spacecase-25 said:

I have also had dreams where I "awoke" from the dream while still dreaming.

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redgreenvines said:

in dreams, speaking is spoken because sequences are not fully supported, and the listening is done already.
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usually if you have a sequence - it is (scene)transitional or looped (part of the sustained tableau itself).
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the main thing is tableaux, scenes unfold - reveal and layer - the vantage point can extend - characters can 'be arrived' - words can -'have been spoken' - it is part of the connection making process for what is already in your head.
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a gestural musical sound, feeling, or expression also can - 'have been started'  (this is most frustrating to lucid pursuit)
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then the whole thing is replaced (or transitioned to) with a different tableau unfolding, already there.

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redgreenvines said:

oh yes you do
you just described false awakening.
a looping of tableaux including one scene in which the dreamer believes he is awake.

a dream scene usually spans a very short interval or is like a still image of a single space or a combined unfamiliar space made of spaces that have been familiar.

you can explore the image/dreamspace as it continues to unravel or expand or clarify (interpenetrating connections being made), but you do not move much in it, nor does anything move much, except for resolving.

(this is because it is a fixation process for memory - sustained engrams from your daily life are interpenetrating and linking up with other engramatically related mental contents.)

besides resolving or unfolding, a scene may connect instantaneously to another scene - if the other scene appears similar you may feel motion in the scene, otherwise you will seem transported instantaneously into the next image.

separately from scenes which do not really move much except in brief (often looping) sequences, motion itself can be a scene or layer upon a scene, and you can dream that you are moving or flying and it can be  an exhilarating sustained movement layered over the rest of dream content.

you can fly or run and not even move at all. it is the pure idea or memory of the motion (as an engram pattern) mixed with other dream content.

can you resonate with that?

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redgreenvines said:

I am writing from direct experience
sorry if it reads like a book

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mesoamerican said:

I think the "west" is too concerned about individuality and everyone wants to "own" their thoughts and citation is very important.. I don't know why.. All information is passed down and we create our own conclusions.. So why is plagiarism so important? We weren't born talking and writing.. Society has really shaped us the way we are.. just wanted to say that

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redgreenvines said:

actually the things I read from books are too hard to remember and make sense of,
but I can usually piece together that what is happening involves sensation and memory, and the picture comes back about how this works.

That way I can easily remember how states of mind can be differentiated by more or less image persistence (lingering fading for more resonant states of mind).

I easily figure out if I am stoned or sober,
awake or asleep.

The same rules apply in all states of mind ( rules of sensation - association & memory fixation) - allowing for variance if there is a lot or just a little  reverb.

(more reverb more stoned, or dreaming - or emotionally tripping out, less reverb and it is ok to drive a car...)

everything else that I write is an extension of this, usually articulated from scratch in reference to the question at hand.

if I were reciting books I would give you abhidhamma's citta citta citta and bhagavangha moments etc. and all the sensibilities of 800 years ago theravadin buddhism in burma which would be a little bit fake since I do not recall any of that.

Instead I only talk these days about what is right here and now in ordinary language. I did study the science of it in university, but simple words work well enough to refer to what is happening.

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