Gun violence in America, why? [Re: ]
    #1849689 - 08/25/03 10:41 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Mr_Mushrooms said:
Damn, that chart seems to indicate that blacks kill a lot of people compared to other races killing people.


After starting this thread off with an interesting hypothesis that gun violence could be tied to slavery, I'm surprised you made this statement.  If you stuck with your hypothesis, wouldn't you ask yourself about the slavery situation in Africa???  :confused:
If you did, I think you would find that slavery was (and still is) a bigger problem in Africa than anywhere else, and this fact would greatly strengthen your hypothesis.


--------------------


Edited by Cornholio (08/25/03 11:35 PM)


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Anonymous

Re: Gun violence in America, why? [Re: Cornholio]
    #1849962 - 08/26/03 12:15 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

That's because I didn't know there was a slavery situation in Africa.

Thanks for bringing it up though.  Now I do. :smile:

And yes, that does seem to strengthen my original hypothesis.

Is this a commonly known fact?


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OfflineCornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 18 years, 15 days
Re: Gun violence in America, why? [Re: ]
    #1850022 - 08/26/03 12:32 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Here's a good article about modern day slavery from a source I have a lot of trust in (infoplease.com).

Here's another that mentions that slavery was worse in Africa than in the Americas. Although I don't know anything about the source, it sounds like a very well reasoned article.

No, I don't think the details of slavery in countries outside the US is something that's well known.


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Edited by Cornholio (08/26/03 03:53 AM)


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Anonymous

Re: Gun violence in America, why? [Re: Cornholio]
    #1850029 - 08/26/03 12:33 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks!


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OfflineCornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 18 years, 15 days
Re: Gun violence in America, why? [Re: ]
    #1850059 - 08/26/03 12:45 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

You bet!  Good luck with your book sales when you publish this!  :wink: 


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