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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Authenticity of Carlos Cantaneda's Works [Re: Fospher]
    #5140345 - 01/04/06 09:24 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

How are you sure that the knowledge is so deep and valid that it couldn't be thrown together with his imagination?

If it's as deep as you claim it is, would it not require a lifetime or more to validate, to see if it's as wonderful as all that?

Yet you are able to know that this knowledge is powerful and valid, simply by reading a few books?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Authenticity of Carlos Cantaneda's Works [Re: Phluck]
    #5140364 - 01/04/06 09:31 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I know the knowledge is valid because I have tested it out in my life.

Still his books are not the only place to come across this information. The style in which he wrote it captured my imagination when I was quite young and gave me a direction I was willing to work with. Other than that his books have no special value to me.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineFospher
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Re: Authenticity of Carlos Cantaneda's Works [Re: Phluck]
    #5140410 - 01/04/06 09:44 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Ah, I wish it was as simple. The awesomeness of Castaneda's work is not just my opinion, however, it is the general consensus of generations of readers. CC was as big of an idol in the cultural movement of the 60s as Leary or Kesey - he's no new age hack.

He wrote 10 books on the subject! Surely if he was working with his subconsious alone, he wouldntve been able to write over 3000 pages worth of info.


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010001100100001001000101!


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Authenticity of Carlos Cantaneda's Works [Re: Icelander]
    #5140466 - 01/04/06 09:59 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I hate to be a "me too" guy, but here it is: Me too! In my opinion the acid test of validity is "does a work contain practical ideas?". I have proven to myself time and again that these works do.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Authenticity of Carlos Cantaneda's Works [Re: Fospher]
    #5140505 - 01/04/06 10:08 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

"CC was as big of an idol in the cultural movement of the 60s as Leary or Kesey"

To ascribe Castaneda this importance...to idolize him...goes against everything his writings promote. I understand the spirit in which you said this, but know that "Castaneda" maintained near complete anonymity until his death. Many people do not realize that Carlos Castaneda was an invented name. There is some dispute over what his previous history was before migrating to the U.S. No one related to him in South America has ever been definitively located or interviewed. I maintain that Carlos Castaneda was just as fictional as Don Juan...or just as real maybe. He maintained his lack of personal history to the grave.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineCubenisseur
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Re: Authenticity of Carlos Cantaneda's Works [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5140510 - 01/04/06 10:08 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I too have read his books as a young man and was greatly inpired and enlightened by the reading. I also put many things into practice that were in the book as well as things that were in Victor Sanchez' book(sp)The Teachings of Don Carlos...there was also a book called something like, "Toltek Warriors" where another guy claimed to have also been taught by Don Juan. I read that book and felt that it was spot on.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Authenticity of Carlos Cantaneda's Works [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5140515 - 01/04/06 10:10 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

That's pretty strange in itself.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Authenticity of Carlos Cantaneda's Works [Re: Icelander]
    #5140522 - 01/04/06 10:12 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Not at all. It just shows he lived this philosophy.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Authenticity of Carlos Cantaneda's Works [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5140537 - 01/04/06 10:16 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
?Personal history must be constantly renewed by telling parents, relatives, and friends everything one does. On the other hand, for the warrior who has no personal history, no explanations are needed; nobody is angry or disillusioned with his acts. And above all, no one pins him down with their thoughts and their expectations.?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineFospher
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Re: Authenticity of Carlos Cantaneda's Works [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5140548 - 01/04/06 10:17 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
"CC was as big of an idol in the cultural movement of the 60s as Leary or Kesey"

To ascribe Castaneda this importance...to idolize him...goes against everything his writings promote. I understand the spirit in which you said this, but know that "Castaneda" maintained near complete anonymity until his death. Many people do not realize that Carlos Castaneda was an invented name. There is some dispute over what his previous history was before migrating to the U.S. No one related to him in South America has ever been definitively located or interviewed. I maintain that Carlos Castaneda was just as fictional as Don Juan...or just as real maybe. He maintained his lack of personal history to the grave.




Just because he is an idol doesnt mean I, in particular, idolize him. He was a very powerful figure in introducing the concept of shamanism to the western world. The reason I said this was to undermine personal opinion of personal bias of the books' power or infuence that Phluck perceived I was implying.

And CC wasnt his real name? Not what wikipedia thinks:

Quote:

Carlos Castaneda (previously Casta?eda) was born in Peru on December 25, 1925 and died in Los Angeles on April 27, 1998. He wrote that he was born in S?o Paulo, Brazil on Christmas Day in 1931, but immigration records show that he was born 6 years earlier in Cajamarca, Peru. He anglicized his name by changing the "?" (in Casta?eda) into "n".




I suppose it doesnt make much difference though.


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010001100100001001000101!


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Authenticity of Carlos Cantaneda's Works [Re: Icelander]
    #5140633 - 01/04/06 10:31 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

But for those who took the challenge to any degree, weather they were "real" or fiction was not important.

Is not the integrity of a Warrior of utmost importance? If the author declares fiction as fact, then he certainly is not following the Way. Words coming from a fraud may have value, but carry little weight.

I am not the best racquetball player around (though pretty damn good), but I easily sign up students because they can see what I do, I am honest about my ability, and embody the principles that I teach.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflinePhluck
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Registered: 04/11/99
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Re: Authenticity of Carlos Cantaneda's Works [Re: Fospher]
    #5140663 - 01/04/06 10:40 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Ah, I wish it was as simple. The awesomeness of Castaneda's work is not just my opinion, however, it is the general consensus of generations of readers. CC was as big of an idol in the cultural movement of the 60s as Leary or Kesey - he's no new age hack.

He wrote 10 books on the subject! Surely if he was working with his subconsious alone, he wouldntve been able to write over 3000 pages worth of info.


Miss Read has had many fans over generations as well, and she wrote what? 50 novels?

How many books did Isaac Asimov write? Like 200?

Just writing a lot and having lots of fans doesn't mean you've tapped into a deep truth, it means you've written in a compelling way, and you enjoy writing.

Lots of people have written WAY more than he did, simply writing huge amounts doesn't mean you're using something beyond your imagination.

Just because something feels like it's right, doesn't mean it is. It just means it feels like its right.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Registered: 06/14/04
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Re: Authenticity of Carlos Cantaneda's Works [Re: Swami]
    #5140665 - 01/04/06 10:40 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

His real name was Ceasar Aranna. The Wikipedia entry has changed recently as it reflected this as recently as 6 months ago....remember personal history? This is totally in keeping with what I said. If he had NO personal history why would it be in Wikipedia? An entry has been made in his favor recently apparently. Do some research and you will find I speak truth. Start with the books that have been written about Castaneda while he was alive...start with DeMille who hated Castaneda.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Authenticity of Carlos Cantaneda's Works [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5140684 - 01/04/06 10:44 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

"Living with a foster family he next studied parapsychology at Los Angeles City College from 1955 to 1959. Also in 1959 he became an American citizen and that is when he took the name Castaneda."

"In contrast Castaneda claimed that he was born at S?o Paulo, Brazil, into a well-known family of Italian descent which was not true. He claimed to his wife that he had been born on "Christmas day" in Italy, and that his mother had finished school in "Switzerland." Instead his mother as Times Magazine team found out, was raised in Lima just like his father."

This is more accurate, but has flaws it credits his father with the name Ceasar...from this:
http://sociologyesoscience.com/esoterica/castan.html


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Authenticity of Carlos Cantaneda's Works [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5140686 - 01/04/06 10:44 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

LIke Icey said, the three of us (and others) have only had this conversation a dozen times now. This is only possible because we have erased the personal history of the other 11 times. :lol:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Authenticity of Carlos Cantaneda's Works [Re: Swami]
    #5140697 - 01/04/06 10:46 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I agree in it's futility.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
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Re: Authenticity of Carlos Cantaneda's Works [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5140714 - 01/04/06 10:50 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I can get away with it because I claim no special shamanic philosophy, but Don Juan would frown on you and the Iceman frivolously wasting time in such an anti-warriorlike manner. You must go back and reread the part about death stalking us.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Authenticity of Carlos Cantaneda's Works [Re: Swami]
    #5140721 - 01/04/06 10:51 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I agree...I am contributing to the conspiracy of the immortals...


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Authenticity of Carlos Cantaneda's Works [Re: Swami]
    #5140731 - 01/04/06 10:53 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

If I was held accountable for living the perfect warrior life, I would have to throw myself on the mercy of the court.

As I have stated before It's a life time journey and I am still a beginner.  :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Posts: 4,587
Re: Authenticity of Carlos Cantaneda's Works [Re: Icelander]
    #5141391 - 01/05/06 01:02 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I am Ceasar Aranna.
The brujo I referred to as Don Juan Matus is real!
He is currently standing on his head in the Gobi desert while running for president.
You can contact him at (815) 443-2350
(You may need to buy a calling card.)


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