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Re: Why reincarnation doesn't make sense... [Re: Kickle]
    #13498525 -

Kickle said:
Because they are energetic imprints. Energy doesn't disappear when you die, it just takes a new form.


Imprints are a form. My understanding is that reincarnation is something that happens during a physical lifetime, to the ego. "I'm King of the World!!" - shit happens - "I'm not the King of the World.":sad: But then the ego is reincarnated. "I'm King of the World!!" -shit happens- etc. The personality is born again and again until such time that it dies, and is no longer born again.

There is another process in which ego can be born into other physical forms. Say a crazy Muslim preaches death to infidels, but then looses his religion. But that personality was also transferred to his students, so that personality lives on even after his death.

And there is the natural egoic nature of being an animal. It is transferred through procreation.

As I understand, a fully enlightened individual would no longer be able to manifest any of these forms.:eek: Same with a dead body.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Why reincarnation dosen't make sense... [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #13498579 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
However, all your thoughts and habits from this life will regroup (they're called skandas) regroup so the new person will share your traits.


And you know this how? (Not that I expect a real answer.)


Well the Op was about how reincarnation is illogical and I was just pointing out how the theory is internally consistent.

As for how i know, I've read a whole bunch of spiritual literature and decided that it totally makes sense. And then combined with personal experiences that confirm to me that what certain spiritual teachers say is very valid. Does that count as a real answer  :kodama: ?


--------------------
check out my music!
drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss

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Re: Why reincarnation dosen't make sense... [Re: g00ru]
    #13498727 -

Quote:
As for how i know, I've read a whole bunch of spiritual literature and decided that it totally makes sense. And then combined with personal experiences that confirm to me that what certain spiritual teachers say is very valid. Does that count as a real answer  ?


No. Whether something makes sense to you or not is not any sort of metric of its validity.

Where did the spiritual literature authors get the idea from?


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Re: Why reincarnation dosen't make sense... [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #13498749 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
Where did the spiritual literature authors get the idea from?


"God", duh. :smirk:


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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Why reincarnation dosen't make sense... [Re: Poid]
    #13498846 -

10 years now without an answer as to where these sorts of beliefs come from. The answer is either silence, a tangent or a circular argument.


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Re: Why reincarnation dosen't make sense... [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #13498865 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
10 years now without an answer as to where these sorts of beliefs come from.

Just hang in there, buddy, it'll come soon, just like Armageddon/Judgment Day & the Second Coming! :sip:


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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Why reincarnation dosen't make sense... [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #13498878 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
Where did the spiritual literature authors get the idea from?


Their own heart, which is God as poid pointed out. But also, these people meditate for insane amounts of time, and have much clearer perceptions than you or I.  If you don't think meditating a whole bunch would bring unknown clarity to your perceptions, I don't know what to tell you.

You know that process where your awareness evolves and you become more conscious of the present moment? Spiritual masters are like 10000X your average intelligent person in this regard.  They can make observations about reincarnation and stuff just from observing the present moment.  Something you can't do if you have a bunch of bullshit materialist assumptions.


--------------------
check out my music!
drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss

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Re: Why reincarnation dosen't make sense... [Re: g00ru]
    #13498908 -

guruu said:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Where did the spiritual literature authors get the idea from?


Their own heart, which is God as poid pointed out.

And the heart is a reliable source of accurate information, because..?


guruu said:
But also, these people meditate for insane amounts of time, and have much clearer perceptions than you or I.  If you don't think meditating a whole bunch would bring unknown clarity to your perceptions, I don't know what to tell you.

They, and their perceptions are irrelevant--what matters is the claims and supporting arguments they put forth.


guruu said:
You know that process where your awareness evolves and you become more conscious of the present moment? Spiritual masters are like 10000X your average intelligent person in this regard.  They can make observations about reincarnation and stuff just from observing the present moment.

Alright, I'm gonna go ahead and ask--how in the fuck do you know that?


guruu said:
Something you can't do if you have a bunch of bullshit materialist assumptions.

Why not?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Why reincarnation dosen't make sense... [Re: g00ru]
    #13499352 -

Quote:
Their own heart, which is God as poid pointed out.


Like Bush and Obama?

Quote:
But also, these people meditate for insane amounts of time, and have much clearer perceptions than you or I. 


You have absolutely no idea how much time I did or did not spend meditating.

Quote:
If you don't think meditating a whole bunch would bring unknown clarity to your perceptions, I don't know what to tell you.


Hwy would I think that? Based upon what?

Quote:
You know that process where your awareness evolves and you become more conscious of the present moment?


Awareness may be honed, but it does not evolve.

Quote:
Spiritual masters are like 10000X your average intelligent person in this regard.


Now you are really fabricating at maximum intensity - and of course, you have zero backing for such a statement.

Quote:
They can make observations about reincarnation and stuff just from observing the present moment. 


Once again, how do you know this? (How many times must I kepp asking the same question?)

Quote:
Something you can't do if you have a bunch of bullshit materialist assumptions.


Now you are travelling deep into ad hominem territory - a sure-fire sign that you have nothing substantive.

:failboat:


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Re: Why reincarnation dosen't make sense... [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #13499414 -

"Now you are travelling deep into ad hominem territory - a sure-fire sign that you have nothing substantive."

You should kick his ass like you did the 7 armed ninjas that outweighed you by 40 pounds.


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I am a chronic liar.

:etjesus: :whacker: :coleman: :awewtf:

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Re: Why reincarnation dosen't make sense... [Re: Seanfu]
    #13499439 -

That is deep into strawman territory - another clear example of having nothing to contribute. :thumbup:


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Re: Why reincarnation dosen't make sense... [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #13499667 -

I'll take Newton, Darwin, Einstein, Hawking or Sagan over any spiritual master any day.


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Mushrooms | LSD | Salvia | JWH-018 | AM-2201 |  4-AcO-DMT | 2C-E | 2C-I | 5-MeO-DMTs | 5-MeO-DALT | 5-MeO-MIPT | 25C-NBOMe | MDPV | Methylone | Mephedrone | Nitrous Oxide | Alcohol | DXM | Methoxetamine |  4-MeO-PCP | Xanax | Valium | Phenazepam |  Ambien | Lunesta

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Re: Why reincarnation dosen't make sense... [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #13499673 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
That is deep into strawman territory - another clear example of having nothing to contribute. :thumbup:


This is a contribution ^^^


--------------------
I am a chronic liar.

:etjesus: :whacker: :coleman: :awewtf:

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Re: Why reincarnation dosen't make sense... [Re: CycleThoughts]
    #13499678 -

CycleThoughts said:
I'll take Newton, Darwin, Einstein, Hawking or Sagan over any spiritual master any day.


:thumbup:


--------------------
I am a chronic liar.

:etjesus: :whacker: :coleman: :awewtf:

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Re: Why reincarnation dosen't make sense... [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #13499740 -

Reincarnation always seemed like the Catholic concept of transubstantiation to me. It's a piece of bread, but it's not bread, it's actually jesus. It doesn't look like jesus and it's not just a matter of being the same essence or a representative for jesus, it's actually and wholely the flesh of god. In the same way no one will ever really clarify what it is that's incarnating. They'll say there is no soul, and the ego dies, and everything after that turns into this elaborate insinuation that you're somehow lesser if you don't know what it is that they're talking about. It's an elephant that's been in the room for thousands of years, and at this point most people don't seem to be willing to acknowledge how completely absurd it all is for fear of ridicule.

I think the more we can do to cultivate an environment where it's acceptable to acknowledge when you're wrong, the faster we can put these nonsense ideas behind us.


--------------------
The Prophecy!

Learn To Code

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Re: Why reincarnation dosen't make sense... [Re: g00ru]
    #13499842 -

From what I can tell, there is no clear dividing line between ego
guruu said:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Where did the spiritual literature authors get the idea from?


Their own heart, which is God as poid pointed out. But also, these people meditate for insane amounts of time, and have much clearer perceptions than you or I.  If you don't think meditating a whole bunch would bring unknown clarity to your perceptions, I don't know what to tell you.

You know that process where your awareness evolves and you become more conscious of the present moment? Spiritual masters are like 10000X your average intelligent person in this regard.  They can make observations about reincarnation and stuff just from observing the present moment.  Something you can't do if you have a bunch of bullshit materialist assumptions.


What spiritual literature, and what authors? We can talk about what so and so said, but if we're really looking, let's take a look at what has been documented because that is the only source outside our own observations. Of course, any author can be questioned, but the point is, do we really know the source and what is says? Or, are we accepting a romantic Western notion of reincarnation?

Could be important, not just a neener neener neener.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Why reincarnation dosen't make sense... [Re: CycleThoughts]
    #13499923 -

CycleThoughts said:
Kickle said:
Because they are energetic imprints. Energy doesn't disappear when you die, it just takes a new form.


So if it takes a "new" form, why would they carry over?  Wouldn't it be something new entirely?  If so, reincarnation sounds more like the natural recycling of the universes atoms.  It's not philosophical at all, just scientifically proven.


Why can a memory linger for years, or even a lifetime? It changes form many times, usually corresponding to the current frame of reference, but that same energetic imprint remains. It exists and is recognizable even in its new form.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: Why reincarnation dosen't make sense... [Re: Kickle]
    #13499994 -

Kickle said:
CycleThoughts said:
Kickle said:
Because they are energetic imprints. Energy doesn't disappear when you die, it just takes a new form.


So if it takes a "new" form, why would they carry over?  Wouldn't it be something new entirely?  If so, reincarnation sounds more like the natural recycling of the universes atoms.  It's not philosophical at all, just scientifically proven.


Why can a memory linger for years, or even a lifetime? It changes form many times, usually corresponding to the current frame of reference, but that same energetic imprint remains. It exists and is recognizable even in its new form.



All existing within the same brain.


--------------------
Mushrooms | LSD | Salvia | JWH-018 | AM-2201 |  4-AcO-DMT | 2C-E | 2C-I | 5-MeO-DMTs | 5-MeO-DALT | 5-MeO-MIPT | 25C-NBOMe | MDPV | Methylone | Mephedrone | Nitrous Oxide | Alcohol | DXM | Methoxetamine |  4-MeO-PCP | Xanax | Valium | Phenazepam |  Ambien | Lunesta

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Re: Why reincarnation dosen't make sense... [Re: CycleThoughts]
    #13500020 -

How is that a refutation? Its like me saying that all energy happens in the same universe. A lot of things happen in the brain. A lot of things happen in the universe. Energy imprints in the universe as well as in the mind.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: Why reincarnation dosen't make sense... [Re: Kickle]
    #13500024 -



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