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Re: Evolutionary law Vs. Civilization, humanity and ethics [Re: Freedom]
    #12943774 -

1)  You are assuming that civilization is somehow unnatural. "Man is a political animal."

2)  There is a theory that the rapid evolution of the brain happened when humans found plentiful sources of protein.  This meant that more intelligent/less physical individuals had a better chance of surviving until sexual maturity.    With less time being spent on gathering food the attributes of these individuals became more valuable within a social group.

3) There have been mass extinctions of species before, dinosaurs and all that.  While our effect on the planet isn't great, new species will evolve because that is what happens.  We will either work out a way to sustain our environment or we will suffer massive degradation in our living conditions.

4)  Do you really think people had better lives when they lived as savages?  Are you joking??

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Re: Evolutionary law Vs. Civilization, humanity and ethics [Re: Freedom]
    #12943781 -

Wise Toad said:
How long have we been evolving hmmm


Everyone has been evolving for an equal amount of time...chimps and ants and cheetahs are all as perfectly suited as you...

Wise Toad said:
Say we keep doing what we have been doing and we bring it from millions of species to thousands, the life on this planet would be very unstable and what if a catastrophe occurs like the one that killed off the dinosaurs, or the ice age, without those diverse species that could survive such hostile temps or events there would be no animal life to rise back up as mammals did after the dinos were gone.



...? hostile temps? what are you talking about? do you think an ice age would kill us off? let alone the microorganisms that reside under feet and miles of ice and earth around the globe?

I agree we need to pull the reigns on global warming and such but we need facts and less doom and gloom

Wise Toad said:
yes people do still get killed by animals but how many people have died from war or crime recently, the ratio of animal deaths to human deaths is in our favor


people have always been violent, without a large society it would be either starve, be eaten, die in a smaller scale fight/war or not be born...



Freedom said:
You must be from the city. City folk always think predators are gonna eat you.



You must have never been to a country without all the biggest predators gone... Have you ever seen a wild lion up close? Have you ever seen an elephant charge at you or a bear just yards away?

its a bit of a rush friend...

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Re: Evolutionary law Vs. Civilization, humanity and ethics [Re: XDS]
    #12943829 -

1. The fact that civilization exists at all is astounding,for instance many of the peoples that we imposed our culture upon chose death over changing to our way of life, ours is the most hard working ways of life on earth as the food our agricultural ancestors and hence we work to grow takes long hours and hard work as opposed to living within a carrying capacity and having food already growing out of the earth waiting for us to eat it as all other animals lived before we came around.
2.interesting, yet thats not to say intelligent individuals could not easily exist within hunter/gatherer lifestyle as that is what the hunting aspect is based on, such as being able to track animals, set traps, make weapons, etc.
3. I was using the dinosaurs dying as a reference to the fact that catastrophes occurring on the earth are not uncommon as time goes on, even if they do occur we would survive, but the way we exterminate species to make way for us is on the road to making the society of life on earth unstable, thereby being unable to survive these catastrophes
4.Savages huh, society has done its work well on you, think about living with very few hours of work(if it can be called that) a day to survive and all the other reasons stated in my previous posts.

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Re: Evolutionary law Vs. Civilization, humanity and ethics [Re: Wise Toad]
    #12943853 -

I think you are living in a dream world if you think humans used to just go around hunting for a couple of hours and then chilling out.  I am sure they worked much harder and had much less pleasant lives than us.

We don't work long hours to produce food now, in fact it takes hardly any time at all.  I mean I earn enough to feed myself within about 30 minutes.  We work to sustain and develop our civilization.

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Re: Evolutionary law Vs. Civilization, humanity and ethics [Re: Wise Toad]
    #12943862 -

yes we have all been evolving equally thats the whole point. the dark ages are a perfect example of hostile temps as it was a very minor cold shift that killed off large amounts of people, imagine a temp drop of 20 or more, that would be devastating, in the first place I was only using that as an example of catastrophe to prove the point that if we were to make the biosphere unstable it would wipe out animal life. it would be either starve, be eaten, die in a smaller scale fight/war or not be born... who would be starving if we were below the carrying capacity, sorry to brake the illusions but human predation just doesn't occur on a regular basis in the wild, im afraid its the other way around. Inter tribe fighting is territorial not all out war to wipe out other societies so there would be no smaller scale war. Who would mind not being born?

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Re: Evolutionary law Vs. Civilization, humanity and ethics [Re: Wise Toad]
    #12943868 -

Yes hunter gatherers got what they needed from nature easily, and goddam did they have a lot of free time on their hands(thank you 7th grade ancient hist.) To sustain and develop our civilization to what end? Needless colonization of land and spreading when we could just be as you put it chillin.

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Re: Evolutionary law Vs. Civilization, humanity and ethics [Re: Wise Toad]
    #12943880 -

I would go back and read more on hunter/gatherer lifestyles.  It is not an easy lifestyle by any means or we would still be doing it.

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Re: Evolutionary law Vs. Civilization, humanity and ethics [Re: XDS]
    #12943907 -

The fact that we in particular are not still doing it isn't a justification of our lifestyle or a way of making any point whatsoever on hunter gatherer lifestyle, the only reason that we live as we do is because those who started our culture fooled themselves into thinking it was the right and only way to live so they spread it, having more efficient means than laid back H/G because they had such a high population resulting from all the food surpluses which in turn resulted in more agriculture(heightened food production/heightened birth rate going in a cycle) they were able to kill off those who opposed them, think about all the genocides we have committed as a culture saying that because they do not live like us they deserve to die(Native Americans just to start)

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Re: Evolutionary law Vs. Civilization, humanity and ethics [Re: Wise Toad]
    #12943931 -

Well its been an interesting argument, im headed out for a trip to Atlanta early tomorrow morning from this saturday to the next so im gonna :sleep:. :peace: :leaving: :wave:

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Re: Evolutionary law Vs. Civilization, humanity and ethics [Re: Wise Toad]
    #12943932 -

Ok so you are prepared to give up all trappings of civilization.  You should go and join a tribe somewhere.  But you won't because it is just a fantasy as is the idea that their life is easier, just going out for a couple of hours with a bow and arrow then sitting back or dancing round a fire.

What you are asking is for humans to limit themselves to one particular lifestyle.  You would be consigning all of our great achievements to a rubbish pile.

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Re: Evolutionary law Vs. Civilization, humanity and ethics [Re: Wise Toad]
    #12944030 -

Wise Toad said:
Well its been an interesting argument, im headed out for a trip to Atlanta early tomorrow morning from this saturday to the next so im gonna :sleep:. :peace: :leaving: :wave:



:lol: I thought you hated civilization :lol:

But have a nice trip :hug:

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Re: Evolutionary law Vs. Civilization, humanity and ethics [Re: Budske]
    #12944206 -

Avocado, avalanche, adam ant, fancy pants


--------------------
Ronda Nina...

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Re: Evolutionary law Vs. Civilization, humanity and ethics [Re: Budske]
    #12944482 -

Budske said:
Perhaps your point is true for the national park thing, and I doubt they would just let you live there. But if you want to truly live somewhere off the land like your ancestors then sell your things that you own, find some cheap land in the rural south, I live by alot of it, and live off the land.Maybe even take friends with you and you can have a tribe...

If you cant afford that, there are countries that are accessible on every continent that have large jungles and forests.

Im just saying society has its perks which for me outweigh the detriments. When compared to living in the wilderness I would say the detriments outweigh the perks...

Ive thought about living in the wilderness alone myself many times, and I think I just might one day for a brief period of time, it sounds fun.


People raised in a culture without learning survival skills from birth would not be able to survive out in the wild.  People think they can just walk out there and survive in all the conditions and challenges that wilderness presents. It's a complete pipe dream. As someone who took survival training I know what I'm talking about. And most land, even jungle is claimed by some tribe as their personal territory. It would be the rarest of persons who would stand the slightest chance at this. Virtually impossible except for a very short time.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Evolutionary law Vs. Civilization, humanity and ethics [Re: Icelander]
    #12944664 -

Im almost willing to bet my life that OP just recently read ishmael, by Daniel Quinn.


--------------------
:eatingout:

Edited by NortonStPhallus (07/24/10 09:49 AM)

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Re: Evolutionary law Vs. Civilization, humanity and ethics [Re: NortonStPhallus]
    #12944724 -

I think that there are many things we can learn from tribal societys about how to about how to live our lives and structure our communitys, at the same time, it (ishmael) idolizes the lives of hunter-gatherers far too much. It absolutely is a hard life, its short and there is a constant struggle for food, and constant fear of disease. Women die in childbirth all the time, tribes war with each other. It is true that in some tribes life is also leisurely, but only for the men, they sit around all day and go hunting occasionally while the women spend all day gathering food.


--------------------
:eatingout:

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Re: Evolutionary law Vs. Civilization, humanity and ethics [Re: NortonStPhallus]
    #12944863 -

I think it has something to do with a desire for a more engaging experience of life.

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Re: Evolutionary law Vs. Civilization, humanity and ethics [Re: NortonStPhallus]
    #12944903 -

Definitely a mixed bag.  The big advantage they have imo is the connectedness within the tribe and less worry about the future.:whoa:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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