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Is there a such thing as an authentic character?
    #13719605 -

Or are all characters necessarily inauthentic? What do you think? :blah:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Is there a such thing as an authentic character? [Re: Poid] * 1
    #13719637 -

an ideal, ought and nothing more. maybe the only authentic character is that of the unsocialized child.


--------------------
Not all drugs are good, Some are great.




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Re: Is there a such thing as an authentic character? [Re: hoodbran]
    #13719642 -

hoodbran said:
maybe the only authentic character is that of the unsocialized child.

Why do you say that? What makes an unsocialized child's character any more authentic than that of a socialized adult?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Is there a such thing as an authentic character? [Re: Poid]
    #13719649 -

You will need a working definition of "authentic" to proceed.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Is there a such thing as an authentic character? [Re: Icelander]
    #13719674 -

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/authentic
3: not false or imitation : real, actual <an authentic cockney accent>


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Is there a such thing as an authentic character? [Re: Poid]
    #13719750 -

I don't know, but I like this Faulkner quote which somewhat relates:

"The best fiction is far more true than any journalism."


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Is there a such thing as an authentic character? [Re: deCypher]
    #13719770 -

I lke the quote, but am having trouble seeing how that relates--are you saying that human characters are truer than they appear? :undecided:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Is there a such thing as an authentic character? [Re: Poid]
    #13719789 -

Poid said:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/authentic
3: not false or imitation : real, actual <an authentic cockney accent>


Going by this definition then I'd say all fictitious characters, by definition, are not real/authentic.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Is there a such thing as an authentic character? [Re: deCypher]
    #13719795 -

That's kind of redundant, don't you think?


All characters are imitations of cultural behaviors--that said, how, then, could any character be authentic?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Is there a such thing as an authentic character? [Re: Poid]
    #13719802 -

A character can be more authentic than another, certainly.  Hence the difference between shitty books and good ones.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Is there a such thing as an authentic character? [Re: deCypher]
    #13719837 -

deCypher said:
A character can be more authentic than another, certainly.

How so? In order for one character to be more authentic than another, it must be more original, and it must not be as much of an imitation; the problem here is that all characters are unoriginal (since they are all based on something, like culture for example), and they are all imitations.

I don't see how one character can be more authentic than another, because, IMO, all characters are completely unoriginal.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Is there a such thing as an authentic character? [Re: Poid]
    #13719848 -

I'm using authentic in the sense of "real" here.  A character can certainly seem more realistic than another in that they behave in a way that doesn't jar your suspension of disbelief while reading the story.  Interestingly, if the character becomes too realistic then you probably wouldn't care that much about them as we're not that interested in the ordinary: the protagonist usually exhibits characteristics that set them apart from the usual crowd.  :pipesmoke:


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Is there a such thing as an authentic character? [Re: deCypher]
    #13720201 -

Ah, I see what you mean. :wink:


PS- Shop for: ½ Pint Jars :lol:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Is there a such thing as an authentic character? [Re: hoodbran]
    #13721194 -

Poid said:
hoodbran said:
maybe the only authentic character is that of the unsocialized child.

Why do you say that? What makes an unsocialized child's character any more authentic than that of a socialized adult?


hoodbran said:
an ideal, ought


adults strive for the ideal 'adult', whatever that is. socially constructed, and it is inauthentic. i think all children display characteristics general of all children who are 'preoperational' - the quality of "awww" that summs up what might be called a child's character, sleepless nights included. characterological issues might cause a person to appear authentic but they're just hiding behind Gasset's "curtain of fantasy"; in other words death anxiety :lol:


--------------------
Not all drugs are good, Some are great.




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Re: Is there a such thing as an authentic character? [Re: hoodbran]
    #13723953 -

Can you answer my question, though? :lol:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Is there a such thing as an authentic character? [Re: Poid]
    #13724212 -

Oh. :blush:

For the same reason the character 'a' is as inauthentic as the socialised adult.  both are socially constructed. used as an agreement to define something objective. << is what makes "an unsocialized child's character more authentic than that of a socialized adult".

:shrug:


--------------------
Not all drugs are good, Some are great.




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Re: Is there a such thing as an authentic character? [Re: Poid]
    #13724360 -

Poid said:
deCypher said:
A character can be more authentic than another, certainly.

How so? In order for one character to be more authentic than another, it must be more original, and it must not be as much of an imitation; the problem here is that all characters are unoriginal (since they are all based on something, like culture for example), and they are all imitations.

I don't see how one character can be more authentic than another, because, IMO, all characters are completely unoriginal.

That's a pretty shit way to look at fiction.

All characters are original unless they are so broadly drawn that they leave the realm of persona and enter the realm of archetype or allegory.  They are original because they are the product of a mental synthesis carried out by one person, with her or his own years of experience that cannot be replicated or reproduced.  Some components of originality in a character are the depth to which the reader is able to relate to the character emotionally, the verisimilitude of the character (that is, could this be a real, flesh-and-blood person, or does he reek of being a mere device of a plot?), the idiosyncratic tendencies of the character, and the unique knowledge that the character demonstrates (e.g. some vast insight into an obscure sphere of knowledge).  These and other attributes separate the characters in great works of literature from those in hack works of fiction.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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Re: Is there a such thing as an authentic character? [Re: Lion]
    #13724543 -

authentic character or authentic personality?


--------------------
Jesus loves you.

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Re: Is there a such thing as an authentic character? [Re: andrewss]
    #13724608 -

It seems there are parallel discussions since OP did not clarify which definition he meant, but in the post I responded to he was talking about literary characters.

As to the other kind of character: I think that everyone cultivates her or his character, some more consciously than others.  I like meeting people who have designed their personalities with a conscious aesthetic and personal ethic in mind, instead of being unquestioningly molded by the forces of socialization.  I think the former is more authentic than the latter, though neither is wrong or disingenuous per se.

"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players;
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts..."


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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Re: Is there a such thing as an authentic character? [Re: Lion]
    #13724743 -

Lion said:
Poid said:
deCypher said:
A character can be more authentic than another, certainly.

How so? In order for one character to be more authentic than another, it must be more original, and it must not be as much of an imitation; the problem here is that all characters are unoriginal (since they are all based on something, like culture for example), and they are all imitations.

I don't see how one character can be more authentic than another, because, IMO, all characters are completely unoriginal.

That's a pretty shit way to look at fiction.

I'm not talking about fiction.


Lion said:
It seems there are parallel discussions since OP did not clarify which definition he meant, but in the post I responded to he was talking about literary characters.

Yes I did, and no I wasn't.


Lion said:
I think the former is more authentic than the latter, though neither is wrong or disingenuous per se.

In what way is the former more authentic than the latter, and why do you think neither of them are disingenuous?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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