Home | Community | Message Board
You are not signed in.
Sign In New Account
Forum Index Search Posts Trusted Vendors Highlights Galleries FAQ User List Chat Store Random Growery


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.

General Interest > Political Discussion
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   MagicBag.co Certified Organic All-In-One Grow Bags by Magic Bag

Jump to first unread post Pages: < First | | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 | | Last >
Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: Not Quite Social] * 2
    #16013350 -

I never was one of those who said Zimmerman was outright told not to follow Martin.

No, you did worse. You stated matter-of-factly that Zimmerman murdered Martin. Fuck the investigation. Fuck the evidence still coming out. Fuck the parent's lies. Fuck Martin's suspensions. Fuck Martin's burglaries. Fuck Martin's drug dealing. Fuck the eye witness who saw Martin beating up Zimmerman. Fuck the video of a gash on Zimmerman's head. Fuck the cop that stopped to look at it. Fuck the paramedics who treated Zimmerman. Fuck the thug pictures of martin on Facebook. Fuck his attack on a bus driver.

Fuck it all, Zimmerman is a murder because you've made up your mind and the facts be damned. Well, all except the facts that weigh in your favor. Those are different.

How about that for some "cook and spin"?

Guess leopards really can't change their spots after all. You are no better than the Black Panthers putting a bounty on Zimmerman's head with an investigation still underway.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: Diploid]
    #16013563 -

I just listened to some discussion on NPR and they had a reporter that was on this case long before it hit the mainstream. He interview for 10 to 15 minutes the chief of police and no mention was ever made of injuries to Zimmerman.  I find this fairly suspicious.  Also no mention was made of one investigator wanting to press charges.  I remember when first hearing this on the news no mention was made of injuries to Zimmerman.  I'm frankly suspicious of the possibility of a police coverup here. Can anyone speak to this?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: Icelander] * 1
    #16013643 -

The arresting officers report I linked ^^^ up there said the following:

Zimmerman complied with all of my verbal commands and was secured in handcuffs. Located on the inside of Zimmerman's waist band, I removed a black Kel Tek 9mm PF9 semi auto handgun and holster. While I was in such close contact with Zimmerman, I couled observe that his back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass, as if he had been laying on his back on the ground. Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and back of his head.

.
.
.

Zimmerman was placed in the rear of my police vehicle and was given first aid by the SFD [Sanford Fire Department]. While the SFD was attending to Zimmerman, I over heard him state "I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me..." Once Zimmerman was cleared by the SFD, he was transported to the Sanford Police Department.

I would not put it past the police to lie, cover up the truth, and fabricate evidence, but I don't see that as plausible in this case. Why would a cop who doesn't know Zimmerman perjure himself about the blood and injuries knowing that paramedics will eventually be asked to give their account? It doesn't ring plausible to me that the police are making this up.

Check the arrest report I linked. There's a lot more there that can't be copy-paste. I had to type all this by hand and it's only a small part of the report.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: Diploid]
    #16013678 -

OK thanks.

Hey what about this investigator what supposedly wanted to charge Zimmerman with homicide?  Is there anything to that?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: Icelander]
    #16013696 -

Hey what about this investigator what supposedly wanted to charge Zimmerman with homicide?  Is there anything to that?

Dunno what's up with that. Turns out Zimmerman's father (I think) is a retired magistrate. Did he pull strings to get the investigator to back down?

Also, drug investigators interviewed Zimmerman, not homicide investigators. Maybe that's common practice if there's a shortage of personnel, but I haven't heard a rationale for that from the SPD.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: Diploid] * 1
    #16013724 -

Quote:
You stated matter-of-factly that Zimmerman murdered Martin.

Obviously, Zimmerman murdered Martin.  I know, beyond a reasonable doubt, that Zimmerman pointed the  gun at Martin and pulled the trigger, resulting in a hole in Martin and Martin's death.  I don't need the US govt.'s authority to allow me to call a spade a spade.  The thing is what it is, and it exists outside Florida or US law.  When a person aims a gun at another person and fires, that's murder.  In extreme cases, murder may be morally justified (according to me again--I grant myself the authority to make these sorts of judgments); for example, a sniper shooting a suicide bomber just before he enters a cafe.  I haven't seen one shred of evidence suggesting Zimmerman was justified, and I still don't.  By the way, I don't need to, "Fuck the investigation" because the Sanford PD already did that.

Fuck the evidence still coming out.

The stuff that's been coming out has mostly been claims from Zimmerman's lawer, father, a weird acquaintance who quit his job to be George's media ally, and an anonymous witness.  Considering the sources and the fact that they are not at all or not well substantiated by physical evidence, I gave them the weight they deserved in my reconning.  A lot of you here gave these sources too much credibility considering the known factual circumstances--in my opinion, to which I'm entitled

Fuck the parent's lies.

Martin's parents had nothing to do with his murder.

Fuck Martin's suspensions.

Martin's suspensions had nothing to do with his murder.

Fuck Martin's burglaries.

This unsubstantiated smear had nothing to do with Martin's murder.

Fuck Martin's drug dealing.

This unsubstantiated smear had nothing to do with Martin's murder.

Fuck the eye witness who saw Martin beating up Zimmerman.

Who?  Was he high on shrooms?

Fuck the video of a gash on Zimmerman's head.

That's not a gash; that's a big yellow arrow.

Fuck the cop that stopped to look at it.

Hopefully the police took a picture; otherwise ... look at what?

Fuck the paramedics who treated Zimmerman.

I haven't heard their testimony.  Zimmerman appeared pretty A-Okay in the latest video--not like someone who just fought for his life

Fuck the thug pictures of Martin on Facebook.

Yep, fuck that.

Fuck his attack on a bus driver.

Yep, fuck that too--another smear that has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that Zimmerman murdered Martin.

Fuck it all, Zimmerman is a murder because you've made up your mind and the facts be damned.

You're right, Zimmerman is a murderer, but not because I think so--because he shot and killed Trayvon Martin.  You cling to some pretty weak stuff to blame an innocent kid for being shot by a irrationally biased & reckless authoritarian.


I can only speculate that "Diploid" is the internet hoodie for Joe Oliver.


--------------------

Edited by Not Quite Social (03/29/12 03:22 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: Diploid]
    #16013729 -

Looks like the State Attorney pulled the homicide investigator back. So again I wonder if Zimmerman's retired-magistrate father had anything to do with it?

--

The lead homicide investigator in the shooting of unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin recommended that neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman be charged with manslaughter the night of the shooting, multiple sources told ABC News.

But Sanford, Fla., Investigator Chris Serino was instructed to not press charges against Zimmerman because the state attorney's office headed by Norman Wolfinger determined there wasn't enough evidence to lead to a conviction, the sources told ABC News.

Police brought Zimmerman into the station for questioning for a few hours on the night of the shooting, said Zimmerman's attorney, despite his request for medical attention first. Ultimately they had to accept Zimmerman's claim of self defense. He was never charged with a crime.

Serino filed an affidavit on Feb. 26, the night that Martin was shot and killed by Zimmerman, that stated he was unconvinced Zimmerman's version of events.

Zimmerman, 28, claimed he shot Martin, 17, in self defense.

One complicating factor in the investigation was that the first detective to interview Zimmerman about the shooting was a narcotics officer rather than a homicide detective.

The State Attorney's office said only "no comment" when asked about the affidavit today.

The revelation is the latest salvo in a war of leaks meant to bolster each side amid rising tension over the shooting.

ABC News


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: Not Quite Social]
    #16013737 -

I know, beyond a reasonable doub

Yeah yeah man. You know beyond a reasonable doubt that the unfinished (federal not Sanford police) investigation and incomplete facts prove your case. Whatever.

You know, I've never ignored anyone on Shroomery, but I'm coming close to ignoring you.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: Diploid]
    #16013810 -

I just disagree with you, man.  I'm not gonna flame your ratings or say really mean things.  It's politics--we have opinions that make each other's BP rise.  We're not going to change each other's world view, but I'll listen to your ideas and criticize away where I think you're wrong (by the way, I tend not to use the word "fuck" as much as you); and, maybe, sometimes, I'll alter my opinion somewhat based on your criticism or good point.  If you don't want to listen to my viewpoint for whatever reason, it's so distasteful; if that helps you feel more comfortable, then go ahead and put me on ignore--I don't mind.  It made me feel a lot better to keep fireworks_god on ignore for a month, then I took him off ignore and I realized all I needed was a refreshing break from him.  Maybe you need a refreshing break from me--ha!


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: Not Quite Social] * 1
    #16013811 -

Not Quite Social said:
You're right, Zimmerman is a murderer, but not because I think so--because he shot and killed Trayvon Martin.  You cling to some pretty weak stuff to blame an innocent kid for being shot by a irrationally biased & reckless authoritarian.




So, you are using your own definition of murder here...not the same one we are...The rest of us are using a legal definition...

If you think that every homicide is murder, then what is the point of having two different words?

You must think that someone who accidentally runs over a pedestrian has committed murder, too...

In a world of black and white, you simply have to choose one side or the other...You've clearly chosen yours.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: Enlil] * 2
    #16013953 -

Enlil,

You have a pat and singsongy way of criticizing me.

The defintion of murder depends on violation of the law, right?  Whose law, Enlil?  British law?  Iranian law?  God's law?  Diploid's law?  You accept that Flordia law or US law governs, right?  Well then, we have no business discussing the matter--it'll eventually go before a jury and there we'll have it, determined for us.  You are wrong to say that everyone else here, "the rest of us", is using a standard legal definition.  We're all bringing our own moral sensibilities, some of which may be more informed by knowledge of the law than others, to the discussion.  This isn't a specific legal proceeding--it is a discussion on the internet.  I'm clear about where I'm coming from.  Many here are muddled, thinking they possess the key to objectivity and enerring reason (for example, my friend, Johnm214).  Personal moral outrage and experience informed opinons are good and acceptable, in my humble opinion; otherwise, we'd have to ban Therian, for example.  But hey, you can be our legal guy--I like you like that.  I like the way you're eager to try to humble anyone--in your singsong way--no matter how morally just or bankrupt his perspective.  :thumbup:


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: Not Quite Social] * 1
    #16014014 -

Perhaps you, knowing he's correct, just have issues with being wrong.

There are definitions, they do apply.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: Not Quite Social]
    #16014045 -

Not Quite Social said:
Enlil,

You have a pat and singsongy way of criticizing me.

The defintion of murder depends on violation of the law, right?  Whose law, Enlil?  British law?  Iranian law?  God's law?  Diploid's law?  You accept that Flordia law or US law governs, right?  Well then, we have no business discussing the matter--it'll eventually go before a jury and there we'll have it, determined for us.  You are wrong to say that everyone else here, "the rest of us", is using a standard legal definition.  We're all bringing our own moral sensibilities, some of which may be more informed by knowledge of the law than others, to the discussion.  This isn't a specific legal proceeding--it is a discussion on the internet.  I'm clear about where I'm coming from.  Many here are muddled, thinking they possess the key to objectivity and enerring reason (for example, my friend, Johnm214).  Personal moral outrage and experience informed opinons are good and acceptable, in my humble opinion; otherwise, we'd have to ban Therian, for example.  But hey, you can be our legal guy--I like you like that.  I like the way you're eager to try to humble anyone--in your singsong way--no matter how morally just or bankrupt his perspective.  :thumbup:


If you're going to argue that someone should be prosecuted by the law, then you should do so using the law...

If you think that we should just string the guy up because we have some moral right/obligation to do so, that's an entirely different argument...

I live in a the same society as zimmerman and martin, and I would really prefer to know that there is a system in place which differentiates between homicides based on the circumstances.  I have not, as of yet, killed anyone...but I know not what the future holds.  It's just nice to know that a structure exists that can protect me if I am ever in the position where I have to in order to protect myself or my family.

Of course, no one here knows whether that was the situation on that evening in FL...Yet, you have already deemed zimmerman a murderer based on your own definition of the word.  You're entitled to do that, but if you want him PROSECUTED for the legally defined crime of murder...then you're going to need a bit more than a simplistic "martin's dead, so it's murder" logic.

If you want him lynched, just pledge another $100 or so to the bounty on dude's head...If zimmerman is killed on your dime, I'm sure you'll find some definition of "murder" which exempts you from culpability.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: Not Quite Social]
    #16014053 -

I think you have been quite aware of how the term murder is being used in this discussion.  It makes little sense to use another unless your only reason to be here is to vent some rage at us or Zimmerman or the system in general.

I value at least some of your input here but if you want to change the rules of the game whenever it suits your interests I see no need for us to take you seriously.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: luvdemshrooms] * 2
    #16014061 -

I believe in a higher law than the one that threatens violence on those who disobey it--that law is more sympathetic to murderers.

Edit: I just read what you wrote above, Enlil.  My response is this:  perhaps I am of a divided mind here, but I don't advocate stringing up or murder (as you projected on me), just the opposite: I advocate against a murderer, which he is in light of the preponderance of the facts, per my reading and our discussion--I haven't seen evidence that comes close to justifying his actions.  On the contrary, I've seen a lot of nonsense that people give weight to, which I can't imagine meets any kind of US legal standard you would like to apply (a "thug" pose on Facebook, for example); yet these are presented here as part of the discussion, so that's Okay (for some more than others, obviously), and these other not-so-legal contriutions are not-so-challenged as my definition of murder which relies on moral if not legal authority.  But you are correct ... I would like to see Zimmerman sentenced ... per a jury based on the working of man's law as you described.


--------------------

Edited by Not Quite Social (03/29/12 04:48 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: Not Quite Social]
    #16014071 -

And I believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster and the Easter Bunny. So what?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: Not Quite Social]
    #16014074 -

Not Quite Social said:
I believe in a higher law than the one that threatens violence on those who disobey it--that law is more sympathetic to murderers.


That'll be awesome... should you ever become King.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: Not Quite Social]
    #16014109 -

Not Quite Social said:
I believe in a higher law than the one that threatens violence on those who disobey it--that law is more sympathetic to murderers.


If that's the case, then why do you even care if the police arrested him or didn't..or if he is charged?  They don't enforce your "higher law." 

Just call your God or whomever, and have him/her take care of it...Why even bother with the petty concerns of the lower law of society.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: Not Quite Social]
    #16014112 -

Martin's suspensions had nothing to do with his murder.
Fuck Martin's burglaries. This unsubstantiated smear had nothing to do with Martin's murder.
Fuck Martin's drug dealing. This unsubstantiated smear had nothing to do with Martin's murder.
Fuck the thug pictures of Martin on Facebook. Yep, fuck that.

They all go to Martin's character and the plausibility that he did in fact escalate things by attacking. If Martin attacked, Zimmerman was justified. Why is this so hard for you to get through your head?

Fuck his attack on a bus driver. Yep, fuck that too--another smear that has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that Zimmerman murdered Martin.

Yeah of course fuck that because you know that if Martin attacked a bus driver, he damned well could have attacked Zimmerman.

Fuck the paramedics who treated Zimmerman. I haven't heard their testimony.

It's in the police report. Why would a cop lie on a police report and risk prison for perjury when paramedics will certainly be eventually questioned and expose the cops lie? Why would he do that?

Besides, you've already ignored eye witness testimony out of hand, why would you do any different with paramedics' testimony when it comes out?

Fuck the eye witness who saw Martin beating up Zimmerman. Who?  Was he high on shrooms?

Are you fucking kidding me? Really? You are dismissing eye witness accounts out of hand? The guy who was fucking standing there looking at things?

If this alone doesn't paint you as a biased, racist, tool incapable of admitting that you may be wrong, I don't know what does. You are just amazing. You make religious fundamentalists look like a bastion of intellectual honesty. Seriously, dismissing direct eye witness testimony with "Was he high on shrooms?"

You are not here to find the truth. You're here to win an argument. Fuck the truth.

I have seen everything now. Dismiss an eye witness account with "Was he high on shrooms?" :facepalm:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: Diploid]
    #16014149 -

See above edit/response ....  Thanks


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < First | | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 | | Last >

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   MagicBag.co Certified Organic All-In-One Grow Bags by Magic Bag

General Interest > Political Discussion
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Moore hits back
( 1 2 3 4 all )		 Edame 5,897 62 10/02/03 09:29 AM
by Anonymous
* Gun violence in America, why?
( 1 2 3 all )		 Anonymous 4,914 49 08/26/03 12:45 AM
by Cornholio
* Academy Awards Anti-War Message from Michael Moore
( 1 2 3 all )		 mjshroomer 3,794 57 03/24/03 02:59 PM
by mjshroomer
* What is wrong with Black America?
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 all )		 RandalFlagg 15,057 148 12/29/03 01:19 PM
by Phred
* Letters from soldiers in Iraq, to M. Moore... RunDMT 602 1 10/05/04 03:36 PM
by RunDMT
* Who Rules America? Who Owns The Media? - The Facts usefulidiot 2,153 13 01/18/05 08:00 AM
by GazzBut
* 2nd amendment to justify shooting pigs?
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 all )		 dee_N_ae 14,682 131 09/19/02 03:08 PM
by francisco
* 'Fahrenheit 9/11' a No. 1 Hit Across America fft2 967 13 06/29/04 02:22 AM
by Swami

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Enlil, ballsalsa
110,630 topic views. 2 members, 16 guests and 57 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2026 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.035 seconds spending 0.01 seconds on 16 queries.