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OfflineFospher
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Re: Authenticity of Carlos Cantaneda's Works [Re: Swami]
    #5139457 - 01/04/06 06:09 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
the arguments seem petty and baseless (such as Castaneda being 'too dense').
That is not what I am talking about. There are major timeline discrepancies wherein he claimed to be in the Sonoran Desert when he was actually in LA. (Please - no bi-location excuse!)





Whenever Carlos visited Don Juan, he always found him, whether he went to his house in the Sierras, or the one of his benefactor in Central Mexico. Don Juan was using his 'double' to be at two locations. Why cant I use this cause, with the grounds of the book it seems perfectly natural.

Quote:


There are anthropological claims that go against all other sources and nonsensical claims such as the smoking of mushrooms.





It says nowhere in the book that those were psilocybin mushrooms, thus the heat properties of the chemical are irrelevant. And if they were, he had a special way of smoking them, he didnt apply heat directly.

Quote:


And you know this how - because he lived a normal life span? Are con-artists supposed to die younger?




No, not at all what Im saying. Im talking about his biography, he lived the impeccable lifestyle of a Toltec warrior until his very death. It's pretty hard to keep up a single act for 72 years.

Have you ever read any of the books in full? There's so much timeless wisdom in them, and your assumption is that this is just Castaneda's train of thought taken to paper hoping to make for a quick buck?

Is you argument that Don Juan never existed, or simply that some events were a little exxagerated?

Have you ever messed up a location or timeline of an event when you're telling a story?


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Authenticity of Carlos Cantaneda's Works [Re: Fospher]
    #5139474 - 01/04/06 06:13 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Why cant I use this cause, with the grounds of the book it seems perfectly natural.
So Carlos could already bilocate before he even knew what it was? Try some logic.

It says nowhere in the book that those were psilocybin mushrooms
And where in my post did you hallucinate that?

he lived the impeccable lifestyle of a Toltec warrior until his very death.
Disregarding the fact that a Yaqui is not a Toltec, once again - how do YOU know this?


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Authenticity of Carlos Cantaneda's Works [Re: Fospher]
    #5139486 - 01/04/06 06:16 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Have you ever messed up a location or timeline of an event when you're telling a story?

Not when keeping a daily journal. Are you saying he was a good novelist or a very sloppy anthroplogist?


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Authenticity of Carlos Cantaneda's Works [Re: Fospher]
    #5139506 - 01/04/06 06:21 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

and your assumption is that this is just Castaneda's train of thought taken to paper hoping to make for a quick buck

Seems you have learned little from them the way your emotions run rampant. I made no comment as to the why of the books, now did I? Did you attend the Castaneda School of Fabrication?


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OfflineFospher
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Re: Authenticity of Carlos Cantaneda's Works [Re: Swami]
    #5139541 - 01/04/06 06:31 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Why cant I use this cause, with the grounds of the book it seems perfectly natural.
So Carlos could already bilocate before he even knew what it was? Try some logic.




He was told about the double in the third book, I believe, out of his 10. Does it say that he contradicted locations in his first or second issue?

Quote:


It says nowhere in the book that those were psilocybin mushrooms
And where in my post did you hallucinate that?




>>

Quote:

nonsensical claims such as the smoking of mushrooms.




If it wasnt to the psilocybin heat temperature you were referring to then, what are you talking about?

Quote:


he lived the impeccable lifestyle of a Toltec warrior until his very death.
Disregarding the fact that a Yaqui is not a Toltec, once again - how do YOU know this?




I am making an observation based on the short interviews that he had had, the way he spoke, the way he forbid audio and video equipment to not keep himself stagnant, and so forth. No one can really know a man, Im making a decision on his character based on multiple views on the person.


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OfflineFospher
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Re: Authenticity of Carlos Cantaneda's Works [Re: Swami]
    #5139571 - 01/04/06 06:39 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
and your assumption is that this is just Castaneda's train of thought taken to paper hoping to make for a quick buck

Seems you have learned little from them the way your emotions run rampant.




Low blow! Although I dont see how I lashed out at you from that comment.

Quote:


I made no comment as to the why of the books, now did I?




I'll take that one back, looking over your post, you didnt say it. I mustve made a mental association with another reading.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Authenticity of Carlos Cantaneda's Works [Re: Fospher]
    #5139609 - 01/04/06 06:49 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Several imaginings and false assumptions unveil a wandering mind. Do YOU follow the teachings of impeccability or just like to be entertained by the books? Knowledge not absorbed is not knowledge.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Authenticity of Carlos Cantaneda's Works [Re: Swami]
    #5139633 - 01/04/06 06:56 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

I have found it a lifetime of effort to live by the teachings of Don Juan and others. I have failed to perfect it to any major degree. I have been grateful however for all the little gains I have made. It has improved my experience of life somewhat. :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblemecreateme
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Re: Authenticity of Carlos Cantaneda's Works [Re: Swami]
    #5139647 - 01/04/06 07:00 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

nonsensical claims such as the smoking of mushrooms.




So what did you mean? :smirk:


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No ONE wants to know the ultimate TRUTH, as soon as YOU find IT out, YOU want to forget IT.

You are everything's way of feeling itself.

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InvisibleI_was_the_walrus
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Re: Authenticity of Carlos Cantaneda's Works [Re: Swami]
    #5139656 - 01/04/06 07:02 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

as if when one takes a step in magic they need to flip out a detective's badge or show their diploma.





Im gonna have to go with this one on the discussion. So maybe things happened, maybe things didnt happen. Its all going in circles, and I think its become a personal battle over you two as to who is right...who is going to reign supreme in some pointless battle. You both have good points, but none of you are 100% correct.

Its about the idea of the book.


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OfflineFospher
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Re: Authenticity of Carlos Cantaneda's Works [Re: Icelander]
    #5139681 - 01/04/06 07:12 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Have you, or anyone else here for that matter seen this?

Enigma of a Sorceror : The Carlos Castaneda Movie

And if you have, would you suggest it?


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OfflineFospher
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Re: Authenticity of Carlos Cantaneda's Works [Re: Swami]
    #5139690 - 01/04/06 07:15 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Several imaginings and false assumptions unveil a wandering mind. Do YOU follow the teachings of impeccability or just like to be entertained by the books? Knowledge not absorbed is not knowledge.




Since when was this thread about me, or what I follow?

I am indeed a wandering mind, I never fully accept what I read or hear, no matter how powerful it is. Nothing is 100%, nothing is pure.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Authenticity of Carlos Cantaneda's Works [Re: Icelander]
    #5139774 - 01/04/06 07:37 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

I have found it a lifetime of effort to live by the teachings of Don Juan
I aspire to be a con-man as well.  :crazy:

I have been grateful however for all the little gains I have made.
Fine, but there are no degrees of bi-location. Progress is impossible in certain arenas; either one can or cannot perform such a feat.


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OfflineFospher
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Re: Authenticity of Carlos Cantaneda's Works [Re: Swami]
    #5139820 - 01/04/06 07:44 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
I made no comment as to the why of the books, now did I?




Quote:

I aspire to be a con-man as well.




...And you just did.

50 years (considering he started his apprecentiship at 20 something) of fooling people is quite a feat for a con-man, especially with no partners in crime!  :frown:


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Authenticity of Carlos Cantaneda's Works [Re: Fospher]
    #5139906 - 01/04/06 08:01 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

It's not difficult to get people to believe something... and people doubted him for a long time, he certainly didn't fool people forever.

He's a very popular character, people who like his books and want to believe will believe no matter how unlikely it is to be true.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Authenticity of Carlos Cantaneda's Works [Re: Swami]
    #5139919 - 01/04/06 08:04 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

"Do YOU follow the teachings of impeccability or just like to be entertained by the books? Knowledge not absorbed is not knowledge."

That is an excellent statement that embodies how I feel about these works. As a young man I read them for entertainment...as a 25 - 30 something I read them for knowledge and meaning, and I was inspired and influenced beyond what words can say. It pushed me away from a direction that was leading quickly to my death, and inspired me to seek life. I DO know fiction when I read it, and these books I would happily declare fiction...just as I would happily declare the Christian Bible fiction...or The Eldar Edda fiction. That does not mean that these texts do not contain valid teachings. The ideal of the dynamic, impeccable warrior who takes only what is necessary and pressures his world little is a guiding vision to me.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Authenticity of Carlos Cantaneda's Works [Re: redgreenvines]
    #5139927 - 01/04/06 08:06 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

"as if when one takes a step in magic they need to flip out a detective's badge or show their diploma."

No diploma or badge? What about a secret decoder ring? I got one when I joined the Carlos Castaneda fan club.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Re: Authenticity of Carlos Cantaneda's Works [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5139935 - 01/04/06 08:09 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

That's all that is important. It's no surprise that folks want to be distracted from that part. If you are challenged by something in these books it's much easier to forget it if you can find a way to discredit the author. Then you can go on your merry way. But for those who took the challenge to any degree, weather they were "real" or fiction was not important.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineFospher
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Re: Authenticity of Carlos Cantaneda's Works [Re: Phluck]
    #5139936 - 01/04/06 08:09 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Im sorry, but that sounds like a blanket statement. It's an ageless fact that many can play upon's people beliefs and fantasies to create a following, but how can one conjur so much knowledge with so much detail out of thin air? Imagination only goes so far my friend...


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Authenticity of Carlos Cantaneda's Works [Re: Icelander]
    #5139955 - 01/04/06 08:12 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Correct. No one has ever defined philosophy as hard boiled fact.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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